Help me solve my car buying woes!!!!!!!

[TheGoodGuy]

So I am buying a new car soon and one would think after 3 months of pondering I would have had it settled. Well No! I still cant make my mind up. My mom relates this to me picking my bride. Regardless... lets move on.....

So initially I had the following requirements: Good gas mileage (30mpg at least), reasonable handling, good sound system, luxury features and under 27OTD.
My previous car came with windup windows and manual AC so even power door locks and mirrors = luxury for me.

I initially started with the following 7 cars: Toyota Corolla/Matrix, VW Jetta, Mazda 3s, Ford Focus, Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan, Hyundai Sonata, Honda Civic.

I quickly got rid of Toyota (not appealing), the Fusion and the Sonata (though i liked this one but it was pricey) due to price and otherwise feature packages.

I ended up with 3 cars on my list, VW Jetta SE, Mazda 3s Grand Touring and Honda Civic EX-L and then I test drove the Honda Civic Si.

So here is the problem.. I finally widdled the 3 down to 1 car but cant make my mind up on the models.

2009 Honda Civic - Both cars are Sedans, Manual Transmissions, With Navigation system.
[/b]
EX-L:
140HP, Leather Interior, Heated Seats, 87gas with 35mpg hwy (29 combined) + 5speed manual + 160W sound

Si:
197HP, Curve hugging cloth seats, 91gas with 29mpg hwy (25 combined) + limited slip diff and 6 speed manual + 350W sound

Both are under 25000 dollars and I cant make my mind up.

The whole problem is that a part of me wants that luxury with leather and gas savings and the other part goes.. 'boy racer wooo'..
Then there is the part about attracting the opposite sex.

http://automobiles.honda.com/civic/

[trumpetguy]

My opinion follows:

Why buy a 2009 anything?

Let someone else take the depreciation hit.  Buy a three-year old car, save a ton of money, never be upside down on a loan, and be able to afford a more luxurious car.

My folks own a Sonata (automatic V6) and my sister has a Sonata (auto L4).  They both love them.  Quiet, nice warranty, great on the highway.

I'm an old fogey who tends to buy an older used car in great shape and drive it until it's really old.  Currently I'm driving a 1995 Maxima that I bought for $5000 in 2003 with 125K on it.  It has 241K on it now and still runs and looks great.  I've only had to replace "normal" things -- O2 sensors, tires, small things.  Cars are pretty darned dependable these days.  My last Maxima (a 1990) was sold at 287K still running well.

[Revere2]

Honda Civic EX-L hands down. The Si needs higher octane petrol I believe and that isn't a plus. I would stay far away from Ford/Mercury, and Mazda. Build quality just isn't there compared to Honda. No way, no how. Especially a ragged ass Focus. The VW........could "eat you alive" in "little things" like tune-ups. I would check Consumer reports on that model. The Corolla is a nice ride but IMHO not as quality as the Honda. It is a head tall over all the aforementioned in my opinion. Get a Sedan. 4 door. No bullshit 2 door hassles. 4 doors have given me great peace and comfort when hauling kids and groceries and the like. That Honda Civic can be a 200,000+ mile car if you take care of it. Only bad I've heard of them is keeping an eye on the "CV" boots? They split after so many years and the joints have to get replaced if you don't catch it in time. They are long running quality vehicles.

[makenzie71]

I wouldn't buy a new anything.  Nothing.  I would go as new as 2007 but not far beyond that.  One car I've REALLY REALLY REALLY been eyeballing lately is a 2007 Grand Prix GXP.  There's one at our local Toyota lot for $18,000...of course next year it'll only be worth $11,000 but still...300+ hp out of the box...375+ hp bpu?!  That's kick ass even if it is front wheel drive.  Still gets 25~30mpg if you drive it sanely.

Outside of that I would get a 330i.  You can get a very nice 330i with a 6spd, more hp than any of the cars on your list, and have something that's built by people who know how to make sports cars for $15,000.  250hp rwd with all leather, power everything, and comes with it's own rails on the road.  Plus...think about it if you were a chick.  You going home with the guy in the flourescent blue roller-skate looking civic or the nice dressed dude in the BMW?  shaZam! works if you think about it like a guy...I'd look at the guy in the civic and kick his ass for being a retard and buying a $25,000 Honda when he could have bought a real car.  Replace the guy in the bimmer with a chick...preferably my wife because she's awesome...and I wouldn't even have to act ghey.

[spc]

I'm with Mak here, get a real car that's a few years older.

I get about 32 hwy in my XJ6 VDP and it is absolutely loaded with options, has 250rwhp and looks good doing it.  The V8 XJR's get about the mileage of an Si and have over 400hp...........and leather interiors.

[theUBS]

Buy used.  Save money.  Get whatever makes sense to you in terms of reliability / longevity / efficiency.  You can always add a custom stereo.  IMO, power options are just something else to possibly go on the fritz if you intend to keep the car a while.     Also, IMO, if the chick cares that much about what you're driving, she MAY NOT be worth it. 

[bikejunkie223]

As a master Honda technician I can say both are great cars. The Si need premium and gets less gas mileage, but looks better, handles better, and is much faster. The EX-L is a great all around car. Looking used is one way to go, but there is something to be said for buying a brand new car, just make sure you plan on keeping it for at least 4 years. If you are fickle and are just gonna want to off it in a year or so, you will get wrecked financially- though Hondas hold their resale values extremely well.

[shiznizbiz]

Take a look at the 2008 mitsubishi lancer gts.  I drove one for about a year.(my ex's car that i helped get her)  I loved it. 

[Revere2]

I've been bitten in the buttocks buying used vehicles. I always try to buy new if possible. If I actually KNEW the "little old lady next door that drove it the 20K miles that were on it, then yeah........great. I've also found that some "low mileage" vehicles are NOT sold at tremendous discounts on the lots which should be. They are NOT new. I'm a firm believer at "ME" throwing lowballs at Dealer's until I get ONE near where I want. I have no probs with "turning around and walking off" after telling what "I" will pay (after much much research on their actual (not Dealer invoice) price. I take pride in making them furiously pissed. They are notorious liars and con-men.
Back to buying new...........I am not a mechanic..........I do NOT want to come home after a hard day at work and then have to "work on my car". That is bullshit. Life is stressful enough without that bullshit. If I have to get in a car right NOW and drive to Juneau, Alaska and BACK, I want piece of mind. You should get that with a new Honda. Don't buy any extended warranty until "later", if you feel you need it. Do NOT buy any form of "life insurance" on the loan that they will try to sell you. Ask what their "document fees" are. They will rape you on that too. Have different loan amounts at different % calculated and with you in a briefcase when you shop, so that if you finally make it into the "finance manager's office" (this is the last place and chance they have to jack you in the backside), you can quickly look at the loan and see if rape is closeby (they have transposed numbers on us at the last second--to their advantage--example $9800.00 instead of $8900.00). Make a copy of your registration and leave it in the glove box and keep your original. I've had them TAKE and KEEP mine in order to get me to "come back" and get it to give them one last time to "sell me". Just some points to keep in mind. And always remember.........there ain't nothin' like the smell of a new car, especially one brimming with leather.

[Revere2]

p.s. you should be able to get a "new" 2008 with ~0 miles on it.............this late in 2008............it's still "new" if it hasn't been "used".
Dealers should be trying to get rid of ALL 2008's by now...........

[ohgood]

EX all the way. you get the nice features without the rarity of the SI. the SI produces more power sure, but if you -need- more than what the EX has, you'll want a turbo or something , really.

imho the best car we've ever owned is a simple accord ex WAGON, yes wagon. 222,000 miles of pure driving fun. still starts without a hiccup, still runs 120MPH as long as you ask it, still gets 25-30 mpg out of 87 octane.

any vehicle that required >87 is off my list of possibilities.

any vehicle that doesn't have a big T or H on the hood/trunk is off my list. (these are the best cars in the world!)

we drove a SI civic before buying the accord ex, and honestly it startled me how much power it had. i was afraid the wife might drift in a turn accidentally in the rain. amazing power, just not for us.

enjoy

[bettingpython]

New with leather and luxuries you say, your not gonna get 30mpg but yiou'll get 25mpg. Ford mustang GT. If you can live with cloth instead of leather a deluxe runs about 27k if you want leather you can probably get into a premium package for around 28k. ford also has 2k off on the  leftover 08's so feasibly you could get into a premium for around 26. The GT runs on pump gas 87 octane, and you can have it in an auto if you want it that way.

We wound up with her new car for 22,500 out the door we had the 2000 off plus owner loyalty cash for trading in her focus.

Screw the boy racer toy's

And 25mpg was with my driving on the way to San Antonio.

[bikejunkie223]

If you go to Kelly Blue Books website you can look up invoice price on new cars (what the dealer paid) and that gives you an idea what you should offer. The tricky thing is, at least at our dealership, civics are in extremely high demand thanks to fuel prices- the Si not so much. You have to be fair and figure the dealership to make $500-$1000 over invoice on the car, but that will be well under MSRP (sticker) for instance:http://www.kbb.com/kbb/NewCars/PricingReport/2008_Honda_Civic_Sedan_223805.aspx

Also, the reason at a dealership you don't pay a lot less than a new car for a low mileage one is because that is where dealers make most of their money- low trade to one guy and full book to you. There are some expenses like reconditioning the vehicle but used cars are where the money is. Also, you can get much better interest rates on new cars than used, so in a lot of cases it comes out in the wash- your payment would be the same. I would never buy a Mustang. I wouldn't buy any vehicle from a company on the verge of bankruptcy- how well built do you think that thing is, after they have done everything to make it as cheaply as possible? Sorry- I shouldn't hate.

[bettingpython]

I'm with Mak here, get a real car that's a few years older.

I get about 32 hwy in my XJ6 VDP and it is absolutely loaded with options, has 250rwhp and looks good doing it.  The V8 XJR's get about the mileage of an Si and have over 400hp...........and leather interiors.

I've played the used car game, not worth it.

Better interest rate, full warranty, yada yada yada. And I have never bought a used vehicle that didn't have the damned check engine light come on shortly after buying it. PLus new car salesmen are much nicer to work with in my opinion. I'm with revere other than normal maintenance I don't want to touch a wrench on my vehicles anytime while I own them. And yep nothing beats that new car smell and feel.

It's okay to hate Junkie, everyones entitled to their opinions. How many times have the big 4 been on the verge of bankruptcy?

[bikejunkie223]

It's okay to hate Junkie, everyones entitled to their opinions. How many times have the big 4 been on the verge of bankruptcy?

The big 4? who is the 4th? I guess they won't ever go bankrupt because the feds have to problem pumping billions into their companies to keep them afloat because they were stupid and continued to build rediculous SUVs and trucks when they should have learned the lessons form the 70's and realized smaller fuel efficient cars that aren't garbage are good to have around. If Pedro's Taco Stand is on the vergo of going under because Pete's hamburgers are cheaper and nobody is buying tacos you don't see the federal government giving him $100k to stay in buisness- but time and again they will bail out these idiots running Ford, Chevy, and Chrysler.

[Revere2]

Bike Junkie.............let Uncle Revere allow you in on a little secret..........those invoice prices you see on sites/credit unions/banks/in the "finance manager's" office are NOT the "true" price. They caught on to that long time ago. In fact.......employees, relatives, and fleet owners routinely get from 2 to 4 % LOWER than THAT!!! Don't feel guilty or sorry for the lying bastards. They want you to think their children have no shoes and their wives have to use oily rags found in the dumpster for tampons. See him standing there with his crisp Arrow shirt, 2 pounds of gold around each wrist and a half gallon of Polo cologne doused on his body? He will have you bent over a proverbial stump and his scrotum will be slapping against your buttocks in less than 3 shakes of a sheep's tail !!!! They all get kickbacks from the Company/Detroit/Japan or where ever. They ALL make PLENTY of money. I know of only ONE individual that really "got the best" of a salesman/dealership one time in my life. The salesman was fired after the daily or weekly tally and "they" tried to sue and intimidate him. Didn't work.
He really got a deal of a lifetime. And slept about 12 hrs. that night grieving over it. I hope "Good Guy" gets a good deal but.....
I think I'd rather buy a house than go shopping for an Automobile. It is exhausting. At least for "my style", it is. They do not like me here at the Honda Dealerships. We had to finally drive 80 miles to get a deal that "I" could live with. Wifee got a new Accord (with the full rich thick leather package) and daughter got a new Accord with cloth package. Good cars. Damn good cars. I could "make love" in that leathered out Accord...................alone.................sigh..................

[bikejunkie223]

Well, here is a couple thoughts.
1: all dealerships are not created equal, I work for a Honda dealer and know that the kbb invoice is what our invoice is. There are some things like dealer holdback, and flooring that I don't understand totally (I'm in service) and I know contribute to dealer profit but invoice is far less than MSRP and you won't find one for much below invoice. we sell most of our cars for a few hundred under invoice, but popular models go for more. I know a close freind set me up with his fleet manager when I bought my Dodge pickup and they sold it to me for 14k under sticker. I know few people buy for MSRP but a 42k truck for 26k after the factory rebate is a good deal for a fully loaded half ton 4x4.

2: If the dealer you are at is a duck, then walk. Shop around before by going through their internet department. Know the deal you expect before you have to talk to a lot shark.

3: Enjoy your Accord, they really are sweet and I'd totally own one. That said, our Element is the best car I have ever owned.

[bettingpython]

LOL big 4.......ooops

Thinking bike manufacturers in a car discussion.

I wish I could have waited to buy my truck until this year like was originally planned, Damn good deals on trucks now. I could have easily gotten more truck for the same money. Oh well c'est la vie.

[bettingpython]

FYI unions are what's killing the big 3, not their unwillingness to change. They keep making shaZam! thats not selling because if they don't the people who do make shaZam! that sells like the focus, will walk off when everyone strikes becasue ford can't support the employee base the union says they have to continue supporting.

One more reason to not vote for the big socialist ticket, unions ruining businesses for the past 90 years

Actually at one point in time they served a purpose before fair labor laws were enacted, now they're just a self perpetuating money maker that sponges off of businesses by holding them hostage.

I effen hate Unions.

[bikejunkie223]

They hold the public hostage as well. The friggin' police and firefighter unions here in Oregon absolutley fleece us constantly. I hate unions as well.