forks....

[starshooter10]

so...

my buddy is getting a early 90's GS... he looked at it today and noticed the that forks had grime on them... same type that i have on my left side (dohh!)

i assume it's the O-rings going out...


how hard is it to replace thouse bad boys?

what the part cost (and oil)

and i remember reading about some people putting in spacers (nylon i think) as kind of a poor mans what to make it stiffer...


im pushing 250;lbs (at 6'2'') and my GF (110lbs) likes to ride alot with me... and i notice it bottoms out the front alot when going into and out of parking lots over speedbumps ECT...

and info on that... size of the spacers/blocks materials?

i think my buddie will want to do the same thing... but more for sport... he dosn't want a second person on his bike

[beRto]

how hard is it to replace thouse bad boys?

what the part cost (and oil)

Replacing the fork oil seals is not too difficult. It will take about 3 hours your first time around. You will need to make a special tool in order to get the forks apart. These threads give some details on the process (and that special tool):
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=7084.0
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=39528.0
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=39547.0

The cost of replacement parts for my 1995 (in Canada) was about $70. This was for replacement of all parts; you could get away with reusing a few of the old parts if you're on a tight budget:
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=42473.0

and i remember reading about some people putting in spacers (nylon i think) as kind of a poor mans what to make it stiffer...

im pushing 250;lbs (at 6'2'') and my GF (110lbs) likes to ride alot with me... and i notice it bottoms out the front alot when going into and out of parking lots over speedbumps ECT...

and info on that... size of the spacers/blocks materials?

i think my buddie will want to do the same thing... but more for sport... he dosn't want a second person on his bike

You're right, some people do use bigger spacers. Sorry, I don't really know the details on that. I have a similar build to you (6'3" @ 230 lb) and installed a set of Progressive springs. Since you ride two-up, this upgrade would be especially useful for you.

The Progressive springs (11-1128) can be bought at Motorcycle Accessory Warehouse (MAW) for about $60:
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=40454.0

Sometimes a set of Progressives will turn up in the For Sale section; keep an eye out!

If you decide to go with this upgreade, the following thread describes how to replace the springs:
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=25706.0

[SNsSuzuki]

Sorry, late bump.

I'd just like to thank the GStwins board for providing so much excellent information. beRto, from most of the threads I've read regarding the fork seal replacements, you've been very well organized and detailed. Thanks for also posting the additional links, they are going to be very helpful.

Ordered all the parts from my local suzuki dealership as well as the progressive springs. Hopefully with all these links and the haynes manual I can do this without any problems :knockonwood: 

-Steven

[beRto]

Sorry, late bump.

I'd just like to thank the GStwins board for providing so much excellent information. beRto, from most of the threads I've read regarding the fork seal replacements, you've been very well organized and detailed. Thanks for also posting the additional links, they are going to be very helpful.

Ordered all the parts from my local suzuki dealership as well as the progressive springs. Hopefully with all these links and the haynes manual I can do this without any problems :knockonwood: 

-Steven

Don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions.

[SNsSuzuki]

Actually. I just wanted to clarify a few things. Before I placed the order for all the parts, I wanted to confirm the part #'s with the person on the phone. Basically, the part numbers match up until the tail end that followed the hyphen. IE #####-#####. The numbers preceding the hyphen matched, but the ones after were different. These were for my gs500F. I'm assuming thee last few numbers are just to indicate the different year and model even though the parts are completely identical to former models, correct?

-Steven

edit: I will actually also post my response in the aforementioned thread for completeness where the part numbers were listed. Mods, please delete this message if possible as I didn't see a delete option lol.

[SNsSuzuki]

I tried adding this to the FAQ thread, but I'm assuming no further posts can be added to faq's. Please help if someone can! I need this done asap 

First off, my bike is a 2004 GS500F. My goals are to replace my oil and dust seals as well as replace the oem springs with progressive springs. I'm beginning to wonder if the newer models have different suspension components because of the following:

I've ran into the imfamous damper rod bolt problem... I've purchased the "special tool" in preperation for attacking the damper rod bolt to find that I am unable to use it:

This is a picture someone posted in another thread showing what the "special tool" would be used for:



However, when I look down my fork tube this is what I see.



^As you can see there is no place for the "special tool" to grasp on to as the only things down the tube appear to be circular. I've tried using the end of a broom stick as well. Even when my friend and I tried removing the damper rod bolt WITH the spring, spacer, and top bolt back together inside the tube, the damper rod bolt still just spun around in its place.

Also, here is a picture of my oem vs Progressive Spring. Does this look right? I remember someone posted a picture comparing their oem and Progressive Spring but their OEM spring seemed MUCH shorter than the progressive ones compared to how short mine is when lined up next to the progressive spring.



Please help if anyone can. Need to have this up and running by monday.

Thanks in advance!
-Steven

[The Buddha]

Springs look OK, progressives are meant to take no spacer, or a very small spacer ...

That other damper rod crap ... yea you're screwed ... you need what I call a J rod ...
Its made of 1/4 inch steel rod, you bend and grind a J shape in the bottom 1 inch of it and ~2 feet up you bent a 90 degree in it. Then you shove it down in that damper rod and the J part will drop into the hole for the fluid to come though on the damper rod. Then unscrew the bolt  on bottom ... BTW that bolt on bottom is in with blue loctite ... you're screwed if you cant hold the rod well ...

Cool.
Buddha.

[Kurlon]

Put the spring/spacer/cap back on the fork, and clamp the lower in a vice.  (Use wood blocks or copper jaw covers so you don't mar anything.)  One of you holds the impact gun, the other just pulls on the upper tube.  Short bursts with the impact gun, use as short a bit as you can to minimize torque loss.  And when I say 'pull' I mean feet up on the bench if you have to.

[SNsSuzuki]

Thanks for the quick replies!

This sucks, wish I had known the parts were different  I just wanna change my oil seals and springs damnit.

Buddha- About your J Rod... Am I basically just jamming the end of this J rod down the tube so it wedges inside the damper rod? Am I to worry about scratching it?

-Kurlon- We tried to remove it with the spring and everything loaded back in to the fork to no avail. No impact gun available though so probably not enough torque by hand.

If all else fails I'm just gonna have to take it to a shop I suppose and see if they can finish it for me. I'm assuming reinstalling the damper rod bolt would be a problem as well should I manage to take it out huh? Nothing to hold it tight to screw it back in...

[werase643]

buy a allen bit that will attach to a ratchet(preferably for a 1/2 ratchet)
then go to any garage and ask them to zip the bolt out of the bottom of the fork

some air tools are worth soooooo much more than they cost

[The Buddha]

The J rod will have to get into one of the fluid holes and sorta sit there.
Yes air impact ratchet may work ... it did in one of mine ... on the other ... it didn't ...
Heat will cut through loctite ... you can heat the bolt with a torch ... but careful, aluminum all around ... will melt and run if you screw up ...
Cool.
Buddha.

[Gigawitz]

I took mine apart using a tapered broom stick. Just taper the end of a broom stick so it jams in the round part down in the slider, hammer it in tight, and keep downward pressure on it while you loosen the allen bolt.

[SNsSuzuki]

buy a allen bit that will attach to a ratchet(preferably for a 1/2 ratchet)
then go to any garage and ask them to zip the bolt out of the bottom of the fork

some air tools are worth soooooo much more than they cost

I ran around to OSH and Home Depot today... I couldn't believe they didn't have the simpliest little bit for pricesly what you're talking about.

I actually just took my allen wrench and had a guy at OSH hack saw it off. I have a power tool that I borrowed from my father so I'll see if that will break the bolt free.

The J rod will have to get into one of the fluid holes and sorta sit there.
Yes air impact ratchet may work ... it did in one of mine ... on the other ... it didn't ...
Heat will cut through loctite ... you can heat the bolt with a torch ... but careful, aluminum all around ... will melt and run if you screw up ...
Cool.
Buddha.

Thanks for the tip on that. If it gets to that, I'll probably just take my forks to a shop, dish out the cash, and have them finish the rebuild for me and be done with it.

I took mine apart using a tapered broom stick. Just taper the end of a broom stick so it jams in the round part down in the slider, hammer it in tight, and keep downward pressure on it while you loosen the allen bolt.

I originally though about hammering something down into it, but would that damage anything?

Thanks everyone for the help!

[The Buddha]

You do know you can get the seals out without breaking the damping rod out of it right ...
1-2 ... 10 ways ...
Remove all the spring and what not and fill it with fluid and put cap back on ... like fill to the top ... you can actually use diesel if you prefer ... then tighten the cap fully, and just press the damn thing ... oh yea, get the dust caps, and the retaining clip etc etc out ... the pressure of the fluid will get the seal come flying out ... that is exactly how your seal blew BTW ...
The second option is ... you can get it pried out with a pick.
Cool.
Buddha.

[SNsSuzuki]

You do know you can get the seals out without breaking the damping rod out of it right ...
1-2 ... 10 ways ...
Remove all the spring and what not and fill it with fluid and put cap back on ... like fill to the top ... you can actually use diesel if you prefer ... then tighten the cap fully, and just press the damn thing ... oh yea, get the dust caps, and the retaining clip etc etc out ... the pressure of the fluid will get the seal come flying out ... that is exactly how your seal blew BTW ...
The second option is ... you can get it pried out with a pick.
Cool.
Buddha.

Sorry I'm a little confused. You want me fill the fork tube with a fluid and just compress the tube up and down and this will make the oil seal come out?

[The Buddha]

Yea ... fill it and press it a few times etc while filling ... it needs to have as little air as possible ... Once its all fluid ... almost all ... a good press down will leave the fluid with nowhere to go and the massive pressure will push the seal out ... in the models equipped with schrader valve, you can put 20-30 psi air in it and it will do the same thing. Yea ... messy, but does work ...
Cool.
Buddha.

[SNsSuzuki]

Yea ... fill it and press it a few times etc while filling ... it needs to have as little air as possible ... Once its all fluid ... almost all ... a good press down will leave the fluid with nowhere to go and the massive pressure will push the seal out ... in the models equipped with schrader valve, you can put 20-30 psi air in it and it will do the same thing. Yea ... messy, but does work ...
Cool.
Buddha.

Oooo. So I should take out the dust seal and snap ring obviously right? lol

So let me walk this through in my head, sorry:

-Remove dust seal and snap ring... I could prob fish out the snap ring with a paper clip or something right?

-Fill up fork tube with something (could I use water or is that bad?) until it can't go anymore

-Built up pressure from tube will pop the oil seal up and up and up until it's visible on the fork tube and I can just slide it off.

Is that basically how it'll go? haha

Thanks for the help Buddha.

-Steven

[The Buddha]

The seal clip needs to be removed with a screwdriver.
Then ... do not use water ... use diesel, or gasoline ... somehting that can clean too ... motoroil is OK as well, but it has to be pretty thin ... it has to get past the teflon ... which a thin oil will very easy, not thicker stuff.
BTW you can also get the seal out with a pick or a set of wood screws ... kinda like a corkscrew ...
Cool.
Buddha.

[SNsSuzuki]

The screw technique sounds like a good idea and easier to try first. If I try to pick at the oil seal, wouldn't that just push it down more or is the seal that tight that you can apply a downward pressure on it?

You've been a great help man... Was going to take it to a shop today but may not need to if this works. Def gonna give this a try after I get home from class 

-Steven

[The Buddha]

Seal got nowhere to go ... under it is a flat washer, under which there is 2 guide bushings ... nowhere to go ... just dont go and tear up the leg though ... if you do, you will never get it sealed again .. .adios. Potentially you screw in a wodd screw ... 3 of them like a triangle and you could hit the flat washer as as you turn it more it can lift the seal up and out. Like the seal will climb the screw and screw wont sink more due to hitting a metal opject ... may wanna start with a little blunted screw though ...
BTW I have never done this ... I have done the air thing ... so I can extrapolate it to why fluid will work in the absense of a schrader valve ... but this is a theory ...
Cool.
Buddha.