Who are you voting for, for President?

[quiktaco]

Also, how is Cuba his heritage?  He was born in Hawaii to a Kenyan man and white woman.  His dad left them when he was 2 and he only saw him once after that.  He later moved to Indonesia and attended schools in Jakarta.  Then in the fifth grade returned to Hawaii to live with his Mother's parents.  He then moved to LA, NY, and Chicago.

I don't see anywhere that he ever lived in Cuba, or that he has a Cuban lineage.  Che Guevara was a Cuban Communist and Mass Murderer.  What reasons does he have for hanging that flag?  He should have flags of Charles Manson hanging along side the other ones.

Oh, also, all the homes in America would have to be torn down and reconstructed, cause it wouldn't be fair for Joe Blow to live in a 2000 sq ft home when Susie Shmow lives in a 1200 sq ft home.  And location is an issue also.  Cause Bettie Shmuch lives on a cliff over looking the ocean, and Joshua Dumbass lives next to a factory and has no view.

Here's something for you pro-communists

[quiktaco]

I found this posted by Mirage V2.0 AWOL on Answerbag.com.  For the most part I agree with this person. 

In theory, communism is fine.
In practice it overlooks human nature.
The State should not be the ultimate authority.
There are too few ethical restrictions on corrupt leaders, and power does corrupt.
Lazy people have no incentive to participate.
Creative people have little incentive to participate.
Given the last two, you have a stagnant system where progress is minimal, at best.
It is a system where only those talented or favored people are rewarded by the State. While the remainder live at subsistence level.

If you disagree, give me one example of a prosperous communist state.

[quiktaco]

Liberal                                                                                                                                                  Conservative
Dictatorship>Marxism>Communism>Socialism>Democrat<------>Republican>Libertarian>Complete Anarchy / No government
Total Control   <------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------>  Total Freedom

I don't know why Democrats want to be controlled, freedom is having the choice to do what you please (within ethical/moral reason).

[natedawg120]

did i say i was pro communism. nope - assumptions suck

[natedawg120]

ill give obama credit, in laymans terms, hes got the looks, and the smarts, but again, i know not much about him. and i see no evidence, that teh left keeps saying Mccain will continute bush. i see only opinions. or partial quotes, posted to support the posters viewpoints  , know what, heh i see htis every four years on this forum. this will make my seoncd pres election ive read through here. and barring banishment, ill see it again in 4 more years

and finally I agree, election shenanigans on the moto forum woohoo 

[quiktaco]

I didn't say that you specifically were.  They do suck don't they.  I was just putting that out there for those that are.  You are, however, defending that form of government, so where do you stand?

I don't want this to turn into a war or people being angry, just a friendly debate on these issues.  I know these are things that we all get heated about, and I'm sorry if any of my posts are offending.

I've never really been able to get into the mind of a liberal person and I'd really like to know what they think about and why.  When ever I've talked with them about these issues, they never answer, just attack.  Please share your rational if you are liberal minded.

[natedawg120]

I reckon I am more on the liberal side of things.  I wasn't defending socialism just curious as to why you thought it was so bad and I agree with the response you gave, I like being rewarded for working hard, not just getting my portion of the pie no matter how hard I work.  And you don't have to much worry about offending me, I always pipe up and if something really gets to me take it off the forum to PM. 

The way I see Obama is he is not a perfect candidate but is the best right now.  I tend to vote for who i think is best not on party or the other and right now that is Obama to me.  What he says he wants to do is what a lot of people want to hear right now, that is why i am hesitant to support him all out but i know i do not support McCain and all.  I have had enough of Bush and I think McCain will continue what Bush started and honestly i don't see the point anymore.  I also admit i am not the most informed individual about politics but i am not dumb either.  I just think you are hasty to judge Obama on things that in a presidency are not all that important.  Sure maybe the Cuban flag is not the best and portrays a muderous bastard but that's not all that flag stands for.

The simple fact is that no two people think alike, and sometimes we all have to agree to disagree

[quiktaco]

The simple fact is that no two people think alike, and sometimes we all have to agree to disagree

Perfectly stated.


I don't think McCain is a great candidate either, but is more on the side of individual freedoms, that I and my family hold dear.

I don't think this war should continue forever either; I just had my best friend return home after his second tour in Iraq, and he doesn't want to return.  The media inflates what is really happening over there, and make that such a forefront issue.  However, things are getting very calm, and things are getting close to being turned over to their government.  However, like with any and almost all countries that we have ever gone into, we will now and always have troops residing in those areas.  That's part of the reason why we are the most powerful country in the world, and partly why we do have the freedoms that we have.  If it wasn't for the media, do you really think you would have even realized that we are in the middle of a war?  Not me, my days haven't changed.  That's the luxury that we have in America.

There are many, many other issues that concern me beyond the war, however.


I have a serious question as to why you are more on the liberal side.  What issues do you hold dear, and things that you feel strongly about that you personally get from a Liberal president as opposed to a Conservative one?

[Mandres]

I want an end to the war in Iraq and an end to the U.S.'s projection of military power across the globe.  Does that make me liberal-minded in your point of view?  Because arguments about gun control laws, abortion, welfare programs, etc. are small potatoes.  We can talk about them once we've put and end to the federal government's squandering trillions of tax dollars, building an absolutely astonishing pile of debt to foreign investors, and throwing away American lives in a pointless war for the benefit of big business lobbyists.  

I don't care of Obama has a poster of Jeffrey Dahmer on his wall.  I don't care if he likes to molest kittens in his spare time.  I really don't care what the pastor of his church has to say about anything.  I cannot vote for McCain because he has made it abundantly clear that he is comfortable with more war, under the bullshit rhetoric of "national defense" and "war on terror" and will continue the same NeoConservative foreign relations policy.  He is funded by and entangled with the very same groups that led us where we are now; on the path to national bankruptcy.  

[quiktaco]

No, not completely.  There are many different views on many different issues that span across both sides.  I want an end to the war, also.  However, I don't think we should stop having military presence in other countries.

What Obama, as well as McCain, believes in, and what they have done in his past, and people they associate with and look to for guidance, makes up who they are as a people, and how they will rule this country.  If you don't look at all of that information with a judgmental eye, then you are overlooking the person, and looking at democrat or republican.  These things are necessary to make a well educated choice, based on more than just party affiliation.

[trumpetguy]

Quiktaco,
Thank you for admitting that your statement "Obama is a Marxist" was a lie.  For once we agree.  Please do not spread any more lies about candidates.

As you are a self-admitted conservative Christian, let me ask you "When would Jesus lie?"

You are seriously deluded if you perceive that liberals want a dictatorship.  We are closer to a dictatorship in the USA than we have ever been, and we have neocons at the helm.  Opening your eyes would be a good thing.  I don't anticipate that it will happen...

[quiktaco]

I didn't admit it was a lie.  I said that he isn't a self proclaimed Marxist, but I still believe that he is, or at least fairly close to it.

I also ask you to not try to propose that I am a hipocrite and such.  All humans are sinners, and we all lie, cheat and steal.  We all have vices and evil thoughts.  So my answer to "When would Jesus lie?"  - He never would, because he is the Son of God and is perfect.  All I can do as an inperfect human is to live in his image, but you have to also realize what I said previously, I am not perfect, nor any other Christinn.  No Christian claims to be, but they do claim to be saved by the blood of Christ, which washed away our sins in the eyes of God, so that we may have eternal life in Heaven.

I didn't say that liberals want a dictatorship, however, liberal views tend to be more controlling of government, and tend to tax more, and have more initiatives, and programs to help those who are too lazy to help themselves.

I know that the US is very close to a dictatorship, however it is not.  It does have checks and balances, that will always keep it from getting that far.

[trumpetguy]

He isn't admittedly a Marxist, but a Democrat.

Says it all.  Earlier you said he was a Marxist.  Which is it?

[quiktaco]

I said that he isn't a self proclaimed Marxist, but I still believe that he is, or at least fairly close to it.

I have proven this throughout this post with many references that you are welcome to check out on your own.  And by all means, do so.

It looks like you are just trying to attack me.  Do you not have anything constructive to add to this conversation?

[trumpetguy]

So if I said McCain was admittedly not a Fascist, but a Republican, that would be constructive?

Let me ask you to consider that being a Republican or voting Republican is not the only option open to someone who considers themself a Christian.  Ask who Jesus would have invaded pre-emptively.  Ask how Jesus would torture prisoners of war.  Ask who Jesus would wiretap illegally.  All those things were done by the party in power now, and the party you plan to vote for again.

And I never called you a hypocrite.  I'll leave that to other readers to decide.

[yamahonkawazuki]

definition of  neocon

Noun 1. neocon - a conservative who subscribes to neoconservatism
neoconservative
conservative, conservativist - a person who is reluctant to accept changes and new ideas

now how are the people you define as neocon, or isthat your opinion

[quiktaco]

I gave backing and references to my claims. Your claims are out of thin air and have no credibility. Now, if Jesus were running I'd vote for him, but he's not. Also, I never said I was voting for McCain. i just said that I'm not voting for Obama. If you want to have a credible part in this discussion, please give some references that we can check out. You were implying that I was a hypocrite. so I will now ask you to stop attacking my religion. it shows vast immaturity on your part to attack my religion when the rest of us are having an adult conversation.

[yamahonkawazuki]

Trust me, anything which is attackable is. BUT c'mon gstwinners, so far weve kept this thread out of teh TF. so far we've been mostly civil. can we keep it this way, im actually enjoying this thread. and so far, ive not met any close minded liberals/conservatives/socialists etc etc etc

[quiktaco]

Trust me, anything which is attackable is. BUT c'mon gstwinners, so far weve kept this thread out of teh TF. so far we've been mostly civil. can we keep it this way, im actually enjoying this thread. and so far, ive not met any close minded liberals/conservatives/socialists etc etc etc

Thank you yama

[trumpetguy]

Maybe it's because I am a Conservative Christian man, that he just leaps out as a bad person.

Quiktaco,
You are the one who brought your religion into this discussion.  I personally believe in the Constitution of the USA which says a candidate's religious beliefs will not be a test for office.   I also believe strongly in separation of Church and State -- we don't need a theocracy here.  They seem to like it in Afghanistan, however.

I want you to understand that I am not attacking your religion.  However, I am pointing out that many people who claim publicly to be Christian do very non-Christian things.  The current president and vice-president are good examples.  McCain represents a continuation of their disastrous policies.  McCain has joked "bomb, bomb, bomb -- bomb, bomb, Iran"  -- is that representative of your Christianity?  I hope not.

I don't want you to represent that BECAUSE you are a Christian you cannot vote for Obama.  That is ludicrous, as are many of your accusations about Obama.  I appreciate that you have retracted several of those statements, but I hope that you will be more selective about what you choose to read and listen to -- you're being fed a lot of BS and you're believing it.