new LED signal problem...

[LOUiE]

I've done a search but can't come up with a similar problem & solution...

so...I've installed new LED signals.  Look great!  just don't work! haha

When I signal either left or right all signals turn on.

(Any ideas? I'm 96% sure the wiring is correct)

Could it be a flasher problem?

thanks!

[LOUiE]

Another possibility is all four indicators coming on at once! This has been reported here also and is evident when you look at the schematic. All 5 lamps are passing some current when blinking

found this in the FAQ, but suprisingly no answer...

[the mole]

Check you have a good earth back to the battery at each of the lamps, this is a classic symptom of a bad earth. If one side signals get power but it can't get to earth, then the current travels back through the other side via the indicator lamp on the panel and they all light up. I've had this a couple of times over the years.
May be exacerbated by the low current draw of the LEDs, which means that rather than the normal higher current bridging a high resistance earth, its 'easier' for it to use the low resistance of the indicator lamp/other side signals as the earth path.

[LOUiE]

you'll have to excuse my ignorance... I'm not much of an electrician    but what is the best way to figure out if all the lamps are grounded properly?

just some more info....
The signals I bought have 2 wires, the stock signals I took out had 3, but only 2 connected.

Also noticed, that when attempting to signal left, the left signals are brighter than the right signals... and visa-versa.

[the mole]

OK, if the side you're selecting is brighter than the other, that pretty much confirms the diagnosis of bad earth.
One of the wires at each signal lamp gets power when you select that side turn signal, the other wire should be permanently earthed ie. connected back to the negative side of the battery. Somewhere there is a break in that connection. The positive wire on one side is green (I forget which side is which, doesn't matter), the other side is black. The negative(earth) wires for both sides are black and white. If you test the resistance with a multimeter from the negative(black/white) wire at each lamp to the negative terminal on the battery you should have close to zero resistance.
If you don't have/can't use a multimeter you just need to check that all the connections in the black/white wires from the signal lamps back to the battery are good, not corroded etc.
should be an easy fix.

EDIT: Wait up while I do a bit of thinking.......

EDIT: well, i thunk and:

I think your problem is that you have installed LED lamps. On the left side, try disconnecting the LED lamps  and reconnect your old ones (you don't have to physically unbolt them, just change the connections over) Now switch on the right signal, should work normally. Switch on left signal and you should get left and right signals, but no indicator light on the panel.
If all the above is true and you want to keep your leds, you're going to have to change something!
The problem is that the indicator lamp on the panel works by being connected to both side signals and it relies on that bulb having a higher resistance than the two signal lamps. What happens is when you select left signal, the current flows through the indicator lamp and earths through the right signal lamps. This won't work with leds because the leds have a higher resistance than the signal lamp.
More in a while.....

[starwalt]

This has been covered at length in the FAQ on LEDs.

Mole's analysis is partially correct. LEDs use about 1000 times less current than filament lamps. The GS control circuitry was never designed for LEDs, thus it is a mod/hack to make them work.

Frankly I don't see the advantage unless you are able to put LEDs in that are twice as bright as the lamps.

In the FAQ linked to, there are simplified schematics for the turn signal circuit. Some people have had success with newer load independant turn signal relays. Again, pour over the FAQ and bounce back if you haven't sorted it out.

[LOUiE]

Thanks for your input guys, the help is truly appreciated.

I've read MANY times over the FAQ on LEDs.  I think I'm starting to understand the issues at hand.  That said, I find it hard to believe that there isn't a worth-while solution floating around somewhere.  Our bikes can't be the only ones with this (or a similar) problem.

There's a great shop in town that focuses on mods and performance parts, I think I'm going to run it by them and see what they think.  It might be worth the few dollars.  The old signals are just too ugly for me.

thanks again!

If I get something to work, I'm sure you'll hear from me.
L.

[the mole]

Yeah, I should have checked other resources here before trying to go it alone. I'm sure it can be made to work, but is it worth the bother if you are not electrically knowledgable? If the flasher relay will still flash with the low load, you could get the signals to work independantly by just disconnecting the indicator lamp in the panel(pull the bulb), but then you won't know they're flashing. A ballast resistor in parallel with the light on each side would fix it and the indicator would still work normally too. You'd need a load the same as the original lamps. Probably details elsewhere here, I haven't looked yet. Or just throw them all away and use your hands to indicate! When I started riding, bikes didn't have indicators (or electric start  or more than 4 gears or handling ).
Yeah, i'm an old fart.

[rylon]

I had several issues installing my led signals and integrated tail light, here is an excerpt from a previous post with details about how I have it wired.  Let me know if I can be of any more help.

I have all LED signal and a LED break light, and they all work.  I have a similar relay to the original one you bought (I'll check later and verify part number) and installed 12V diodes to the turn signal indicator in the dash.

Here is a diagram for all the turn signals



And here is a diagram of where I added my 12V diodes



I also had issues while trouble shooting my blinkers as a result of my battery needing a charge (it was dead cause the bike was sitting for a while while getting upgrades/repairs)  So that may be something else to check if it applies to your situation.

Hope this helps

Edit:  The relay that I have is a Blazer 552/536 LL two terminal variable load relay.  I tried the original 552 relay and it didn't work, could be blown as a result of my trouble shooting.

Rylon

[sledge]

This issue has been discussed to death in here  Every pack of LED indicators I have seen includes a proviso in the instructions or on the box that states the standard OEM relay may not be suitable for use with LED indicators.........maybe in the enthusiasm to fit them, this little snippet of vital info is being overlooked or ignored by people  .  However, and with this in mind the answer to this issue seems pretty simple and downright obvious to me......When you buy and fit LED indicators YOU ALSO buy and fit a relay that is capable of triggering them   

something like these......
http://www.motohaus.com/acatalog/Acumen_Flasher.html
or this
http://www.fastbikebits.com/acatalog/LED_Indicators.html
or this
http://www.getgeared.co.uk/Motorcycle_Indicator_Relay_1-30W
or this
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/products/ProductDetail.asp?cls=MCYCLE&pcode=BIKWRELED01

[LOUiE]

went to the bike shop today...

Got these nifty little resistor wires.   Was told to connect one side to pos and other to neg on one left signal... and repeat same on right. (I chose to do both rear signals fo ease of hiding wires)

Did this fix it?  no! but it did cut my problems in half... the lights still don't blink, but I don't have all 4 lit up.  Only the correct ones.

I'll get some more info on these resistor wires (unless this is old news) tomorrow when I go back to the shop.

[LOUiE]

Got it fixed! and can't believe I didn't find the answer on this site!

I have a feeling the guys who got this to work before me (probably tons) didn't put down the info to do it - atleast where I could find it 

Anyways, I got the prob fixed.


Bought a $30 relay and installed it....


via these instructions...



Got some resistor wires to slow the flashing down (which wasn't that fast in the first place but since I had them I thought I'd throw them on)
My local shop just gave me a set of these... I guess if you were to buy them they'd be pretty cheap.  Connect one end of the wire to the pos side of the signal and the other end to the ground.  Repeat on the other rear signal.  Looks like this....


Bike now looks ALMOST  10 times better 

[Toogoofy317]

You could have also taken out the turn signal indicator light. That is what I had to do. I picked up a diode that is supposed to correct this problem. But, took me forever to get it done. But, yeah the resistor helps too.

Mary S.

[starwalt]

Glad to hear you have a satisfactory solution to your particular problem.

For what it is worth, you just contributed to the knowledge base here.
Congratulations! 

I'd like to vivisection those "resistor wires". My suspicion is that there is a string of resistors covered in heat shrink tubing.
I base that suspicion from the lumpy look of the stuff.

For those who are concerned, the schematic of the relay purchased does not match the OEM schematic of the GS.
As sledge mentions, this is a modification usually requiring the purchase of another device.

If I weren't so busy I'd buy one and cut it apart to see what make it "tick". 

[LOUiE]

the only important part of connecting the new relay is figuring out which wire leads to the signal switch, which is ground, and which comes from the battery. 

In my Clymer I just traced them back, cut, spliced, connected and voila.

On my bike...
Sky Blue = Power
Black/White = Ground
Orange = to signal switch

[LOUiE]

You could have also taken out the turn signal indicator light. That is what I had to do. I picked up a diode that is supposed to correct this problem. But, took me forever to get it done. But, yeah the resistor helps too.

Mary S.

yeah, i saw I could do this... but I figured there must be a way to get it done without losing the indicator light. That said, because of the position of the front signals I can actually see them BETTER than the indicator light.  They act themselves as an indicator

[sledge]

Got it fixed! and can't believe I didn't find the answer on this site!
anyways, I got the prob fixed.
Bought a $30 relay and installed it....

Can I refer you back to post #10 in this thread

[LOUiE]

Can I refer you back to post #10 in this thread

sorry, I was referring to the WIKI or FAQ.

The FAQ on LEDs doesn't really solve anything... just posts problems no solutions.

Every pack of LED indicators I have seen includes a proviso in the instructions or on the box that states the standard OEM relay may not be suitable for use with LED indicators.

this is why I tried a new relay... I figured the same thing...

The guys at my local shop here, although the work on some kickass bikes, didn't even have a solution for me until I mentioned a different relay.  So this was some important info.    

thanks all
luv this site!

[Toogoofy317]

You know I did the relay and it didn't work! I did the resistor didn't work! So, I took out the indicator lamp and joined the OCD club of constantly hitting the turn button. I have a diode that I am going to try and install and see if that will work.

Can I put in an LED in the turn signal indicator and it will work. If so how hard is it to do?

Mary S.

[the mole]

If you can fit two LEDs in the indicator hole, you wire each one to one side signal wires and to earth. Now each LED will only flash when its side signals are on, but if they're in the same hole you get the same picture as before. This eliminates any crossover of current between the two sides. Or you could mount them seperately and you'd know which side was flashing.