I went to college to...

[sledge]

Think about this, if no one was dedicated and commited enough to follow a career path and study at university, within a generation there would be no....doctors and dentists, lawyers, management professionals, teachers, scientists, clerics civil-engineers etc etc etc. Within 2 generations we would be falling back into the dark-ages.

[Onlypastrana199]

If they taught you waht you actually needed to know for those when you first went to school..or spent the entire time teaching you things (say for medical start you doing stuff related to actual medical stuff right away and spent 8 years teaching you concepts and medical info) Instead of the crap they make you go through for no reason..theyd never make money and thats what its all about...its stupid....

[Egaeus]

I have to disagree.  A broad background isn't a bad thing.  If you decided you wanted to be a doctor and did nothing but learn biology, then how would things like MRI machines and artificial hearts have ever been developed. 

[GeeP]

My suggestion would be to take off the blinders and look at reality.  Colleges don't have a stranglehold on information, although I'm sure they would prefer it that way.  You can learn just as much, if not more, by spending 4 years in the spare bedroom and the garage gaining and applying knowledge.  It's a question if dicipline.  Either you have it or you don't.   

[Egaeus]

The problem with the basement approach is that you don't have anyone to guide your learning; people who have the experience that you don't.  It's like my friend the programmer mentioned above.  He got interested in firmware design.  Specifically he wanted to design a controller.  He could tinker, and design something that kinda' worked, but he didn't have the theoretical background to understand it.  He wanted to design a PID (proportional integral derivative) controller, but he didn't know Laplace Transforms.  He couldn't understand Laplace Transforms because he didn't have the prerequisite Calculus and Differential Equations background.  Without that, it's difficult to design an effective controller because you don't have the ability to model the things you are controlling.  Without being able to quantify their operational characteristics, you can't design a controller for it effectively.

[Onlypastrana199]

Those are applicable concepts though...thats why I said CONCEPTS AND INFO...now you tell me why id need a damn philosophy or economics class to save someones life? Or why one of the best colleges in the US doesnt offer sign language as a language option especially when one of their largest programs is pre-med (you MUST be fluent in at least a second language before you can graduate despite your major)

[GeeP]

The problem with the basement approach is that you don't have anyone to guide your learning; people who have the experience that you don't. 

That's why you have to learn to network.  I'd rather learn from people out in the field who are actually DOING it than hearing some rusty old instructor wax on about something he's never experienced.   

[pandy]

That's why you have to learn to network.  I'd rather learn from people out in the field who are actually DOING it than hearing some rusty old instructor wax on about something he's never experienced.   

College isn't for everyone! There are many ways to learn, and being an apprentice of sorts is one of them (that's how I learned glass blowing). I'm not disciplined enough to learn loads of info on my own, so college worked for me! 

[Egaeus]

That's why you have to learn to network. I'd rather learn from people out in the field who are actually DOING it than hearing some rusty old instructor wax on about something he's never experienced.

College isn't for everyone! There are many ways to learn, and being an apprentice of sorts is one of them (that's how I learned glass blowing). I'm not disciplined enough to learn loads of info on my own, so college worked for me!

Nor is an apprenticeship (in lieu of college) suitable for every profession. 

[pandy]

Nor is an apprenticeship (in lieu of college) suitable for every profession. 

And the "stating the obvious" award goes to.....Egaeus! 

[Egaeus]

Nor is an apprenticeship (in lieu of college) suitable for every profession. 

And the "stating the obvious" award goes to.....Egaeus! 

Except that it seemed that the opposite was being argued earlier.  Personally, if I'm charged for murder, I want someone who went to law school to defend me, and if I need an operation, the person operating on me had better have gone to medical school.  I'd rather fly in a plane designed by someone who's gone to engineering school.  Sure there may be one person in a (multi?) million who can learn those things in their basement, but I'm not going to trust my life to them....

[pandy]

If there's an apprenticeship for becoming a lawyer that makes law school obsolete, please send the info my way! (And I'd prefer the one-year program, please!) 

[Egaeus]

You can take the Louisiana bar exam and practice law there without going to law school.

[pandy]

I think I've heard that one can do that here in Cali (or that was the way it was in the past)..... but...then I'd have to study...  I'm not ready to study more yet.... 

[Unnamed]

If i had to pay for all four years of college...it would cost me $220,000 not including books...tell me that isnt rediculous...

I'm not sure how the hell you got that figure so high, I know Colgate is right up there and I'm paying 45k/ year. Well, I'm actually not paying that much because of masses of financial aid, but thats another story... Yale's telling me 45,850 including room and board... I know you're not a math major but I don't see how that gets you to 220k.

Anyway back on topic, I think that the college experience depends a lot on the type of school. My school is about 2,800 students, and I'm really happy that I ended up in a liberal arts school. There aren't really any people going to college as a step to getting a job they know they want, but more people who enjoy learning and actually want to be there. I don't want to overgeneralize of course, we are D1 so a lot of our athletes are dumb as hell, but the non-meathead sports still have a lot of smart, motivated people in them. The thing I really like about liberal arts is that I had no idea what I wanted to do before I came in, took classes in a bunch of areas, and figured out what I was interested in. I felt like I had total control the whole time, and didn't have to worry about switching schools or anything to study the things I wanted to. I haven't learned anything directly applicable to any career, but I've learned a lot of skills which are pretty relevant to work of any type. Critical thinking, analysis, other hard to define but handy skills. Pastrana's posts seem to be directly challenging the idea behind liberal arts schools, and I disagree with her. I think that a philosophy class or an econ class will help her understand better how the world works, in a nonquantifiable but ultimately useful way. Besides, you find things that you enjoy. Colgate stuck me in a Middle East class and I found out that I really enjoy studying it. My philosophy classes have been really interesting, as have my political science classes. Its hard to understand wtf is going on in the world without a broad background that crosses disciplines. I'm sure that your sign language experience is irritating, but you can hardly condemn an entire system for a small failing like that.

I'm in a different position now because I'm taking the LSAT with the intent of eventually going to law school. I'm planning on working for a couple years but I have to admit that my motivation for law school is largely to put off the real world. Also, I like money.

Colgate still has all the usual crap with freshmen coming in which has been so appropriately addressed already, but once they figure things out they get cooler. Here the school doubles the size of the town as well, but luckily the freshmen are too clueless to know where to go. And they can't get into any of the bars. 

[pantablo]

I just wrote a f'ing dissertation on the subject only to lose the connection....fak.

[Grainbelt]

(that's how I learned glass blowing).

I had forgotten that Pandy blows glass. 

Seriously, thats pretty sweet. I watched some people do it out in Montreal, pretty amazing the control they had.

[pandy]

That was many moons ago. That's the hardest I've ever worked! I think I still have the first dorky little bud vase I ever blew. It looks like a first-grader's art piece ... from the reject pile. 

[natedawg120]

That was many moons ago. That's the hardest I've ever worked! I think I still have the first dorky little bud vase I ever blew. It looks like a first-grader's art piece ... from the reject pile. 

Still though i have seen glass blowers at work and it looks very interesting and hard cause you have to heat the glass to the perfect temp.  thats cool pandy