Rons Cycle Supply of Brandon almost got me killed, and doesn't care... So far.

[ohgood]

I left the topic brutal, with a possibility for them to make it right, just in case I'm surprised.

I live in Tampa Florida, Brandon in particular, and have visited a bike shop several times. The owner was always on hand, and seemed nice enough not to mention knowledgable.

Cutting to the chase:

Rons Cycle Supply of Brandon, Florida replaced my rear tire this past week.

** HIS MECHANIC NEVER TIGHTENED THE REAR BRAKE CALIPERS BOLTS. **

Just by coincidence I had the bike listed on ebay and craigslist, and was shooting some video and pictures for people that asked, and guess what  is visible if you zoom in really close ? The f%$king bolt heads are sticking 1/16 or better out. NOT EVEN SNUGGED. NO LOCTITE, NOTHING !

Now the really bad part:

A person who will remain nameless (and a really nice guy from my opinion) test rode the bike on thursday, the day it was done from the shop. HE TEST RODE IT WITHOUT MY OR HIS KNOWING THE BRAKE COULD FAIL OR WORSE CAUSE A CRASH AT ANY MOMENT. When I realized this at work this morning, I was physically SICK.

Now for the really terrible part.

The owner of Rons Cycle Supply  of Brandon, FL told me on the phone "I'm not fixing your whole f%$king bike because you f%&ked it up." this morning. I wasn't an ass, I wasn't rude. I simply asked him to send someone with the proper bolts and loctite, and possibly the proper tools to install a new set of pads as mine are likely beat to shaZam!. He flatly refused.

Color me amazed. After I pressed, and mentioned the photos and videos I thought I might have, he changed his tune. He's sending out someone in the morning (so he says) to pick it up.

I don't know if the moderators will want to kill this thread for slander or whatever, but I'll go to court in a heartbeat if anyone wants to call me on my claims.


Now then-

Next time I have my bike/car/skateboard/shoes anywhere for anything, (IF EVER) I'll triple check behind the person doing the service.

YOU SHOULD TOO.

Yes, I realize I'm an older and wiser idiot for not checking behind them to begin with.

Now, should I just go buy the bolts... and do it proper myself, or do I trust them to not f%$king kill me ?

[RedShift]

I'm not the one who will kill this thread. 

If anything you bring up a good point to ponder.  Whenever anyone has service done on their motorcycle, you should invest the due diligence of checking that you approve the work done.  We all are responsible for making sure our Bike, our Gear and ourselves are ready to ride every time we head out.

I'm not saying the dealership is not at fault for shoddy workmanship, but every time we ride (especially if we have had the bike out of our care) we should inspect all obvious facets of our machine.  The acronym taught in the MSF BasicRider Course is T-CLOCS - a guide to the pre-ride inspection:

T - Tires & Wheels

• Air Pressure
  
• Tread
  
• Cracks, dents, loose spokes (on bikes other than the GS500)
  
• Bearings
  
• Brakes

C - Controls

• Levers
  
• Switches
  
• Cables
  
• Hoses
  
• Throttle

L - Lights and Electrics

• Working Condition (headlights, signals, tail lights)

O - Oil and Other Fluids

• Levels
  
• Leaks

C - Chassis

• Suspension (fork seals, rear shock)
  
• Drive Components (chain, sprockets)

S - Stands

• Side Stand
  
• Center Stand

.
If you neglect this inspection, you increase the potential for some problem will ruin your ride.  In my opinion, you have a responsibility to inspect the work done, and if not acceptable -- complain. 

Caveat Emptor.

[pandy]

Well said, RedShift. 

The last time I had my bike worked on by a shop, I didn't check the work they'd done.

It turned out that four bolts (the four that are located where the bolt is labeled #4 below) were....slightly loose....ok....three of them were ready to fall out and the fourth was slightly loose... Basically, I could have lost the front end at any time.



That was damned scary, and I've been meaning to learn to tighten things down ever since.... 

I hope Ron's Cycle Supply does right by you, ohgood.

[GeeP]

First, there is no excuse for your bike to have left the shop in that condition, assuming that the mechanic worked on the rear brake caliper.

Second, there is no excuse for the attitude and language he used with you over the telephone, assuming you didn't provoke him.

Third, it should not be necessary to threaten him with a lawsuit to get him to come out and look at it.  As an aircraft mechanic I can say that I would be horrified if a customer called me up with a complaint such as yours.  My exact words would have been "Don't touch it, I'm on my way." 

His attitude shows a complete disregard for his customer and his customer's safety. 

I would not have them tighten your brake caliper bolts, I would do it yourself or take it to another shop.  I get the impression he wants to take it back to his shop.  This is not required for such a simple task.  What is to prevent him from screwing something else up while it is in there?

In addition, if the proper bolts are installed in the brake caliper you do not need to buy new ones.  Simply torque the bolts to the specification listed in the service manual.  (22-26 ft-lbs on GS500E's)

[aplitz]

Its possible to change the rear without pulling the caliper, are you sure its their mistake?

[scottpA_GS]

Caveat Emptor.

AWESOME!   

[ohgood]

Its possible to change the rear without pulling the caliper, are you sure its their mistake?

I don't know if it's possible. Yes, I'm quite certain it was their mistake. On the phone he actually said 'We NEVER use loctite on motorcycles. Thats stupid. We torque them right the first time.'

Go figure.

[ohgood]

I'm not the one who will kill this thread. 

If anything you bring up a good point to ponder.  Whenever anyone has service done on their motorcycle, you should invest the due diligence of checking that you approve the work done.  We all are responsible for making sure our Bike, our Gear and ourselves are ready to ride every time we head out.

I'm not saying the dealership is not at fault for shoddy workmanship, but every time we ride (especially if we have had the bike out of our care) we should inspect all obvious facets of our machine.  The acronym taught in the MSF BasicRider Course is T-CLOCS - a guide to the pre-ride inspection:

T - Tires & Wheels

• Air Pressure
  
• Tread
  
• Cracks, dents, loose spokes (on bikes other than the GS500)
  
• Bearings
  
• Brakes

C - Controls

• Levers
  
• Switches
  
• Cables
  
• Hoses
  
• Throttle

L - Lights and Electrics

• Working Condition (headlights, signals, tail lights)

O - Oil and Other Fluids

• Levels
  
• Leaks

C - Chassis

• Suspension (fork seals, rear shock)
  
• Drive Components (chain, sprockets)

S - Stands

• Side Stand
  
• Center Stand

.
If you neglect this inspection, you increase the potential for some problem will ruin your ride.  In my opinion, you have a responsibility to inspect the work done, and if not acceptable -- complain. 

Caveat Emptor.

Yep. I was an idiot for trusting someone else with my safety. I agree completely. I stopped taking my car(s) to mechanics when I was tired of being 'taken'.

This has cured me of neglecting my own duties of insuring I have a safe ride.

I will _never_ trust someone else to do a proper job again. I will check. Everytime.

[ohgood]

First, there is no excuse for your bike to have left the shop in that condition, assuming that the mechanic worked on the rear brake caliper.

Second, there is no excuse for the attitude and language he used with you over the telephone, assuming you didn't provoke him.

Third, it should not be necessary to threaten him with a lawsuit to get him to come out and look at it.  As an aircraft mechanic I can say that I would be horrified if a customer called me up with a complaint such as yours.  My exact words would have been "Don't touch it, I'm on my way." 

His attitude shows a complete disregard for his customer and his customer's safety. 

I would not have them tighten your brake caliper bolts, I would do it yourself or take it to another shop.  I get the impression he wants to take it back to his shop.  This is not required for such a simple task.  What is to prevent him from screwing something else up while it is in there?

In addition, if the proper bolts are installed in the brake caliper you do not need to buy new ones.  Simply torque the bolts to the specification listed in the service manual.  (22-26 ft-lbs on GS500E's)

Wow. Aircraft mechanic eh ? Ya, I can imagine the knots in your stomach sometimes. I can understand your immediate reaction, and personal relationship with every part that goes in. I don't think I could do that myself.

You brought up a very interesting point. Should I trust them to do right this morning ? I don't know yet. When the mechanic shows up, I'll base it on his manners and professionalism.

Were it MY business, I'd likely show up myself. The same day. If humanly possible within the hour. But then again, I don't understand how alot of people stay in business over the years.

I'd like to thank everyone for the points. I'll take my lumps for stupidity now, and enjoy my first day breathing a little since from the experience.

[sledge]

Unfortunately it happens, mechanics can and do loose concentration and get distracted, but in saying that, critical fastenings should be double checked. I think the moral of the story is to carefully examine the bike before it leaves the shop ideally with the mechanic present.

[dgyver]

Its possible to change the rear without pulling the caliper, are you sure its their mistake?

I don't know if it's possible. Yes, I'm quite certain it was their mistake. On the phone he actually said 'We NEVER use loctite on motorcycles. Thats stupid. We torque them right the first time.'

Go figure.

It is very very difficult to pull the rear wheel without removing the caliper. There is a lot of risk to damage the wheel paint. It is faster to remove the caliper.

Apparently they do not torque them right the first time either. 

The only place I can recall locktite being used from the factory is on the front and rear rotor bolts.

[ohgood]

Its possible to change the rear without pulling the caliper, are you sure its their mistake?

I don't know if it's possible. Yes, I'm quite certain it was their mistake. On the phone he actually said 'We NEVER use loctite on motorcycles. Thats stupid. We torque them right the first time.'

Go figure.

It is very very difficult to pull the rear wheel without removing the caliper. There is a lot of risk to damage the wheel paint. It is faster to remove the caliper.

Apparently they do not torque them right the first time either. 

The only place I can recall locktite being used from the factory is on the front and rear rotor bolts.

Thank you dgyver. I wondered about the wheel removal process. My clymer was in the wife's car, so I couldn't look it up. As far as wheel paint damage, ya that happened too. Not because of pulling the wheel off, but because the freaking caliper was flapping in the wind thanks to Rons.


Here's the update from this mornings 'service':

I was told he would pick up the bike at 9am at my workplace. He (the owner) showed up at 10:30am. Just a little late.
He annoyed one of my co-workers by bellowing "Wheres the f%$king bike ?" then he just stood there, instead of following <name changed to protect the uninnocent> to where I was turning shafts.

He stated that I would "have to put the keys in it and load it myself" on his trailer mind you. And that he wasn't "going to f%$king wrestle that thing at my shop without the keys".

At this point I suggested he forget the whole process, and if he happened to have brought the proper bolts, he could just leave them and I would button it up.

He asked for a hammer.

I declined.

He bitched and moaned some more.

I asked if the brakes would need to be bled (while I'm installing the bolts mind you) after having pressed them together with no resistance.

He said "look its f%$king fine. the f%$king wheel rolls without dragging the disc. what f%$king more do you want -  your whole bike rebuilt ?"

I pointed out the 1/2 dozen places the paint was abraded from the wheel by the caliper. I also pointed out the fact that one brake pad was bent and damaged. THen I pointed out the pedal still went to the floor for good measure.

This is the part you won't believe I did:

I said "You have my respect for coming out personally instead of sending a kid or one of your mechannics. That's ballsy after the conversation we had the yesterday morning. I'm modest enough to thank you and shake your hand, if you will."

He said, "I didn't want to work on that f%$king bike to begin with!"

and walked away.

So there you have it. If Ron or one of his employees ever reads this and cares enough to call me, you have my cellular numbers, and I'll debate any point from above any time you please.

There you have it folks.

I never suggested the guy take a flying leap as much as I wanted too. On the way home today I couldn't shake the idea of a Summers Eve product duct taped to his buell's tank though. I had a really good laugh in my helmet. Didn't even need to actually do it to feel better. I guess I'm getting 'mature' or something. shaZam!.

[dgyver]

Is this a Suzuki dealership?

[ohgood]

Is this a Suzuki dealership?

Nope. It just happened to be less than a mile from our residence, and I located it while apartment shopping over a year ago. They seemed friendly enough at the time. The 'local' shops are the ones I'd like to support generally.

[GeeP]

Jesus!

I would take him to court just to make a point.  If you plan to go that route I suggest you write down everything you can think of TONIGHT, before you forget.  Monday morning get a notary to notarize your notes.

Were there any witnesses to the incident at your work?  Get them to write down what the saw  Have them sign and date it.

Beyond that, I suggest you do your own work from now on.  Yes, tools are expensive.  However, over the long run you're not paying for others to work on your bike.  You're also won't be at the mercy of characters like him.

[pandy]

I never suggested the guy take a flying leap as much as I wanted too.

Yanno...you have a LOT more patience than I, my friend. I would have thrown this dirtbag out after the first expletive uttered at my place of business. You did exactly right to do it yourself rather than have that walking waste-of-air touch your bike. He's creating some NASTY karma from himself, because you know what they say about how a good experience reaches a few ears, but a bad experience reaches everyone we know, every bike site we visit, and every chance we have to share the story. 

[Gisser]

I would have thrown this dirtbag out after the first expletive uttered at my place of business.

Yeah, but just to play devil's advocate  ...

The shop's wrencher made an innocent mistake.  We all make mistakes.  On my DIY projects I've overlooked tightening fasteners.  In those instances I say "oops" I forgot...no big deal...no caplock bleating.  Sure, I coulda been killed.  Many fasteners on a motorcycle if left loose could lead to a hypothetical "I coulda been killed" moment...axle nuts, pinch bolts, caliper bolts, lever bolts, drain plugs,....on and on....  There's some risk inherent in 2 wheel transportation.  Sorta like aircraft maintenance...big responsibility...but these motorcycle guys don't get paid like aircraft mechanics.  They are not compensated comensurate with having lives on the line.  They're working for peanuts.  What was this...changing a tire...  a $40 job....  For this, shop owner Ron gets jerked halfway across town, basically to make a house call, by a customer whom he perceives to be fishing for freebies (brake pads, fasteners, wheel), to retighten a couple bolts that the customer was more than capable of doing himself--like most of us would have.  To top it off, Ron then gets sent off with an offer equivalent to a pat on the head and a "good boy!"  

I'm Ron I'm thinking I need customers like this like I need a hole in my head. 

/devil's advocate 

[ohgood]

Well actually, the bolts were _gone_, not loose. While reviewing iPhoto contents of the last couple of days I found the heads a good 1/16th of an inch from even touching the "OK now I'll put a torque wrench on it" point. Sticking out is my point.

If I had actually checked, and found the mistake, I would have definetly tightened the bolts, informed the mechanic by cellphone of a mistake, and depending on the response just kept on trucking.

Once again, this is MY mistake for not checking while picking the bike up.

The real issue I raised was the lack of concern on the part of the OWNER, not a wrench monkey making $8/hr. (I'm not knocking mechanics folks, I'm a machinist and that would be calling the pot black.)

If all _I_ had to do as a business owner to make REPEAT customers happy was to drive out and tighten _supply_an_interesting_device_on_a_motorcycle_that_could_cause_death_if_neglected_ for a couple hundred grand a year, life would be sweeeet.

Most folks have a higher standard though, and wouldn't be a repeat patron.

[Gisser]

If all _I_ had to do as a business owner to make REPEAT customers happy was to drive out and tighten _supply_an_interesting_device_on_a_motorcycle_that_could_cause_death_if_neglected_ for a couple hundred grand a year, life would be sweeeet.

A couple hundred grand a year?  Must be a Harley dealer.  

Look, you have every right.....but businessmen are in the business of making money.  Easy money.  Businessmen have a nose for that.  I guess Ron had already made the judgement that no easy money would be flowing from your coffers to his and gave you service to match.   Sucks, I know.  At my local dealership I've learned I have to prime the pump every once in awhile, because it's been over 20 yrs since since my last new bike purchase when cash came gushing out of my wallet into their till and, unless Suzuki radically updates the GStwin, they've got a looong wait until the next gusher.     

[ohgood]

If all _I_ had to do as a business owner to make REPEAT customers happy was to drive out and tighten _supply_an_interesting_device_on_a_motorcycle_that_could_cause_death_if_neglected_ for a couple hundred grand a year, life would be sweeeet.

A couple hundred grand a year?  Must be a Harley dealer.  

Look, you have every right.....but businessmen are in the business of making money.  Easy money.  Businessmen have a nose for that.  I guess Ron had already made the judgement that no easy money would be flowing from your coffers to his and gave you service to match.   Sucks, I know.  At my local dealership I've learned I have to prime the pump every once in awhile, because it's been over 20 yrs since since my last new bike purchase when cash came gushing out of my wallet into their till and, unless Suzuki radically updates the GStwin, they've got a looong wait until the next gusher.     

Wow. This is the part I really hadn't considered though:

no easy money would be flowing from your coffers to his and gave you service to match.

Thanks. I hadn't thought of the money. I guess that's why I'm an employee and not an owner.



As an update, the bike came home Saturday after removing the fried pads and not using the rear brake the whole way home. I know, not the safest, but theonly way I had to get it home.

I bled the brakes (all) and replaced the foobar'd pads with the last set that was still in usable condition. I'll order new front and rear tonight.


This week I'm taking it in for a 2nd and 3rd opinion at Suzuki dealer(s). This weekend I'm pampering with fresh pads, oil&filter, air, wash n wax, fuel stabilizer, maybe a new flyscreen, and myself a new pair of boots.

As it turns out I've learned quite a bit from the experience.

1) Never trust anyone.
2) Double check everything, everytime.
3) Check everything possible befor every ride.
4) Ride like my brakes will fail, engine lock, chain seize, front and rear tire blow, helmet split, and a jet plane carrying hammers crash in front of me.

Thanks everyone, you too Ron.