GM going down the toilet???

[yamahonkawazuki]

Ohgood,

If GM goes down let's rent a couple semis and go to the auction.  Delphi was a grab and run, at the GM auction they'll be begging for bids.  Where else could you buy a 4x8x2' NEW Rock of Ages A grade rock with stand for $50 bucks?  How about a Monarch 1000EE for a grand with EVERY accessory ever made for it, 50 hours on the spindle, AND the P.O.?  Yes, it's true!   

If GM goes down I'm going to the auction! 

FWIW: 

I doubt a Chinese buyout of any of the big 3.  China is starting to fall into recession itself.  Possibly worse than here.

i'm there !

i managed to scoop up a few Fowler and Federal indicators when the plant in Meridian, MS closed. they were running over A FReAKING TON of indicators with a forklift, then pushing them into a hopper for scrap ! ARRRRRGH !

call me a vulture or whatever, but when a company tosses $100,000 worth of tech for no reason other than to have to move it, i say dumb !

btw- there were also several hundred thousand dollars worth of rocks, CCM's, air gauges (yes, the kind with digital readouts!, DRM's, and other high-dollar items being trashed. just plain shameful.

lmao, ive got about 2 tons of titanium slugs. were used in some high po auto parts, every oen which hit the floor had to go bye bye. soi picked em up, every day got about 40 of em. cylindrical tubes 3" by 3/4"

[mach1]

its great that GM goes under they made no effort to compete with foreign auto makers, hell they don't even try to compete with us auto makers. if they go under what happen's to Chevy, saturn,etc......

[yamahonkawazuki]

its great that GM goes under they made no effort to compete with foreign auto makers, hell they don't even try to compete with us auto makers. if they go under what happen's to Chevy, saturn,etc......

IIRC they are all part of it

[simon79]

its great that GM goes under they made no effort to compete with foreign auto makers, hell they don't even try to compete with us auto makers. if they go under what happen's to Chevy, saturn,etc......

IIRC they are all part of it

yes, and (here in EU) Opel/Vauxhall, Saab and Chevrolet Europe too.

[mach1]

thats sux saturn just released a great looking car or maybe it was a prototype but it still looked fun bags. I would like to still drive a cobalt SS and maybe the new camaro, ohwell they produce crap they fall like crap in a toilet.

[The Buddha]

I blame the screwed up healthcare system.
The big ticket for these companies was ... they had to pay for healthcare while japaneese companies didn't ...
Now of course Toyota and honda moved here, and the US companies moved out and the jap's are beating GM at their own game in their backyard.
And yea let it die and shut down everythign but research, and give them research money and get them off the gas useage. Need to be some sustainable stuff ... solar or electric ... solar I really like, someone gets a better harness rate than the .0000000001% we get now with the thermoelectric stuff ... and we're in business.
Cool.
Buddha.

[ohgood]

I blame the screwed up healthcare system.
The big ticket for these companies was ... they had to pay for healthcare while japaneese companies didn't ...
Now of course Toyota and honda moved here, and the US companies moved out and the jap's are beating GM at their own game in their backyard.
And yea let it die and shut down everythign but research, and give them research money and get them off the gas useage. Need to be some sustainable stuff ... solar or electric ... solar I really like, someone gets a better harness rate than the .0000000001% we get now with the thermoelectric stuff ... and we're in business.
Cool.
Buddha.

the jap's are beating GM at their own game in their backyard...

while employing Americans, with good wages, good health care (finally) and good (for a car company) environmental practices.

the best GM has done is make 'flex fuel' 6,000 lb suv's which is a freaking JOKE.

ya, sure, GM, go 'hybrid' a suburban and get a whopping 16 MPG instead of 12. fffffffwhatever.

[DoD#i]

thats sux saturn just released a great looking car or maybe it was a prototype but it still looked fun bags. I would like to still drive a cobalt SS and maybe the new camaro, ohwell they produce oh my goodness they fall like oh my goodness in a toilet.

No matter how good a Saturn might look, I wouldn't touch one with a 12 foot pole after having owned one.

Crap brakes. Expensive crap brakes. New rotors needed every year or two, new calipers every 4, priced like Volvo or Mercedes parts. Brake lines to rear badly designed, rusted out twice.

Plastic body panels not rusting - nice. Providing plenty of other places that do rust out - not so nice.

Various other mechanical ills, all saturn-specific parts overpriced, happy to see it go.

[yamahonkawazuki]

thats sux saturn just released a great looking car or maybe it was a prototype but it still looked fun bags. I would like to still drive a cobalt SS and maybe the new camaro, ohwell they produce oh my goodness they fall like oh my goodness in a toilet.

No matter how good a Saturn might look, I wouldn't touch one with a 12 foot pole after having owned one.

Crap brakes. Expensive crap brakes. New rotors needed every year or two, new calipers every 4, priced like Volvo or Mercedes parts. Brake lines to rear badly designed, rusted out twice.

Plastic body panels not rusting - nice. Providing plenty of other places that do rust out - not so nice.

Various other mechanical ills, all saturn-specific parts overpriced, happy to see it go.

weird, i got over half a million miles on mine. when it finally died. engine was original, 2nd transmission. nothing ever broke, ( cept the sunroof) meh, go figure lol

[gearman]

I read somewhere that it costs GM over $1600 per vehicle for health care for present and retired employees. Toyota spends $215. I would assume Ford and Chryslers expenses are also considerably higher than the foreign owned brands. Some may say that the unions did their job a little too well. All I know is there will be several hundred thousand to possibly millions of people out of work if any one of the big three fail. Those well paid workers will no longer be spending money and paying taxes. Sounds like the beginning of the end.

[roguegeek]

If one of the big(?) three fall, a lot of companies will. There are suppliers out there that can only operate with these guys in business. The reports coming across my desk right now have an estimated 1.4 million workers unemployed if GM goes away. Only 300k in that number work directly for GM. The rest are second and third-party companies.

[yamahonkawazuki]

I read somewhere that it costs GM over $1600 per vehicle for health care for present and retired employees. Toyota spends $215. I would assume Ford and Chryslers expenses are also considerably higher than the foreign owned brands. Some may say that the unions did their job a little too well. All I know is there will be several hundred thousand to possibly millions of people out of work if any one of the big three fail. Those well paid workers will no longer be spending money and paying taxes. Sounds like the beginning of the end.

well the unions expect the companies to pay for all of it. if i heard correctly., , now theyll have to pay in some if they want it to continue

[frankieG]

If they go down, ill  blame it on Obama, hell why not. the man in charge gets teh blame whether deserved or not

i think most people are smart enough to realize that bush not only ruined the oil companies he ran but our country too.

[jserio]

GM is failing (as are other US based auto makers) because of poor decisions. they thought $1.50 gallon gas would last forever. they built so much of their profit into the huge trucks and suvs. other companies such as honda and toyota, did not. they continued to build small, cheap, dependable, fuel effecient cars.  so now, GM and the rest of detroit automakers are crying and honda/toyota are breaking open the champagne. if the government lets them fail, (and i do say if, because you know our government, print it and spend it) then yes, for a time, things will get hard in the auto industry. unemployment rate will skyrocket. but, who knows, another company could end up just buying them out and completley revamping the entire product line.  i don't feel sorry for the CEO'S who will loose their multimillion dollar business. i do feel for the guy working doubles on the assembly line to make ends meet that will loose his job.

[chipster]

  Let them go down, I'm with ohgood and bobthebiker.
  But I'm also not a fan of the big unions, I feel they have to take some responsibility for this too. Dont get me wrong, I'm not a hater, they served a purpose and promoted some much needed changes back in the day...but the day is over. If you want to compete and save American jobs then dont go out on stike because the company wants you to pay a fair share of your healthcare benifits. AK Steel was on strike here in Ohio for about a year and all you heard was "we dont want to pay $20 a paycheck for healthcare". BOO Fing Who..the rest of us are paying $80-120 per pay period, suck it up and get back to work!!  That attitude drives me nuts    My inlaws are all General Electric union guys and at Poker night thats all they talk about how much they made($) and how little they worked. They worked harder at avoiding work than the actual work would have been. Now I know why my GE profile appliances cost so much, and dont last as long.
 I buy American when ever I can when it makes sense...I ride a Susuki and Yamaha...but I drive a Dodge

[jserio]

i agree that the unions are screwing shaZam! up. there was a time and place for them. but you know, my dad told me the other day, when dealing with the unions, some specific ones, you need more finese and tact, they can't be bullied. lets say the truckers union for example? (not sure if it's called truckers union but i'm sure you get the point). if we tried to bully them out and they strike, not shaZam! goes anywhere. so while i agree the unions need to go down, we have to do this in a tactful way to keep american jobs. my dad lives in kansas and he says at least every other year it seems like the machinst union or electricians union that works for boeing goes on strike. and the biggest reason, suprise, suprise...they don't want to pay more in healthcare. i might not make $40 bucks an hour as a machinist, but i also pay a shaZam! more in medical than people in union shops do. what makes a union man so much better of a worker than me that he deserves to make double what i do and yet pay less in healthcare etc? oh, please let someone on here be a union member so you can explain this to me. 

[gearman]

My inlaws are all General Electric union guys and at Poker night thats all they talk about how much they made($) and how little they worked.

I worked at a "Generous" Electric mechanical service shop for many years. We were non-union but had pretty much the same benefits and pay scale as the union shops. Yeah...it was a good gig while it lasted. When they sold the business, they must have had an "agreement" with the new owners because nobody could seem to get hired at any GE facility. I was 6 months away from being vested. That wouldn't have happened if we were union.

[frankieG]

because they were smart enough, organized enough, and strong enough to organize into a union.  it sounds like sour grapes when non union workers go at unionized workers.  companies that make billions in profits will not willingly share that money with the workers.  it is the union that corrects that.  otherwise we would be back into the servitude days of employment.  like they have in 3rd world countries like India, Pakistan and china.  unions also help to make sure that there is quality control and professional development for the workers they represent.  which helps us all.   this hole medical thing is the result of, of course, the large HMO's who are raking in billions and this depression/recession is certainly not going to effect them.  we need universal health care like Canada and the other  G-8 nations have.  a prescription that cost me 20 bucks in Canada costs 160 in the US.   in the other g-8's you will not be refused care, you will not go bankrupt from health care, you will not have to suffer in pain because you don't have the money or insurance.  you could/should be able to go to the state and get your health card...done you are covered.  if u want dental and pharm care?  no problem that is about 50 bucks a month more.  no deductible for the medical, 100 deductible for dental and 75 for prescriptions.    there is plenty enough money to do this.  just up the taxes on the rich president Obama says 250k but lets jump it up to 1 million.  that would pay for it alone.  medical care should not cost you your home, your savings or your life.

[PuddleJumper]

Welcome to the U.A.S.S

[chipster]

frankiG wrote
because they were smart enough, organized enough, and strong enough to organize into a union.  it sounds like sour grapes when non union workers go at unionized workers.  companies that make billions in profits will not willingly share that money with the workers.  it is the union that corrects that.  otherwise we would be back into the servitude days of employment.  like they have in 3rd world countries like India, Pakistan and china.  unions also help to make sure that there is quality control and professional development for the workers they represent.  which helps us all.

   No sour grapes, and I'm not mad at ya.  I'm not against all unions, or even everything they stand for.  My parents and sister are all in the Teachers union. I just want some common sense applied in some areas.
  I have/had family at Ford in the 70's & 80's...that wasnt smart organizational skill..it was intimidation and threats of life in Northern Ohio. Your point about sharing $$ with employees was a fair point 20 years ago, I dont think it carries much weight in this more globalized world.
  "unions help make sure there is quality control and professional developement for their workers"  yeah...how that working for the Big Three?!?!  You mean quality of life of union members and protecting non productive workers...to the detrement of consumers.  If these places were making quality products for a competative (not cheaper) price, that would be one thing.  When I see them protect a drunk employee for the 2nd or 3rd time and wont allow him to be fired...and that guy is buildint the tranny in my new truck...I got a problem with that!
   If you can make $45 per hour doing what I get $22 for , more power to you. I just dont want to hear you complain about paying $20 per month for health care. Also dont expect me to pay more money for a lesser or equal product because it was Union Made. Times are tough, my money goes where I get the best bang for my buck.