Who are you voting for, for President?

[jserio]

maybe the cue cards were written wrong. 

[yamahonkawazuki]

But for a guy with that high of an IQ tho. things liek this jus dont happen

[jserio]

   i wasn't personally there, so i can't attest to what was on his mind at the time.

[Toogoofy317]

Honestly, he seemed freaking exhausted in that clip. I mean he didn't even notice when the reporters started laughing! In my many years of public speaking I have fubared some pretty innocent sentences. Such as to my manager by mistake (East Ass office this is Mary speaking how may I help you) instead of (East Cast office this is Mary speaking how may I help you). When the whole office bursted out in laughter and my manager was eerily silent I was still confounded as to what I had said was so funny. My brain said "cast" my mouth said "ass". Eh, it happens but thanks to You tube you get to relive your mistake over and over and over!

Mary

[quiktaco]

Yeah, seems he was pretty tired.  I'm sure he meant 47, with 1 left to go, and not being able to go to Alaska and Hawaii makes the 50.

[yamahonkawazuki]

lmao
mary been there done that

[quiktaco]

Well, there's so much to talk about.

Dems turning on Libs against health care reform - You know the one that won't cost anyone anything but will give everyone (even illegals) the same 'quality' care.  We'll just have to wait in line for it for up to 3 years!  (and guess what...it's not going to be quality care.  It'll be rationing out of tests, surgeries, everything else.  Only the healthiest will get the best care.  if you are old and need care, good luck.  Please, everyone who has grandparents that are still alive, go visit with them.  Life expectancy will dramatically decrease if this were to go into effect.  Canada has a 16% higher death rate for their cancer patients.  And this is what Obama is framing our HC reform after.  

I have a big issue on this health care reform.  A few years ago, if I lived in England or Canada, I would have been dead.  It's as simple as that.

It was about 3-4 years ago.  Woke up fine, and went through the morning like a normal day.  Soon after getting ready for the day, I started to get pains in my upper right abdominal cavity.  Also started to have flu like symptoms.  So we went to the Urgi center at Kaiser.  I was checked in and took all my vitals and everything.  Then saw a doctor within about 15 minutes.  Doctor examined the pain and where it was.  Ran a few top priority tests.  And it was pointing toward the gallbladder.  Now this was odd, since gallbladder issues usually come from 'Female/Fat/over Forty.'  So since I'm a male/fit/ and 24 at the time.  No one would have guessed that it was a gallbladder issue.  I pushed them to  to one more test with an ultrasound to see what was going on inside.

From what was found, I was prepped for surgery right away, and sent to the OR.  

Come to find out that my Gallbladder was inflamed to about 3 times the normal size, and it was severely infected and the infection had attached itself to part of my liver.  The Gallbladder had to be removed, and part of the liver had to be taken out to get rid of the infected parts.

It was a tough recovery from this unexpected medical scare.  But it's been about 3-4 years since then, and I am nearly 100% recovered from it.

________________________________________________

Now living in Canada, what I would expect out of this same situation...

Go in with the same flu like symptoms, and pain in my abdomen.  They say I have the flu and give me some antiviral medication to be on for a week or so.  So about 2 days after I went home, I collapse on the ground...dead.   No one knew (or even cared to find out), that my gallbladder was severely infected, and was swollen to 3x it's normal size.  Only was a couple days until it burst, and would mean the end of my life.

__________________________________________________

It's simple, everyday things just like that.  That should be the easiest way to see how this health care reform won't work.  We need to think about this people.  Seriously think about this.  I know I would be dead and gone if all this was implemented 5 years ago.  I also know that non citizens would be getting treatment prior to citizens all the time.

______________________________

We still can stop this Health Care Reform.  We just need to make sure we contact out state's congressmen.  They need to know that the american people DO NOT want this.

[jserio]

so you're saying we don't need to find a way to make healthcare more affordable for everyone? i'm confused by your posting. (sucks to hear about your health issue) i heard someone on the radio say something about this, and what he said seems to ring true. he said we have two sides with this debate. we have the side that is saying if we don't reform health care, it's the end of the world and everyone will die. and the other side says if we do go forward with the proposed healthcare reform, it will be the end of the world and everyone will die. there is no middle ground it seems from eithe side. how the hell is that a way to accomplish anything? the issue is one that is not going away and we need to find a solution to this problem.

[quiktaco]

I'll try to explain it as clearly as I see it.

Don't do anything...
- (we're not all dying right now are we?  We have some of the best medical care in the world.  That's why people flock here if they want a second opinion)
- They say that something like 20% is uninsured, however that number has been proven wrong.  It's considerably lower, however, it's still not a good thing being even at 10%
- Problem is, they are counting in illegal aliens (which aren't citizens, don't pay taxes, and have no right to US healthcare) into those numbers as well
- If we don't do anything, what will really happen, is everyone that has had, and had to find a way to pay for healthcare in the past will do the same.  However, there are many many many issues that need to be addressed, because it's costing everyone way to much.  Things like frivolous lawsuits, which are forcing doctors to have malpractice insurance.  All those costs are passed onto the patients....and it's expensive for them to get, which means it's expensive for us to get insurance.  Most of these things are frivolous lawsuits, and a great deal less are actual malpractice issues.  Another is forced name brand medication by many places.  Generic should be easily available, and the big pharmaceutical companies need to stop poking the public for all it's got, just cause it has a drug that the people need.  Yes, still implement supply and demand, cause that's what makes this country great, but when you start reducing the supply to drive up demand...especially for something like medicine, that's just wrong.
- Now there's all the medicare and medicaid waste that is happening on a daily basis.  There's waste, fraud, corruption to the extremes.  These are just a taste of what universal care will be.
- There's a ton more, but it would take to long to list...basically, we just need to cut the fat out of the current way things are done, and that would lower the cost for everyone.


Do implement Obama's plan...
- This is really scary if you haven't thought about it yet.  It's been proven in Canada, in England, and even here in the US in a few places, and anywhere else socialized medicine has been in place.  It doesn't work!
- So, specifically why, when there is a net care for everyone, that means that there will be issues such as who gets what, cause everyone can't get everything.  Say I'm 65, I'm in good health other than I need a knee replacement.  but there's this guy that's 40 and in good health too.  He needs a knee replacement as well, but the national budget can't afford to let everyone get it, cause it's costing the tax payers already most of their paychecks, but it still can't keep up with the cost for everyone, the fraud, the corruption, and everything else.  So the 40 year old gets it, leaving the 65 year old to go without.  Now because of that Mr 65 is going to get other problems because it's going to travel into his hips, and he's soon going to need to be in a wheelchair (which he'll have to end up paying for himself, because wheelchairs go to younger people who need them more)
-  The next problem is that Mr 40 year old wasn't even a US citizen.  Mr Obama wants to give everyone medical care whether they are a citizen or not, so too bad Mr 65 who fought and served in WW11 (would he be old enough), Korea, Vietnam, and Afghanistan.
-  Did you know that Obama hasn't even read the bill that he's trying to pass through?  Yeah, as of yesterday he hadn't at least.  There is so much CRAP in it that it's unbelievable.  It's just like the 'Stimulous' Bill.  It's filled with all of the liberals earmarks, and random spending things, and very very little to actually help the economy.
-  Like on the other one, there's a lot more for this section too, but you can find that elsewhere.


So, in simple terms...Keep what we have now, we'll live, but it will be a high cost (as it is now) to be insured, and there will be a small amount of the US population that will still be uninsured, because they choose to be for the most part.  It's like car insurance, you've got to have it, but many choose not to pay for it.  It's just something you have to get.

Do Obama's plan, get crappy medical care, long lines (like up to 3 years for non serious things), have the government tell your doctors what you can have done.  And all for the cost of maybe around...lets say 20 dollars a visit.  However you're also now paying out close to 60% of your paycheck in taxes.  That's so Mr lazy down the road can have health insurance too.  And don't kid yourself that we won't get taxed more.  They're anticipating California's tax to be the highest in the world...higher than Sweden!  And this is all for worse coverage, with worse doctors, with longer wait times, high death rate, lower life expectancy.

If we don't do anything, it's going to stay a little expensive.  What needs to happen is to cut all the fat out of everything, and that will make it affordable for everyone.

If we change to Obama's, it's still going to be expensive, but eventually you just won't notice it, cause the money you worked so hard for is being taken out before you ever see it.  Plus there will be even more corruption, and fraud, and everything else that goes with government run systems.

[Toogoofy317]

Taco you were lucky they caught it that's all. They do the same thing. I had chest pain one day went into my PCP office with the cp and sob did an EKG was abnormal. Doctor said you are 21, female, and 35% of all Americana have abnormal EKGs. It is a panic attack here is a script for Paxil and a shot of Valium go home and rest. Two days later I was at work. Chest pain was soo bad after a show it dropped me to my knees. Medics come out oh your 21 and on Paxil its an anxiety attack lets walk around for 15 minutes to make it calm down. I finally begged them to take me to the hospital. I sat in the ED for over 6 hours before they even hooked up an EKG to me. Finally, after 3 days and waiting 6 days someone did an x-ray. Heart was twice the size it should be! My PCP walks in "I don't believe you have a heart problem because your a woman and your age and your fitness"  Well, he's not my PCP anymore.

The cardiologist that was called in said I need to see a specialist specialist because my heart problem is rare. So, I got to Shands at University of Florida. Dr. told me that since I wasn't obstructed that my heart problem really wasn't a problem and I could live my life however I wanted including being an EMT. Thank God for the HCMA I called the president and explained what was going on. She (not a dr.) called a Dr. in Boston and explained to him what was going on and he got upset. He called my local cardiologist explaining I needed to get up to Boston and be evaluated properly. Even with the blessing of the local cardio it took four months to get the insurance to approve it! I got up to Boston he ran a couple of test he didn't even finish all of the test he did my "echo" and said you need an AICD and soon. Well, I couldn't get it right then thanks to insurance so I had to go back to Florida and fight with insurance another month and a half! Then the day before I'm to fly out on a Friday I get a call from the insurance company saying my approval had been rescinded because my primary doctor (husband and wife) team were getting divorced. WTF are you serious? I argued with them all that day and then when I got into Boston finally the doc up there was able to get it pushed through. So, it took me almost a year just to get proper treatment and a device that is a life saving device. What would have happened if I had gone into an arrythmia in that nine months? More than likely I would not have been typing this today.

I'm not saying that socialized is better I dunno I haven't personally experienced it so I can't judge it. But I  have experienced this system and it IS broken!

I personally believe that the government institute a mandatory physical each year. And they pay for that so that we  catch disease befoer they become severe where it costs more money.Then we have our traditional healthcare still in place but it gives everyone the chance to keep tabs on their health.

As far as disability goes do you know how hard it is to actually get on disability? I had to fight for over three years to get it! I was turned down while in the hospital being evaluated for a heart transplant! You are educated so you can't be disabled! The fraud comes in with the doctors offices fraudulentlly charging for services they did not render.

I think there should still be malpractice cases because doctors do screw up and royaly I might add! But, I believe if it is deemed a friviolous suit the lawyer should have to pay all court costs etc.. not have them pass it down to the patient. There are so many commercials on TV about this (sokolov comes to mind here) and that saying if you've ever had heparin for example you can sue! WTF if you've had surgery you've most likely had heparin how is that malpractice!

There is no easy answer!

Mary

[yamahonkawazuki]

i dont liek the term " rationing body" ( contained within hte bill. id fal outside care there. ) and im not htat broken yet, i have to self pay my way into a doc to get my back looked at. and heck aroudn here soonest i can get in is sep14, , tryin NC and other places as well. if i canget in sooner.  yes the system needs help not ( after reading the bill. ) not that way

[jserio]

healthcare reform is a SERIOUS issue. there are going to have to be concessions on both sides. i'm sick of the stubborn-ness by our leaders always thinking that there is just one way to do something and that their way is always right and the other side must be wrong because they don't agree. this is no way to get anything really accomplished. what the hell, aren't these people supposed to be "educated" 

[yamahonkawazuki]

healthcare reform is a SERIOUS issue. there are going to have to be concessions on both sides. i'm sick of the stubborn-ness by our leaders always thinking that there is just one way to do something and that their way is always right and the other side must be wrong because they don't agree. this is no way to get anything really accomplished. what the hell, aren't these people supposed to be "educated" 

indeed. well written my friend, well written

[quiktaco]

I don't know if everyone will agree with me, but socialism, at the root, has always tried to make things equal amongst the working class, while, keeping the elite class raised up.  Socialized health care is just one more way that they are accomplishing it.  It makes the working class have the same basic (read: poor) health care with no chance of having superior care.  While the elite can have private physicians who are the best of the best.  It's just one more thing that keeps the middle class as low as possible, and the upper class as high as possible.

I'm not saying that there aren't huge/giant/extreme problems with the current system.  It is horrible, and needs to be fixed.  However, doing what they are trying to do is just moronic.

It's like Farrari (the US heathcare system) is trying to redo things with the inspiration of the Geo Metro (universal care) in mind.  Yeah, the Geo Metro gets better gas mileage, but that's not what it's all about.

[quiktaco]

And that's not supposed to sound like The Man is keeping me down

I just want to be free.  I want everyone else to be free.  This will push the good doctors out of practice, and won't encourage many new doctors in the future.  It's a self destructing machine.  If doctors pay gets cut, what's the incentive.  Those future medical students will become engineers, or who knows what else.

[Toogoofy317]

There are good doctors now  It is the Insurance companies that are raping everyone. As a matter of fact I got this letter just in today!

We, WellCare Health Plan, recently received a claim for ambulance-land services provided to you by Rural Metro Ambulace on -5/-6/09. We will not pay for ambulance-land services in the amount of $323.95 because a prior authorization is required but was not obtained.

Sooo, now when I have chest pain and shortness of breath with my heart problem I have to call them first to get permission to be transported to the hospitaL! Yup that is great healthcare

Mary

[jserio]

wtf?? i'd be all over the top of someone's desk with both arms swinging.....that's just plain f%$king moronic! bet if ya had plenty 'o coin they wouldn't be pullin that shaZam!. fuckin rat bastards. 



(end of rant)

[quiktaco]

I totally agree with that.  Insurance companies are raping everyone.  But it's also because there's too much fraud, and they need to cover themselves.  It is a business, and people need to make money, and when they're paying out tons in fraudulent claims, it forces rates to go up and more restrictions, and fraud checks.  But don't get me wrong...I'm not defending them, I'm just stating the fact that they are a business too...they just need more competition so that prices get driven down.  (Which by the way is what the other side is proposing - opening up state specific insurance so there's competition between the different state companies as well)

And that's terrible that they are denying to pay for the ambulance, that is one of the worst things I've ever heard.  I'm sure if a big enough fuss was brought about about it, it might get resolved.  Imagine the local paper or news station saying "____ insurance company refuses to pay for ambulance which was called for an emergency"

[yamahonkawazuki]

There are good doctors now  It is the Insurance companies that are raping everyone. As a matter of fact I got this letter just in today!

We, WellCare Health Plan, recently received a claim for ambulance-land services provided to you by Rural Metro Ambulace on -5/-6/09. We will not pay for ambulance-land services in the amount of $323.95 because a prior authorization is required but was not obtained.

Sooo, now when I have chest pain and shortness of breath with my heart problem I have to call them first to get permission to be transported to the hospitaL! Yup that is great healthcare

Mary

They would LOVE that in the paper mary , i had an issue like htat almost 6 years ago. ( before i lost my insurance) i wrote them back with a photocopied letter they sent. and said in quotes, " IM quite sure. hte papers, media, and the internet would LOVE a copy of this.  next time im dying. ill be sure to hold off hte grim reaper to get permission for transport, ( was near a a coma at the time ) htey decided not worth the press theyd recieve, and reconsidered their opinion

[trumpetguy]

There is nothing SOCIALIST about the current plan (which is still being worked out in compromise as we speak).  Doctors will be employed by themselves or by clinics as they currently are.  Private insurance will still cover most people.  Hospitals will not be owned or operated by the government.  To call this bill socialized medicine is intellectual dishonesty at its finest.  I'm sick of the partisan lies distributed by the rightwing attack machine.

That said, it is a shame that single-payer coverage is not even on the table.  It would be more cost-effective.  Unfortunately, the healthcare industry owns enough congressmen on both sides of the aisle that what (IMHO) is best for American people is not even being considered.  A gigantic MISinformation campaign is being waged by the industry and by brainwashed conservatives.  I have received several email forwards filled with lies about the bill.

This bill is designed to try to cover as many of the uninsured as possible at the lowest cost to the taxpayer as possible.  82% of Americans see the need for major healthcare reform.  What's not to like?