Broken GS engine: here we start with the works

[GenTLe]

then you remove the magnet which you did

I didn't.
I don't have the extractor. I removed the magnet only hitting it with a rubber hammer from behind = when the crankshaft was out from the engine.

Guy, my work is to solve problem: I'm a system administrator for the central European data center of Coca-cola, and I'm good in analysis and troubleshooting, since I'm responsible for about 300 central server machines where 15000 users works 24h. This to assure you that the way I acted was the only possible way, in this case.

[The Buddha]

We made our own magnet removal tool. Search for sliding hammer. Starwalt made one, and I made one and both of them are in circulation. I then made another for personal use.
Its easy, anyway, fellow unix application support brother ... I used to work for big banks, wachovia, JP morgan and B of A doing trading application support. Sys admin is more like replacing disks and trouble shooting network types right ? Yea I got some close co workers who do that. I do application side support on unix.
Anyway, you need sliding hammer type tool.
Cool.
Buddha.

[GeeP]

GenTLe, you're doing fine.  In fact, you're doing precisely what I'd do in the same situaton.  The Plastigauge looks good!

Keep up the good work!

P.S.  Your diagnosis is probably correct.  I think it likely that the starter clutch bolts lost torque, resulting in fatigue failure.  Finding the differential wear patterns on the three bolts was good detective work.  Most mechanics would have missed that detail.  

Was there any sign of thread locker on the clutch bolts remains upon removal?  If not, it might be worth installing them with Loc-tite upon reinstallation regardless of whether it is specified in the manual or not.

[GenTLe]

We made our own magnet removal tool.

When I'll buy a lathe    And I'm thinking to buy one from some time. Have to find the place to fit it, but I'm very greedy about it 
About the job: well, no, changing the disks is something very easy (ok, on UX if you've software mirror or raid5 with LVM isn't so immediate) but it's not my job. Usually I start to work as 3rd level support in case of cluster failures (happens, especially on Ms systems), when I've to setup and configure Cisco network devices, SAN setup, zoning, Domino administration, backup infrastructure design and creation and so on. Infrastructure and OS/network administration, in a way that the environment is fine for the application layer or, in case of problems, these problems will be solved as soon as possible to give again a strong environment to the users and to people like you that work on application layers 

Was there any sign of thread locker on the clutch bolts remains upon removal?  If not, it might be worth installing them with Loc-tite upon reinstallation regardless of whether it is specified in the manual or not.

Thanks GeeP! 
No sign of loctite on the bolts, and yes, I've here my loctite and for sure I'll use it 
Now I've to wait not less then 15 days, since I need a gasket set, plus a couple of other things, and the official Suzuki shop here is closed for stocktaking until 6 January + 7/15 days to have the parts 

See you

[The Buddha]

A lathe for the magnet. That'll be the day. I used a front axle bolt, a 10 lb dead weight slug with a large 5/8 or so inch hole in it, and welded handles to it. Then use a large washer on the axle. Then slide away. I believe starwalt started with a commercial sliding hammer and threaded that shaft to fit the GS. Its basically simple, throw a few things together and weld up.
Cool.
Buddha.

[Trwhouse]

Hi all,
I agree with Buddha on this one.
I have worked as a professional motorcycle mechanic in the past and as a car mechanic.
The first step of any major possible repair is NOT pulling the engine.
It is taking the side covers off, maybe the top end if needed, to find the problem.
I would have pulled both side engine covers with the engine still in the bike and taken a look at what was there.
Pulling the engine comes last, with total disassembly, AFTER you know what's wrong or have ruled out everything else.
It's fine that you did all this, and I'm glad you are happy to have been in there and cleaned it all up.
But you just didn't absolutely have to go this far to diagnose and fix it.
Others here on the board have done this, too.
It is just another good example of:
Check on the board first and search for similar problems.
Ask for opinions and help. It's likely someone else here has experienced what you are experiencing with your bike.
Be patient and logical and take the simple actions first.
It sounds like you are having fun with the project, so it certainly is NOT in vain.
I'm just reminding everyone not to pull the engine at the first noise.
Best wishes and Happy New Year, my friends.
Yours,
Trwhouse

[The Buddha]

The worst thing is, if the noise was from the starter rotor, and you fix it, and ride it and it dies cos the bearings were just a few miles from going anyway. I ahve a savage that I am worried that may be the case. Hope not. But its still a possiblity.
Cool.
Buddha.

[badguy]

Wow, what a bunch of douchebags    GenTLe never said that this was the only way to diagnose the problem, just that it was his way of going about it.  If he wanted to thoroughly check the engine before having his girlfriend ride the bike, then there's absolutely nothing wrong with what he did.  If nothing else, he's adding a great amount of information to this site with this thread (certainly more than I have). 

The way I see it, he was working toward possibly confirming a suggestion from some professional mechanics, not from scratch.  If I had a couple mechanics give me their opinions on what the problem was, I probably wouldn't start a diagnosis from scratch either...especially since I have no prior experience with this type of work.  I think I'm so defensive of GenTLe because he did exactly what I would do, whether or not it was the most efficient way possible.  Actually this is similar to the way I fixed the transmission on my track bike:  I consulted every source I could think of with a description of the symptoms and nobody had any clue - once I pulled the bottom end apart, I realized I could've fixed the problem by removing the clutch and tightening a bolt.  Call me stupid, but I learned a lot during the process and replaced a few worn gears while I was in there. 

GenTLe, I appreciate the work you've put into documenting your teardown of the engine.  I'm sure it will help plenty of people looking to this site for information.  And in the spirit of Buddha and Trwhouse, maybe it'll help someone find their problem without pulling the engine out unnecessarily.  Either way, I'm glad you took the time to share the experience 

[The Buddha]

GS motors are available on the street for 200-300 bucks. No sane person will rebuild one right to the transmission. In fact I had a seca 2 with a bad starter clutch. I knew that it was the issue, no question about it. The starter clutch was ~125 and 4-5 hours work. I bought a motor for 150 and spent 4-5 hours with a swap. I then rode it for 6K miles and sold it. That guy that bought it over 9 months ago, never came back to get the motor that was included with the sale. That's how useful the busted motors are.

In some ways knowing how to do some stuff, really gets in the way of you doing it the efficient way.

This thread actually is a great example of how not to do stuff, incredibly detailed and very very interesting way to send people running the other way.

Like the graphic pictures of a chronic smokers lungs. To prove the point, I do have a motor with a bad rod bearing. I know its a bad rod bearing, I am looking at it everyday. I still wont do this, I took stuff off it but that is it. I may harvest more crap from it, but the rest of it is going to end up in the garbage. That is practical. I dont need to prove that I can rebuild it. I know I can buy a motor for 2-300, its better to do that.

Cool.
Buddha.

[GeeP]

Sr*n*th, let it go.

[GenTLe]

Budda, che 2 gran coglioni dio can!

You prefer trow stuff away. I prefer to fix.
Like I did last year for my TL1000S (5 weekends spent to find the electrical issue measuring all the sensors values).
Don't like my job? OK, go on trow stuff away. I'm different.
I've time. I DO like to do these jobs. I have many evening to spend. I've something to learn.

This is my last reply to you. We think _very_ differently, and I'm bored to loose time in this way.
I've an engine to bring to original splendor.

[The Buddha]

My point exactly - GenTLe - you spent 5 weekends trouble shooting your TL. You didn't split its cases and search for somehting busted.

On the GS, You never even bothered to look inside the cover and take it apart the right way. You do need to get the starter clutch and magnet off before you split the cases - that is the right way. Outside to in. Had you done to the GS what you did to the TL, You'd have a running GS by now with a $100 rotor which was all that was needed.

I throw away the motor. not my time and $. Your call what you prefer to spend how. But dont claim this was the right thing to do ... cos it was not. Not even close.

The right thing to do is to open the left cover, and everything inside it, open the right side, everything inside it, and then proceed from there.

Entertaining like a train wreck - I'll give you that. Wholly futile.

And che 2 gran coglioni dio can! to you too.

Cool.
Buddha.

[The Buddha]

Sr*n*th, let it go.

I am trying to prevent my name being searched. That's why I became the buddha.
I need to let it go, why cos this horse is dead and I dont need to beat it into mush ... K I'll give you that. After all I am the one on another board who famously said "I see dead horses ... and I see people beating them and beating them and beating them".
Nothing more annoying than when you do somehting stupid someone is there pointing it out. Its now all their fault.
Cool.
Buddha.

[playmemuzk]

I've watched with rapt attention this caterpillar-motor as it blossems into a butterfly....please send more pics!   I like what you have done, and agree that you will never know an engine better than from the ground up.   However, in buddha's defense (not sure why), I believe he has the newer members of the bike modification and repair collective in mind.  I think he is instructing the new on the simplest way to acclomplish things, and he is right.  I hope in the future he will be less abrasive, as his manner of relaying this information may drive people away!  But, I beleive he has good intentions.  This board is a fountain of information and everyone has things to add!   Damn, I sound like a flower child......    

[The Buddha]

Abrasive ... abrasive, I am never abrasive ... except on months that have days that end in "ay". Then all bets are off.
Cool.
Buddha.

[socialDK]

ok this is probably a noob question but what is a deep external cleaning and how do you do it? ive got another bike im fixing and will need to clean the engine.

[The Buddha]

Pressure washer maybe ?
Cool.
Buddha.

[ke7syv]

ok this is probably a noob question but what is a deep external cleaning and how do you do it? ive got another bike im fixing and will need to clean the engine.

Cover up everything that might get damaged like plastics, rubber, airfilters. Then get a can of foaming engine degreaser from your local auto shop assuming its grease your removing. Follow the directions on the can. If your not familiar it's something like this... Spray the motor. Let it sit for a couple minutes. You may need to scrub a little or a lot depending on how much gunk is built up, not to mention the nice asphalt that so conveniently comes off the road easier than it comes off my engine. Finally, hose off. Double check your wrap jobs before the hosing off. You don't need any water getting into electrical connections or your air filter. Maybe give the bike some time to dry off if you think some got wet. Hopefully someone will add another method 

[GenTLe]

ok this is probably a noob question but what is a deep external cleaning and how do you do it? ive got another bike im fixing and will need to clean the engine.

Hi SocialDK!
Deep clean is necessary for at least a couple of reasons:
1- dust inside and engine is "the" evil 
2- I hate to work on dirty parts, getting dirty hands, tools, workplace and so on

In this case the motorcycle remained uncovered from last July (5 months) under Milan sky (I write from Italy), and it has not been cleaned before.
So I cleaned the bike normally with car shampoo, then I cleaned the greasy parts with a strong soap (a degreaser commonly used for housecleanings too), on this degreaser I used a pressure washer. TAKE CARE if your bike is liquid cooled to keep the flow far from the radiator cooler because it could really damage it.
Keep it away from electrical parts too: mine reach 140atm of pressure, so it can really make the water to penetrate everything...
After the engine was on the table, I used a brush, kerosene, some rags and compressed air.
Better NOT to use normal gasoline because it's too flammable and it can damage rubber parts (it makes them to become dry and an-elastic, same reason that suggest not to use it on drive chain with OR gaskets).
On the bike, after cleaning and degreasing, on those parts that could create rust I sprayed some WD40 (any other spray-able lubricant is good)


PS: thanks guys, and thanks to you too Buddha. As I said I wanted to do this kind of job on an engine (basically I do the same on every stuff I buy as used). And I agree that it is better to search a failure in a more logical way. This time I couldn't do a diagnose and so, starting from the Suzuki professional mechanics -that should know this bike better than me- diagnose, I searched for melted bearings

PS2: The crankcase is closed (it needs only some gasket-paste), but for the rest I need to wait 2/3 weeks for the gasket kit, so I'll update the thread (and do some other photos) at that point  Now I'm searching for three hex socket bolts 8x16 but this time instead of OEM ones I'll use 12.9 ones (in Europe this code means the strongest bolts on the market) 

[ohgood]