Fussy Start up: starter relay, kill switch, or??

[Teek]

My 2001 has had a difficult to turn ignition switch lately and it's been getting worse, I had to futz it around a little to get it to on from lock and vice versa. So I just used some white lithium grease by spraying it on the key and working the key gently in the ignition, so that part is fine now.

However, when the bike is HOT, and has sat at a pull out or a restaurant, sometimes I can NOT get it to start. It doesn't seem to matter that everything is in the correct position= in neutral, side stand up, clutch in, kill switch in on position. It all lights up fine, just will do nothing when I hit the starter switch. The bike always starts right up when cold. I thought it was the ignition switch at first because it seemed like it wasn't quite clicking into position, like it was a few hairs off, and a few times I wiggled the key and it seemed to work. Then yesterday it just wouldn't start after a 50 mile canyon ride. I had it parked at my riding buddy's for about 15 minutes, and by the time she suggested I could park it next to her 599 for the night because it just refused to start up and I was going to ask for a push, it started up (and it LIKES the 599!). I had flicked the kill switch a few times, nothing, twiddled the key around (it was still sticky yesterday) and nothing, put my foot against the side stand in case it was loose, nothing, then it suddenly lit. Starter switch maybe? I don't know what is more prone to failure on these bikes.

Is there anything that is more likely to be specific to a bike that's been run and then has sat for 15-20 minutes and having a starting problem, and doesn't when cold, like perhaps the relay? Or do I just have an ornery bike? Battery is new last December, and yesterday had started the bike cold just fine and then was just charged up by a 50 mile ride with rpms mostly at 5k - 8k, so I doubt that the battery is an issue. I know what all the various battery symptoms are. I'm guessing starter relay or starter switch??
Thanks for any ideas, and I guess I may need to start parking on slight hills.... 

[bobthebiker]

I would check for wires that are loose/vibrating against other wires or metal pieces before anything.  this sounds electrical, so break out your volt/ohm meter and test to see that you ARE IN FACT getting power and the proper amount to the right places.

[Teek]

But how would that explain for example that I'm sitting on the bike and push the starter button, nothing. Flick the kill switch, push the starter button, nothing. Turn the key a little just because, even though all the lights are on, push the starter button, nothing. As effective as pushing on my belly button. Think dang I'm gonna have to push start it, hit the start button, starts right up? And starts every time when cold, no problem???

I had an old truck years back that would lock the ignition switch up every now and then and not move until you said "Please", then it would turn. I could never explain that one either (until I learned the latest cool stuff on quantum physics). Eventually anyone who drove that truck with any regularity knew that trick well. I thought maybe this bike was either developing some weirdly similar quirk, or more realistically that something in the ignition system is failing.


But, thanks!

[DoD#i]

You certainly have an intermittent electrical problem. Those can really be annoying to track down.

The default problem is the clutch switch. i.e., when I searched on starting problems, many of them turned out to be that, as did mine, ultimately. If it's intermittent, it was easy to bypass on the 1990 - see linked thread.

Other than sheer obnoxious randomness, this does not fit well with your "always starts cold" observation, however.  One (sort-of) quick workaround (which can also be diagnostic of system issues) is to pull the rear plastic off enough to access the relay, and short the relay terminals with a wrench or screwdriver (obviously being careful not to short anything else - you just want to connect the two big screw terminals, not connect them to anything else, like the frame - that would be bad.) If it push starts or starts when you short the relay while the key and kill are on, there are only three parts it can be: the relay itself, the clutch switch, or the starter switch (or the wires in between, as in my case). If it runs, there is power on the rest of the systems which feed the starter switch and the ignition - assuming a 2001 is wired basically the same as a 1990.

http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=43024.0

The wiring diagrams should help - except yours is a 2001 - I don't know how different the wiring might be.

http://www.bbburma.net/Scans/Clymer_Electrical_StartingSystem_2.jpg

http://www.bbburma.net/Scans/Haynes_WiringDiagram_US_90-96.jpg

Given that it's intermittent, I'd try just bypassing the clutch switch to begin with, and see if the problem goes away, assuming you don't see anything obvious when you look over the wiring. Otherwise get out a meter and start testing wires.

Do you hear a click at all when trying to start? If so, it might well be the relay.

[Ickaber]

The default problem is the clutch switch...

This sounds most likely to me as well.  Mine will do this occasionally, although not quite as randomly or stubbornly, and I usually just have to release and repull the clutch a couple of times, being sure to pull it as far to the handlebar as it will go.  It goes from doing nothing to firing right up.

Good luck!

[sledge]

Whatever the problem is it seems pretty obvious its being caused by heat. With this in mind I would suspect the starter relay. My theory:......It gets hot, the coil inside expands and goes open circuit, as it cools it shrinks and makes circuit. Saw the same thing many years ago on an old BMW R45 air-head.

[Teek]

Hi Sledge, Thanks, my thought was that the relay was the primary suspect to go along with the added heat factor, and I wanted to see if anyone here would confirm that as the likeliest place to look first. If the bike sits long enough to get cold enough, it seems that it will always start. It seems to be a 5-20 minute stop, if it's a half hour or more (especially when hot outside) then it seems that it is okay. I had some trouble like that with a Ford F150 truck before. It had to sit 20 minutes before it would start, and it was the relay. The problem was it would die while it was idling in traffic! I may just order the part and swap it out.

DoD#1, thanks, I think I'll try your suggestion for narrowing it down first though by shorting the relay before I order the part. I did replace (actually my hubby did with my help, it took two of us to get the thing to work, I had to figure out what was actually wrong) my clutch lever, which in the process meant we had to adjust the tightness of the screws on the clutch switch to a tiny bit looser than stock, because the way the after market lever fit, if it was really snug it locked the little toggle in the switch in place. I've checked that, it still seems okay (we did lock the screws), and I also had the problem BEFORE I replaced the stock lever. But that's also a good point.

Ickaber, I am going to add repulling the clutch lever to the ritual of restarting until I get time to track it down. I want to ride it today, so I am just not going to intentionally park anywhere it can't sit for half an hour...   

Thanks guys!