New GS, engine seized. Diary of Rebuild/Testing - LOTS OF PICS!!!!!

[Fry]

5 may work, but you want 8, considered the strongest generally available strenght out there.


I like the idea of incorporating a custom battery box, into your structural cross brace, though it looks like the vent on the Batt would still be a issue.

[beRto]

I know that is a concern and to be honest with you I have no clue how to tell the grade of the bolt.

Those appear to be Grade 5 bolts:
http://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/Materials-and-Grades/Bolt-Grade-Chart.aspx
http://www.americanfastener.com/technical/grade_markings_steel.asp

Will a grade 5 bolt need to be replaced?  The strengths and numbers mean nothing to me  lol

Here's an explanation of the difference:
http://www.rockcrawler.com/techreports/fasteners/index.asp

The bottom line is that Grade 8 fasteners can support higher forces than Grade 5 fasteners; to be safe, you are better off using the Grade 8.

[birdman]

The Grade 5 bolts should be adequate for your purpose.  The key is a graded bolt here.  No grade bolts are often much weaker than the charts indicate.

I agree with the cardboard mock-up for the support.  You may want to consider a couple things for the shape.
If you cut a notch in it for the battery, make sure to radius the inside corners as much as possible, don't make them sharp corners. Corners are inherently weak.  You could taper it from the welded edge towards the inside corner to make it even smoother transition while still giving you as big a welded edge as possible.  Sort of like a bowtie effect on that one side.

I keep looking at that framework all bolted up, that is a great balance of a design. Very esthetically pleasing.

[utgunslinger13]

The Grade 5 bolts should be adequate for your purpose.  The key is a graded bolt here.  No grade bolts are often much weaker than the charts indicate.

I agree with the cardboard mock-up for the support.  You may want to consider a couple things for the shape.
If you cut a notch in it for the battery, make sure to radius the inside corners as much as possible, don't make them sharp corners. Corners are inherently weak.  You could taper it from the welded edge towards the inside corner to make it even smoother transition while still giving you as big a welded edge as possible.  Sort of like a bowtie effect on that one side.

I keep looking at that framework all bolted up, that is a great balance of a design. Very esthetically pleasing.

I like the idea of the "bowtie" effect on the battery mount side, but what about if I did that to both sides just to allow some room between the tire and the angle steel?  How close should I get to the bend before I start to lose the strength it adds?

Also, will Home Depot have grade 8 bolts if I choose to upgrade?

Thanks,

Nick

[birdman]

From what I see I would expect the most worrisome force to be effected at the mounting ears from lateral loading, side to side.

The original bike structure used square tubing which is quite rigid and you've lost that in the ears between the bolt holes and the thick part of your welding. 

If you need to clearance the 90 angle as shown in cardboard on the other side for tire clearance you should not give up too much in the way of lateral strength.  I would try to leave as much meat as possible.  Remember the upper mounting points will be in extension and the lower mount under compression due to your weight on the seat. 

The original bike structure did not provide any lateral bracing from the upper spars.  By adding a piece to your upper mounts like you show this may offset the weaker bowtie lower brace. Watch out for the seat clearance though.

This may seem like overkill but if it prevents a seat collapse on a big bump in the road later on down the line, then its worth it.

Automotive, NAPA or the like should be a good source for grade 8 bolts.

[notjohndavid]

I'm new to cycling and the forum. I don't have anything technical to add to this thread but just wanted to say that I've really enjoyed reading it (and learning from it), can't wait for more photos and posts of how your bike is coming along.  Love the seat and subframe, looks great!

[utgunslinger13]

I'm new to cycling and the forum. I don't have anything technical to add to this thread but just wanted to say that I've really enjoyed reading it (and learning from it), can't wait for more photos and posts of how your bike is coming along.  Love the seat and subframe, looks great!

Thanks for the kind words, just remember that with enough time, energy, and patience anything is possible.  I had no clue how to get the engine out of the bike when I started this a couple months ago and now look where I am!  Never be afraid to try something and learn from your mistakes!

From what I see I would expect the most worrisome force to be effected at the mounting ears from lateral loading, side to side.

The original bike structure used square tubing which is quite rigid and you've lost that in the ears between the bolt holes and the thick part of your welding. 

If you need to clearance the 90 angle as shown in cardboard on the other side for tire clearance you should not give up too much in the way of lateral strength.  I would try to leave as much meat as possible.  Remember the upper mounting points will be in extension and the lower mount under compression due to your weight on the seat. 

The original bike structure did not provide any lateral bracing from the upper spars.  By adding a piece to your upper mounts like you show this may offset the weaker bowtie lower brace. Watch out for the seat clearance though.

This may seem like overkill but if it prevents a seat collapse on a big bump in the road later on down the line, then its worth it.

Automotive, NAPA or the like should be a good source for grade 8 bolts.

The seat has plenty of clearance, so the upper brace shouldn't be much of an issue.  I agree completely that I want to eliminate the possibility of a seat collapse later, but I'm still new to the forces that the seat/frame will deal with so I'm unsure if the cross braces will be sufficient.  Hopefully I will get the braces in sometime this week and be to a point I'm satisfied with the frame by this weekend.

Thanks for all you input!

Nick

[yamahonkawazuki]

ever considered an X brace, between teh subframe legs?

[utgunslinger13]

ever considered an X brace, between teh subframe legs?

I'm assuming you mean from viewed from the rear?  Like connecting the upper left and lower right together and the upper right to the lower left?  This would not work due to the battery's location, and the subframe mounting brackets are at an angle as to not allow the x brace I'm assuming you mean.

Nick

[yamahonkawazuki]

i mneant from left side to right,  for lateral bracing  any way i can get a pic directly from the rear? as well as directly from one side or the otehr. ( no matter which side TBH)

[utgunslinger13]

Oh I got ya now!  I was thinking the X meant a brace shaped like an X not a "CROSS BRACE" lol

Here is the rear view:




Here is the side view:




Thanks,

Nick

[utgunslinger13]

Excuse my horrible paint skills, but here is a diagram of what I am planning for the lateral forces as of right now.






The upper is a 90 degree angle bar connecting the upper left to the upper right.  The lower is also a 90 degree angle bar, but with a cut out for the batter box clearance, and possibly a cutout for clearance of the rear tire if necessary.


Thanks,

Nick

[Fry]

What about making a Batt. Box/Slash Upper and Lower Rear Brace set up?

The top Horizontal Brace, made out of whatever size and shape material, along with the same bottom one, could be used as mounting structures for a Batter box. On the lower, shoot 2 forward legs, spaced far enough apart to cradle the bottom of the battery, do the same wit the top, or weld your Batt structure as it is now, to these cross braces...

[utgunslinger13]

Well last night I started mocking up the cross braces exactly as I have them pictured in the photo I drew on in paint.  I'll see what I can do about possibly incorporating them into the battery box, but again my first concern is strength, second clearance from the tire/removal of the battery, and then aesthetics are a distant third! 

I still have some slight changes I want to make as my first tack put it so I can not remove the battery easily, so I'm going to look at rotating the battery box to see if that makes more room before I start cutting more out of the cross brace.  I'll keep you up to date with any changes!

Thanks,

Nick

[notjohndavid]

When is the next installment (journel entry/photos) of "As The Engine Turns" due out?

[utgunslinger13]

I did get some work done this weekend, but I ran out of welding wire and haven't been able to get a whole lot done.  I am now in the process of trying to locate a seat latch that didn't come with the tail section or to fab something up that will work.  Hopefully I'll get pictures of how she sits tonight and get them up.

Thanks,

Nick

[beRto]

Any progress on the engine rebuild?

[utgunslinger13]

The engine is sitting in the garage waiting to be put back together.  I sorta put it on hold till I got the tail section done because I want to paint/powder coat the frame which means I'm in no hurry to get the engine done because it can't go back in till the frame is done.  As of right now I have everything welded into place except the lower cross brace, which has the outside welded but not the inside.  Once I get that welded in, all thats left is some bondo work to smoth everything down and its off to paint/powder coating.  Once that is done, then I will move on to the engine rebuild.

[beRto]

The engine is sitting in the garage waiting to be put back together.
...

Once that is done, then I will move on to the engine rebuild.

Just curious, has the engine already been honed/bored, or is it still waiting for machining? What was the conclusion there?

[utgunslinger13]

Just curious, has the engine already been honed/bored, or is it still waiting for machining? What was the conclusion there?

Yes the engine was honed and will need to be reringed, which I have sitting in the box waiting to go in.  I've just been sidetracked getting the frame ready.

Nick