Used GS: Chain replacement?

[Majorhavoc]

A sharp-eyed Ohgood pointed out in my introductory post (http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=45828.0Z) that the chain on my 1990 GS500 looks rusty and a little kinked.

I looked more closely and it's definitely rusted, although the links aren't frozen, just very stiff.  While I think with cleaning and lubing it would become nice and flexible again, I'm worried this is a tired chain in need of replacement. 

Thanks to this forum, I've dutifully downloaded and consulted the Clymer and Suzuki shop manuals for the GS500 (Saved me $40 - $60 combined right there, thanks everyone).  I now know that if there's more than 319.44 mm (12.57 in) between 21 pins (20 links) then the chain must be replaced.  What do people use to make this measurement?  The Suzuki manual is illustrated with a drawing showing it being checked with a caliper, but who the heck has a caliper that opens more than a foot wide? 

Based on one of gsJack's old posts, it looks like the DID 520V 110 link O-ring chain is the replacement of choice (about $70) http://www.chaparral-racing.com/Chaparral/productr.asp?pf%5Fid=312%2D1910&gift=False&HSLB=False&mscssid=04B851FA54AA0467D9B8DC6ACF91CCAF. 

Any more affordable alternatives?  Also, is this chain the kind with a universal link, or do I need a chain rivet tool (chain breaker)?

I'm also wondering if the front sprocket will need replacing as well.  How do you tell if a sprocket is too worn? 

Finally, if I do need to replace the front sprocket, I'm considering going up one tooth (to a 17T) to improve the bike's fuel economy and lower highway RPMs.  I understand this will be at the expense of some off-the-line performance.  Trust me, that just isn't going to be an issue for me personally.  Has any one done this particular mod?  Does it mean I'd need to go up to a 111 link chain or can I still get by with the 110?

Thanks in advance for your help!

[starshooter10]

have you ever seen what happens when a chain snaps?

it's NOT pretty its the kind of force that'll rip though steel

spend the 150USD (or less) and get it replaced...

for 150 (or less) you should be able to get a chain kit with good componets such as RK Xring chain

always replace BOTH sprockets when you change the chain

keep it clean and lubed and you should be good for another 15k+ miles

my current combo cost me 120$ for an RK Xring chain, the stock 39T R, and a 15T F and i LOVE EM!

i have about 10k on them now and all looks well!

get the steel sprokets if they ask... the ali wear very fast.


and if you do it yourself... ask them to order you a 520# clip type masterlink or get a rivet tool (or you can be cheap like me and use the wood block/center punch with a hammer O_O  )

that method is frowned on though!

[Hawk996]

Starshooter10 is correct.  Always change your chain and sprockets at the same time.  You will kill a brand new chain running it on worn gears and vice versa....

About you're gearing question.  Yes, if you go up one tooth in the front you will gear up pretty dramatically.  You may want to consider going down a tooth in the rear, this will all so gear you up and it wont be as dramatic as changing the front.  Going up one tooth in the front is like going down three in the rear...

As far sprockets are concerned, changing sizes will not greatly affect your chains length, you still should have plenty of adjustment left in both directions.  To cut my chain I use bolt cutters and a bench grinder.  I borrow the bolt cutters from work and then bring the chain in and grind off the links on my break...

[gsJack]

At least one other member here has a 17T front economy sprocket and seems happy with it. Try a search, I forget who it was.  I ran a 15T front on my 97 GS and always have run a stock 16T on my 02 which doesn't need the change in my opinion.

I've put over 370,000 miles on six bikes with the last 140k miles on the 2 GSs and never have changed a rear sprocket.  I change the front sprocket every 2nd or 3rd chain.  Works for me.

I bought that same DID o-ring chain from Chaparral since year 2000 and it was the same $55 dollars approx every time.  That price on your link is the first increase.  It always came with a clip type master link in the box and I've always used that type.

[ohgood]

At least one other member here has a 17T front economy sprocket and seems happy with it. Try a search, I forget who it was.  I ran a 15T front on my 97 GS and always have run a stock 16T on my 02 which doesn't need the change in my opinion.

I've put over 370,000 miles on six bikes with the last 140k miles on the 2 GSs and never have changed a rear sprocket.  I change the front sprocket every 2nd or 3rd chain.  Works for me.

I bought that same DID o-ring chain from Chaparral since year 2000 and it was the same $55 dollars approx every time.  That price on your link is the first increase.  It always came with a clip type master link in the box and I've always used that type.

+1

The o-ring DID is much better than a cheaper / noisier non o-ring chain like what I'm using now. I might be lucky to get 4,000 miles out of it.

The original o-ring chain that came with my 97 model lasted 24,000 miles. I changed to a 15 tooth front sprocket, and enjoyed the little bit of pick up off the line.

Clip style masters are fine.

I'll be going with that same chain as soon as mine wears beyond adjustment

[Majorhavoc]

Wow, you guys are great!   Sorry, but when I post a question on the Mazda user's forum, it can be days or weeks (or never!) before I get a reply.  I'm amazed by how responsive everyone is here.

OK, so I'm hearing that the DID 520V O-ring chain is the economy alternative.  Sorry I suggested there might be a cheaper route. 

Non o-ring chain = bad (cheap in the worst sense, noisy and wears out quickly).

Can I get a point of clarification?  I hear what Starshooter10 and Hawk996 are saying about changing both sprockets and chain at the same time.  That actually makes sense to me: if motorized bikes are like the pedal kind, then worn sprockets just accelerate the wear on a new chain and visa versa. 

But I do search before posting, really I do.  I thought I had read somewhere what I'm hearing from gsJack right now: that the rear sprocket needs replacing less frequently than the front.  Something about the rear sprocket wearing more slowly (more teeth to spread out the wear maybe?).  Or maybe that's all a bunch of horse hockey.

I confess I have absolutely no idea how long either sprocket has been on this bike, but that's why I was asking what exactly to look for to determine if the sprocket is ready to be retired.  Or maybe it's less what's visible and more how much time/mileage is on the hardware?  In which case I guess I'd be much safer in just replacing both sprockets anyway.

I definitely don't want to precipate open sprocket-changing-frequency warfare here at the tranquil world of GStwin.com.  I'm just trying to prioritize my worklist (and parts purchase list).  Both of which are getting quite long.  Topic for my next post: Carb rebuild: yes or no?  Details to follow.

[starshooter10]

you must replace both front AND rear with the chain...

the rears might LOOK like they are wearing more but the front DOES spin more time then the rear.... should be more wear despite what it looks like... (though the front is under more load per T)

generally a chain kit is cheaper then a chain +1 sproket

but again

ALWAYS CHANGE BOTH WHEN YOU CHANGE THE CHAIN


and dont compare a motorcycle drive to a bicycle... bikes dont have 40+ HP like the GS does... nor will a bike ever see 50+MPH or go 10k+ mi on a single chain


and the deal with differant teeth:

the front sproket is smaller then the rear so it has to go around 2 times (or so) for ever time the rear goes around once...

less teeth up front= more speed off the line - the cost is fuel MPG goes down and you loose top speed
MORE teeth up front= less speed off the line BUT- better MPG and.... still probally have less top speed (as wind > GS HP)

those are the opposite for the rear.

more teeth in the rear = more speed off the line. less MPG ect.

stock is 17/39 (front/rear)

many people run something like i do 15/39 and many opt for the inbetween  16/39

my bike is ALOT faster around town but the MPG are NOT what i'd like. im going to a 16/39 next time around for more pep and better (then current) MPG

[gsJack]

Stock sprockets are 16/39T. 

[starshooter10]

what he said 

[qwertydude]

I don't think think you'll ever really wear out the rear sprocket if you maintain your chains. But I'm running the cheap KMC chains I bought off ebay for like $40. It's actually lasting longer than my original, though I think the previous owner of the bike didn't maintian the chain properly as it only lasted 18,000 miles. My KMC looks like it'll last 30,000+  from the wear that I see. I also run an 18 tooth front. If you ride freeways a lot +2 on the front helps a lot. I get 70-75 mpg all the while traveling like a rocket ship in the fast lane on socal freeways. When I slowed things down to 55 mph on a trip to San Diego and back I managed an unbelievable 85 mpg.

[the mole]

I run a 17 tooth front and really like it. I fitted it not long after I bought the bike, when it had about 5000km on it.
If your chain is rusty and stiff from poor maintenance, but has not yet stretched too much, and the sprocket teeth are not hooked I would suggest that it would be OK to just replace the chain if your budget is tight.
As others have said, it is preferable to replace everything at once, but if you look after it and get 10,000 + miles out of the replacement chain it is probably cost effective.

[ohgood]

1) you must replace both front AND rear with the chain...
the rears might LOOK like they are wearing more but the front DOES spin more time then the rear.... should be more wear despite what it looks like... (though the front is under more load per T)

generally a chain kit is cheaper then a chain +1 sproket

but again

2) ALWAYS CHANGE BOTH WHEN YOU CHANGE THE CHAIN


3) and dont compare a motorcycle drive to a bicycle... 4) bikes dont have 40+ HP like the GS does... 5)nor will a bike ever see 50+MPH or go 10k+ mi on a single chain


and the deal with differant teeth:

the front sproket is smaller then the rear so it has to go around 2 times (or so) for ever time the rear goes around once...

less teeth up front= more speed off the line -6) the cost is fuel MPG goes down and you loose top speed
MORE teeth up front= less speed off the line BUT- better MPG and.... still probally have less top speed (as wind > GS HP)

those are the opposite for the rear.

more teeth in the rear = more speed off the line. less MPG ect.

7) stock is 17/39 (front/rear)

many people run something like i do 15/39 and many opt for the inbetween  16/39

my bike is ALOT faster around town but the MPG are NOT what i'd like. im going to a 16/39 next time around for more pep and better (then current) MPG

1) well, not really. your rear cog just might last for the life of the bike. check it , sure, but i'll bet you'll find it's fine.
2) why, if you don't need to ?
3) but, they're so similar !
4) ever heard of lance armstrong ? (i know, i know, but still)
5) mine does, actually. i've been just about 52 mph, and have around 14,000 miles on my old trek
6) your mpg can increase and top end also increase with a 15 tooth, as the power is blah blah blah - so i've heard.
(my mpg hovers around 50-55 mpg, depending on how much twist is involved)
7) stock is 16/39

i've tried a 15/39 for a while now. it's fine. 1st gear has just a touch more pull, and stop and go traffic is more easily managed. interstate rpm's are still quite managable, as it only increased 700 (don't quote me) or so rpm's at 75mph (indicated).

don't worry about messing up your speedometer, as it's driven by the front wheel. (a plus!)

yes, you're right about the non o-ring chains being inferior. get a nice o-ring chain, with or without the master (people get huffy about this) and enjoy another 24-30,000 miles of riding.

again, you do -not- need to change the rear with each chain change. the gs isn't a torque monster, and doesn't eat through cogs/chains like R1's do.

keep it clean and lubed, and it will give service for a long time.

the gs500 wiki has tons of useful information. occasionally spam bots infect it, but we rectify fast when someone notices   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_GS500#Specifications

starshooter10 - this comment was meant to be as factually correct as possible, while still having a sense of humor. don't take it personal

[pjm204]

I say you just do the 1/8" chain conversion, then you can get new chains for 12.99 at your local bicycle shop.....hahahaha jk.
Anyway while I no longer own a GS, everything I have read says the rear sprocket will likely last longer than you keep the bike. I would probably just find an inexpensive o-ring chain on Ebay and a 17t sprocket.

[sledge]

There are no hard and fast rules when it comes to replacing sprockets along with chains. Examine them both and make your own call, its good practise to replace them as a pair but wasting your hard earned isnt.  You will find the engine side always wears quickest because it does more work but they dont wear at the same rate.
Poor adjustment, riding like a **** and a lack of cleaning and lubrication will kill a new chain quicker than any mildly worn sprocket

[GeeP]

There are no hard and fast rules when it comes to replacing sprockets along with chains. Examine them both and make your own call, its good practise to replace them as a pair but wasting your hard earned isnt.  You will find the engine side always wears quickest because it does more work but they dont wear at the same rate.
Poor adjustment, riding like a **** and a lack of cleaning and lubrication will kill a new chain quicker than any mildly worn sprocket

I'm on the second chain on my current set of sprockets.  I have a spare set here, but they were will within specification when I did the chain.  The front will be changed out soon, but the rear will probably last until the end of this chain.  Much more engagement on the rear than in the front.

Lack of lubrication and dirt is what destroys a chain.  Worn sprocket geometry can cause bushing wear, but it has to be pretty gnarly!

I consider a sprocket "done" when more than 20% of the tooth profile is gone.

I consider a chain "done" when it goes from the "tight" spec to the "loose" spec in under 400 miles or any section of the chain exceeds the wear limit.  Whichever comes first.