Does this sound like I need a valve adjustment? (videos)

[WildBlue]

Well, I'm getting the good ol' GS back on the streets after ~3 months of inactivity.  She's running well, except for a very annoying rattling noiose coming from the lower part of the engine it seems.  The noise is there with the engine idling, and is loudest when I'm accelerating from a stop.  It seems to disappear above ~3-4000 rpm, but it's possible that it just changes frequency and I can't hear it.  Here are three short videos I took today while trying to identify the origin of the noise:

Right side of the engine

Left side of the engine

Riding around the parking lot

Am I in urgent need of a valve adjustment?  btw, I'm at 12,400 miles (had it for the past ~3000 miles).

Thanks for the help!   

[leo]

OMG, that doesn't sound good. I wish I knew what you needed. 

[Kerry]

Are the exhaust header bolts tight?  (Where the exhaust pipes connect to the engine.)

[WildBlue]

Kerry, I saw your comments/picture on another thread regarding the exhaust header bolts, so I checked before I took that video.  They seem fine, at least I couldn't move the headers with my hand, but I'll double check with a wrench tomorrow. 

Come to think of it the noise does seem to be coming from the lower part of the engine, so it probably wouldn't be the valves would it?   

[Kerry]

Come to think of it the noise does seem to be coming from the lower part of the engine, so it probably wouldn't be the valves would it?   

It's driving me nuts, because the noise sounds so familiar and yet I can't put my finger on it.  (Insert memory disclaimer here for being over 40. )

But no, tight valves give more of a "tick" or "tap" sound.  This is a distinct "ping".  We need someone with engine and tranny tear-down experience.

[WildBlue]

This is a distinct "ping".  We need someone with engine and tranny tear-down experience.

Uh oh, this is already sounding like it might be major...  She's not about to fall apart is she? 

[Kerry]

Don't get me wrong!  I'm not declaring it to be a serious problem.  I'm just trying to identify the sound. 

[MarkusN]

You sure the soundtrack is not of a tractor?

Does not sound good. Pinging from the lower end almost certainly means major overhaul. My bet is on the plain bearings of the rods.
Other plain beraings that like to crap out are those of the balancer shaft, but that's is usually the result of an installation mistake when taking off the clutch cover.

You didn't happen to run her low on oil once? The GS engine is almost indestructible, but she's vindictive: run her low on oil once and she'll never forgive you.

[hmmmnz]

hey, mmm thats a familia noise, i can't place it though, does the noise lessen if you put more oil in it?
you best bet might be http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/suzuki-gs500-engine-frame-and-swingarm-and-exhaust_W0QQitemZ8076052233QQcategoryZ10534QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
£55 whats that in euros 80euros. or are you guys not on euros, your not are you??
it almost soulnds like piston slap like you have a bent connecting rod
good luck with it

[WildBlue]

You didn't happen to run her low on oil once? The GS engine is almost indestructible, but she's vindictive: run her low on oil once and she'll never forgive you.

Nah, I've always been careful about that.  There was some time when I actually ran her a little high on oil (not for long), but I doubt that'd hurt...?  I did switch to synthetic on my last oil change though, but I read that the GS is cool with that.

hey, mmm thats a familia noise, i can't place it though, does the noise lessen if you put more oil in it?
you best bet might be http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/suzuki-gs500-engine-frame-and-swingarm-and-exhaust_W0QQitemZ8076052233QQcategoryZ10534QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
£55 whats that in euros 80euros. or are you guys not on euros, your not are you??
it almost soulnds like piston slap like you have a bent connecting rod
good luck with it

Are you suggesting I might need to buy a new engine???  Or wait, you mean if it turns out to be a connecting rod right?  I'm not sure if more oil would lessen the noise, I checked the oil level this morning and it's just slightly under Full.  What would cause a rod to bend, other than lack of lubrication?   


Here's another bit of information that I just remembered.  Shortly before I injured my knee and stopped riding, I would hear a CLUNK when I went to start it first thing in the morning.  The clunk definitely came as I recall from the lower part of the engine, around where the black Suzuki cover is, and it only happened the first time I started it in the morning (engine cold).  My tachometer actually stopped working after one of these clunks - I've verified that the cable is in fact connected tightly at both ends, though I still need to check that it's not broken.  Now this tachometer thing could be a coincidence, but then again it might be related.

The clunk has been replaced by this pinging/rattling noise, which is more noticeable now than the last time I rode it, so it definitely seems to be getting worse.  Actually if I place my hand on the black cover I can feel a small vibration that seems to coincide with the pinging; I'll repeat this tomorrow just to be sure.

This is giving me a headache...   

[MarkusN]

Clunk from which side, left or right? Goats syndrome (disintegrating alternator wheel, left) or something loose in the impulse generator (right)?

If it's on the right, take off the small cover; no oil behind that, so that's easily checked.

I'm not familiar with the newer tachs. Does the 02 already have the electrical tach? If so, something might be wrong with your impulse generator.

Thinking aloud here: Ignition generator wheel off, causing extreme early ignition? that would explain the tractor-like sound and it going away at higher revs.

[Jason]

You didn't happen to run her low on oil once? The GS engine is almost indestructible, but she's vindictive: run her low on oil once and she'll never forgive you.

Nah, I've always been careful about that.  There was some time when I actually ran her a little high on oil (not for long), but I doubt that'd hurt...?  I did switch to synthetic on my last oil change though, but I read that the GS is cool with that.

hey, mmm thats a familia noise, i can't place it though, does the noise lessen if you put more oil in it?
you best bet might be http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/suzuki-gs500-engine-frame-and-swingarm-and-exhaust_W0QQitemZ8076052233QQcategoryZ10534QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
£55 whats that in euros 80euros. or are you guys not on euros, your not are you??
it almost soulnds like piston slap like you have a bent connecting rod
good luck with it

Are you suggesting I might need to buy a new engine???  Or wait, you mean if it turns out to be a connecting rod right?  I'm not sure if more oil would lessen the noise, I checked the oil level this morning and it's just slightly under Full.  What would cause a rod to bend, other than lack of lubrication?   


Here's another bit of information that I just remembered.  Shortly before I injured my knee and stopped riding, I would hear a CLUNK when I went to start it first thing in the morning.  The clunk definitely came as I recall from the lower part of the engine, around where the black Suzuki cover is, and it only happened the first time I started it in the morning (engine cold).  My tachometer actually stopped working after one of these clunks - I've verified that the cable is in fact connected tightly at both ends, though I still need to check that it's not broken.  Now this tachometer thing could be a coincidence, but then again it might be related.

The clunk has been replaced by this pinging/rattling noise, which is more noticeable now than the last time I rode it, so it definitely seems to be getting worse.  Actually if I place my hand on the black cover I can feel a small vibration that seems to coincide with the pinging; I'll repeat this tomorrow just to be sure.

This is giving me a headache...   

That is very interesting. The clunk you describe sounds like a hydro lock, or water in the cylinder. It reminds you of a bad starter, it starts to crank and then "clunk" .This would make perfect sense if you had a liquid cooled engine, but obviously that is not the case. Is there anyway you got water or another liquid in your engine? Usually a hydro lock will bend the conecting rod and give the exact sound that you are now having. My guess would be either bent conecting rod or bad main/conecting rod bearing(s). When you rev it slighlty the noise should kind of go away and then when you let off the gas it should get louder until the revs come down. Does this sound familiar? 

[MarkusN]

Well, hydrolock is possible in the GS if the carbs overflow and she's standing slightly pitched to the front. It's not exactly "hydro"-lock then, it's fuel-lock.

[WildBlue]

That is very interesting. The clunk you describe sounds like a hydro lock, or water in the cylinder. It reminds you of a bad starter, it starts to crank and then "clunk" .This would make perfect sense if you had a liquid cooled engine, but obviously that is not the case. Is there anyway you got water or another liquid in your engine? Usually a hydro lock will bend the conecting rod and give the exact sound that you are now having. My guess would be either bent conecting rod or bad main/conecting rod bearing(s). When you rev it slighlty the noise should kind of go away and then when you let off the gas it should get louder until the revs come down. Does this sound familiar? 

Hey Jason, that does sound familiar.  You can actually hear it on the third video where I rode it around the parking lot.  As I accelerate from a stop it gets louder until I come up to speed, then it sort of disappears, then as I slow down it gets louder again until the revs come down, then it's still there at idle as you can tell from the other two videos, but not as loud.

Hmmm... so could someone explain what hydro lock is exactly?  How does water cause the *clunk* and subsequently the bending of a rod?  I'm trying to think but I can't recall ever getting water into the engine.  I mean, when I wash her I do hose the outside of the engine, avoiding the spark plugs, but that's about it.

Well, hydrolock is possible in the GS if the carbs overflow and she's standing slightly pitched to the front. It's not exactly "hydro"-lock then, it's fuel-lock.

I see...  I still don't understand, how would this fuel-lock work?  What is getting locked?  Sorry for the noob questions, I guess I'm not familiar enough with the engine of the GS. 

[WildBlue]

Oh, one other thing.  During the time when I was hearing the *clunks* there was white (or maybe light blue) smoke coming out of the exhaust after the first start of the day, until the engine warmed up.  I always assumed this was a sign that I overfilled with oil, and it was in fact a little over the F marking for a while, but I corrected that at my last oil change and the smoke went away.

So here's another question, is it possible that running the engine with a little too much oil could've caused this hydrolock that you speak of?  It's the only fluid that I can think of that could've gotten into the cylinders. 

[Jason]

Hydro lock is liquid (usually antifreeze in liquid cooled engines ) that gets into the cylinder and lays on top of the piston. If there is enough that it has no where to go and it fills the combustion chamber it is basically trapped and when you crank the engine over the piston comes up and the liquid won't compress. So basically lets say you have a 4 inch stroke and you have 1/8 of liquid lying on top of your piston(s) now as your piston comes to top dead center the liquid will not allow the piston all the way to the top of its stroke. Something has to give and since liquid won't compress it is the conecting rod that usally gives and bend slightly. Then you get a knocking sound because the conecting rod is no longer traveling up and down straight. It basically causes the piston to "slap" off the side of the cylinder. I am not saying 100% this is what happened, but it makes sense in what you are describing happened. It would have to be torn down and checked over real good. It sounds as though you may have been getting excess oil laying on top of your pistons. How I'm not sure. I would have a good repitable mechanic listen to it as the internet doesn't always do sounds justice.

[Kerry]

Jason beat me to it, but here's my version anyway....

As MarkusN said, you can actually get fuel in the cylinder(s) if your carbs overflow and your bike is tilted down in the front.  (Usually the fuel will overflow into the airbox and out the airbox drain hose -- see this diagram for the relative positions of things.  See the downward slope of the intake boot between the carb and the engine?)

Let's suppose that fuel HAS drained into the cylinder(s).  Whether or not hydrolock occurs depends on where the pistons are at in their 4-stroke cycle.  For discussion purposes, I will refer to the animation in the middle of this HowStuffWorks page.  By right-clicking on the animation you can stop or start it, go forward or backward, etc.

1) After watching the animation for a while, stop it in the middle of the EXHAUST stroke (stroke 4 - the green one).

2) Imagine that fuel has seeped into the cylinder above the piston.

3) Restart the animation and "watch" as the liquid fuel gets shoved out of the exhaust port and into the exhaust pipe.  No problem!  The fuel will be ejected out the back as "white smoke" or will burn right in the pipe.  ("POW!")

4) Now, stop the animation in the middle of the COMPRESSION stroke (stroke 2 - the purple one).

5) Again, imagine that fuel has seeped into the cylinder above the piston.  Notice that both valves are CLOSED at this point, so nothing can enter or exit the cylinder.

6) Restart the animation and "watch" as the liquid fuel prevents the piston from moving upward.  ("CLUNK!")  With the starter motor trying to force the piston up, and the fuel preventing it from moving up, something has to give.  That something is usually the connecting rod.  

Hope this helps.

[scratch]

Here's a trick to see if the rod is bent: Take both sparkplugs out.
Find a straight rod of some sort (shish-ka-bob comes to mind (it's almost lunch...)).
Put the rod into one of the holes.
Rotate the crank by hand and measure how far up OR down that piston goes.
Then do the same for the other piston/cylinder.
If the measurements are different = you have a bent rod.

[che mike]

unless you're fortunate enough to have connecting rods that have been bent by exaclty the same amount 

[average]

Don't get me wrong!  I'm not declaring it to be a serous problem.  I'm just trying to identify the sound. 

Sounds like your bike from the video when you left the test shim in.