Is biodegradeable BS or what.

[The Buddha]

OK there is some crap that is "biodegradeable". OK we toss it in the garbage. It gets carted off to a land fill. Now of course it will disintegrate via bacterial interaction.
OK now think about it, bacteria is in the soil, and they are in the soil in about the same concentration at your house as they are in the land fill. There is a few million tonnes of biodegradeable crap dumped on them every month. Is that somehting they can handle ? And that is assuming your neighbor's trash dont have motor oil that kills the bacteria ... no question ... I dunp several tonnes of toxic crap in my trash every month ... so adios bacteria in the charlotte area land fills, you're toast.

It will eventually get eaten, maybe in a 100 years. Is that actually sensible and an acceptable time frame. Biodegradeable makes no sense unless you bury it in your backyard. Where next year, it may get degraded.

Cool.
Buddha.

[wladziu]

It's slower, but it happens.  The proof is in the methane gas that comes out of the landfills, which some places are now using to turn generators instead of just letting it into the atmosphere (that's actually a really big problem). 
All the oil and things aren't killing all the bacteria.  There's a lot more there than most people think.  There are more bacteria on your skin than there are people in the world, for example. 
It's more of a question of the bacteria actually being able to break down plastic.  I'm haven't been into microbiology or anything yet, so take it with a grain of salt.  But, in my opinion, the thing slowing down the landfill process (the ol' dig and dump) is the lack of UV light.  UV light gives necessary energy of activation needed in types of elimination reactions in organic compounds like plastic.  Plastic IS an organic compound, it's just a very stable one, due to its nonpolarity and double-bond locations.  The allylic/vinylic bonds used in plastic are nearly the strongest in organic chemistry: it (basically) pulls itself together so strongly that not very much can get in to break it apart.  UV light and heat are the only things that can really bypass that, besides solvents which aren't readily available in landfills. 
The heat generated by the bacteria does help, but only slowly.  It's basically like warming your hands with a little candle in a blizzard: there is so alot plastic around to soak up the available (low) heat.  Kind of like taking a luke-warm shower. 

Now I'm sure that RoadsterGal will probably chime in here, and tell me that I'm explaining it too simply.  But, I can't really explain it better without drawing it. 




The biggest problems for us, though, are two things:
1) toxicity - heavy minerals and things that leach into ground water.  The 3-5 mm liners that they use are breaking left and right.  It costs a lot to have them relined (with all the digging involved), and the parent companies fight really hard against it.  Some communities have been winning, but it takes a lot of proof.  People have to get sick from it, and there can be no other manufacturing facility around that contributes somehow.

2) space - plastic takes up a lot of space, leading to more and more Kilimanjaros of Junk
I am personally very disappointed in the lack of chitin for use as packaging material.  A few years ago, it was all the rage, but we never saw anything out of it.  The military was the only one that really seemed to take it seriously (with MRE packaging, since it gets thrown on the ground so often), but THEY even fell through with it. 

You'd also be surprised at the amount of glycerin waste produced from biofuel from saturated/unsaturated fats.
But, they figured out a trick to solve it in Japan just this spring/summer. 
I've got a research fellowship this coming spring to do develop a method to actually use it.   

(Can't give away any secrets, we're hoping to patent it.  Yay!)

[wladziu]

I liked chitin, though. 

It's a polysaccharide, a carbohydrate, that holds up well against weak protic solvents like water.  But, you add heat, and it denatures just like a protein.  Breaks the hydrogen bonds between it by pulling oxygen out of the air, breaking it down into just glucose and traces elements (providing a food source). 
Doesn't necessarily even require heat.  An oxygen source will do the same thing:  pull the hydrogen out of the chitin, making water, glucose, and traces. 

I'm not sure what types of biodegradable materials you're mentioning, though, but please indulge me!!  I need the practice!

[The Buddha]

Glycerin - yes tonns of it are being made when they turn veg oil into diesel ... impure ... as in you cant drink it ...
Chiting - not a clue, I was looking at some crap in the kitchen @work. Who knows what it is.
Cool.
Buddha.

[wladziu]

Chitin is what exoskeletons are made of: crabs, lobsters, bugs.

You can eat glycerin, though.  It wont' hurt you.  Just has no nutritional value whatsoever.  It's like butter, without the taste (or anything else). 

[The Buddha]

Oh I meant this glycerin had impurities, like sulphur, particulates etc. I thought glycerin was sweet. Does it have calories ?
Cool.
Buddha.

[wladziu]

I've heard that it's sweet.   

I haven't messed with it yet.  Still in the works. 
Right now I only know the chemistry portion. 

My chem professor invited me to help him analyze the pathogenic properties of different biological weapons.
Somehow it got downgraded to biofuel.      
(He couldn't get funding, since he sucks at writing grant proposals.  And, the university has a problem letting a crazy Iranian culture Anthrax and Ricin in the new building.)

[wladziu]

Yeah, wiki is saying that it's got about 27 Kcal per teaspoon, about as sweet as table sugar. 
Learn something new everyday....


We're more interested in the OH groups on it.  OH = alcohol.  Not to give it away or anything....

[The Buddha]

Yea glycerin will break into butanol I think and some ketones or COOH's or somehting right.

Its all part of the eyewash that is being squirted at us from a fire hose comming in from washington.

How they will make the same crap and call it green and new ...

I dont want new green nothing ... I want cheap parts to keep the old cars I have running forever. 90% of a car's energy use is before it even hits the road. OK more like 40% but ...

You want to make a green somehting. make things that are useable in 10 different forms, and things that work 10 different ways.

My cars should all have the same tires, and heck so should all the bikes. Not just tires, wheels too. That way, you dont clutter up the freaking landfills with wheels and tires. Crude example. I would like things that work in many different capacities. Industrial and household waste is the biggest resource we have. Wine bags need to double as emergency gas cans, inflatable seat cushions, water bottles, oil recycling containers ... endless list. Re use ... recycle is worthless, it costs more energy to melt the freaking thing than it is to make new.

The greenest car IMHO will be one that will take any engine+electric motor, any set of batteries any set of anything and run. They develop a new battery technology, you swap when yours go weak. Motor rebuild ... you swap it for a better one with newer tech. Easy, at home swap. The gasoline is low in supply, it should run on used fries oil, kerosense, diesel, ethanol, butanol, and propane.

Better yet, make a retrofit kit to fit into any damn car ever made. OK some of it will be impractical, like the 78 ford country squire I drive past every day. That is gonna have to be melted down ... but lots of little cars that die every day cos the alternator that blew costs more than the value of the car. Screw that, alternators need to be cheap, fixing it also should be, but worst case, toss the whole motor and everything in it and fit the battery set, motor assist thing I mentioned and a flex fuel engine. That way you save yourself the pain of melting down a little car, to make another little car.

I also am bugged by the fact that they make water pumps and other things that you cant take apart and reseal. Its working well, but its gotta be replaced cos it leaks. No you peckerheads, you open it and put an O ring in it.

Cool.
Buddha.

[wladziu]

I've waited years to hear somebody else say that.
And, yeah, you're exactly right.  But, don't let anybody hear you say it.  I'm sure you know exactly why. 

But, aren't you worried about impressing women with your shiny new cellphone (or whatever little trinket they're dropping skirt for nowadays), Buddha? 


I can't even talk about the subject anymore.  I'm too bummed out about it.  Last time I had this little chat, the dean threatened to bring action on me for nearly getting Shell to drop funding.  Nobody really cares about it.  They just want the money.  That's all it's about.  Money = getting laid. 

There are retrofit kits available, but you can do it yourself just as easy if you have a diesel.  Rudolf Diesel intended his engine to be ran on peanut oil, anyway.  I helped work on a kit, over at Piedmont Biofuels, for it.  Diesels are really the way to go nowadays.  But, if you knew the crap they're selling....  When I was working for Cummins, jeez, the crap they sell....