Here, lets screw poor people....

[makenzie71]

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=110_cong_bills&docid=f:h4040enr.txt.pdf

If you've got the patience read it all, but if not you can just go straight to:

http://www.tampabays10.com/news/mostpop/story.aspx?storyid=96284&provider=top

...and that will give you the potential effect.

Anyone else think this "lead" thing is going just a little bit retarded?

[trumpetguy]

Mak, I respectfully suggest that after May gets here and you are a father, you may feel differently.  I certainly don't want my grandchildren (2.5, 1.5, and 1 year old) playing with lead painted toys.

The REAL enemy here is China, and the US importers who have enabled China to ignore US laws on lead.  That is who the act is aimed at -- now they will have to get their plastic crap tested by a third party.  If the corporations who run the world followed the rules, we wouldn't need laws like this.

[makenzie71]

Dude the people who made the toys aren't the ones who have to get them tested.  It also isn't just China's toys.  It's all of them.

Also, China and the importers aren't the culprits...it's the American people in general.  Rather than watch our kids to make sure they're not eating their toys we'll just regulate the industry to the point that only countries like China can even afford to sell to us.

[yamahonkawazuki]

Dude the people who made the toys aren't the ones who have to get them tested.  It also isn't just China's toys.  It's all of them.

Also, China and the importers aren't the culprits...it's the American people in general.  Rather than watch our kids to make sure they're not eating their toys we'll just regulate the industry to the point that only countries like China can even afford to sell to us.

true mak, but children in general will put ANYTHING into their mouths. would be simple to suggest people watch tehir children 24/7 while playing, but well its not gonna happen, mak youll know this soon enough, myself ive no children, i do however help wiht the raising of a lady friends kids, 5,3, and 2, the five year old and the three year old dont eat their toys , but teh 2 year old however does sometimes, and no  im not gonna accept, " youre not a parent so STFU. from anybody. im aorund those kids more than their father is china's QC ( quality control dept is lax, as im sure many other countries like that are. and im sure we ( the us) can shoulder some of the blame as well. cause we make kids toys as well as clothing.

[Cal Price]

You really do not want lead paint and kids mixing, now and again we have a scandal where some toy with (usually) a well known brand name is found not to comply with law on lead and is withdrawn from sale, often with fines etc, invariably the offending article is "Made in China"

[ohgood]

the poor people will continue to sell n swap, just not pay taxes on it.

as far as lead- yes mak, it's a really really bad thing. let it go man.

[yamahonkawazuki]

Indeed

[spc]

Anyone care to guess how many lead related child deaths there have been in the US in the last 3 years?





















1, and it wasn't even caused by a toy.   


You people realize that this will put  hundreds of small AMERICAN businesses out on their ass while solidifying China's hold on our economy?

[makenzie71]

Anyone care to guess how many lead related child deaths there have been in the US in the last 3 years?





















1, and it wasn't even caused by a toy.   


You people realize that this will put hundreds of small AMERICAN businesses out on their ass while solidifying China's hold on our economy?

And THAT, my friends, is the damned point.  This screws low-profit second hand stores and the low-income families that shop there.  This does not touch China, or any other manufacturer.  No, you can not watch your child 100% of the time, but lead in the toys isn't anywhere near the top of the list of dangerous sh!t in your house.

Lead is something that shouldn't be in toys or clothes or jewelry or paint.  That part is not arguable.  However, it's also not arguable that it's simply not this damn important.  Don't let your kids eat their toys or the paint off the wall etc and you won't have a problem, and if you think this is all China's fault just don't buy any damn Chinese toys.

Of course, the biggest thing here that scares me is that the government jumped on something so small in importance and choked the industries down to the point that very few can even compete.  What happens when they realize that the family dog has killed more children in the last fifty years than lead has made sick?

This is one of those things that falls in Trumpetguy's signature...but it's just our freedom.  It's everything.  Take it all away, just don't hurt me.

[trumpetguy]

But the importers who buy from the $%^ Chinese will now have to pay to get them tested, and that MAY make those prices somewhat more competitive with domestically produced toys. 

Besides, it's only a bill that wil be introduced, right?  It has to go through committee and be amended to take out the unforeseen problems like the secondhand store effect.

[makenzie71]

Trumpetguy..it's not something that is going to change anything as far as manufacturing goes because the manufactures have to meet certain standards and have had to meet those standards for decades.  All the manufacturers.  The standards are now more strict, but it's more strict for EVERYONE, not just the Chinese.  The issue here is concerning the items that have already been shipped to the distributors.

Every single item intended for children on the shelf in the United States, made prior to August of 2008, has to be pulled off and tested.  The manufacturers aren't having the items tested.  The distributors have to have them tested.  They have pull the items off the shelves, ship them to a third party for testing, and THEY have to pay for it.  "They" being the distributors...not the manufacturers.

Now, some places like Wal-Mart sell toys and they are a multi-billion dollar profit organization that can afford to have an expensive third party come in and test all the items that predate August, 2008...but it's not going to be easy for them.

Think, now, about the places like the low/no profit Salvation Army and Good Will stores who sell the same items, though used, to low-income families at greatly discounted prices.  These places will also have to pull any items off the shelf that predate August, 2008 and send them to a third party for testing...and pay for it.

This becomes mandate in Fabruary...the 10th, I believe....it was passed when Congress convinced themselves that the current restrictions weren't severe enough last August.

[trumpetguy]

My bad on the date.  When I first opened the PDF my brain was saying 2009.

And I understand your point about it being more strict for everyone.  However, our manufacturers cannot even BUY paint with lead in it, so they are ahead of the game.  The Chinese have been doing whatever is cheapest and most profitable in the short term (melamine to enhance protein readings, propylene glycol substituting for glycerine, lead in paint, etc.) even when that has lead to animal and human deaths.  I do want my grandchildren (and your future child) protected from such thieving and heartless bastards.

Perhaps an amendment can be made to protect small businesses.  Even something like a requirement that a label or sign be posted to alert the buyer that the product has NOT been tested.  Personally, I try like hell not to buy Chinese made products, but it's almost impossible in some categories, especially if one is on a budget or has limited retail options due to a rural location.  The HUGE market share gain of the Chinese is probably the number one reason I hate Wal-Mart.

[yamahonkawazuki]

lol yup prolly 99% ( esaggeration) of the crap inside walmart is chinese. or some country owned by them

[gearman]

Anyone care to guess how many lead related child deaths there have been in the US in the last 3 years?

Child deaths due to lead exposure isn't the issue.

Exposure to lead can have a wide range of effects on a child's development and behavior. Even when exposed to small amounts of lead levels, children may appear inattentive, hyperactive and irritable. Children with greater lead levels may also have problems with learning and reading, delayed growth and hearing loss. At high levels, lead can cause permanent brain damage and even death.

http://www.aacap.org/cs/root/facts_for_families/lead_exposure_in_children_affects_brain_and_behavior

I couldn't get the second link to work and the document in the first link would probably require a room full of carpetbaggers to decode. I'm guessing that our genius lawmakers have again proposed knee jerk-unenforcable regulation. What a surprise.

The HUGE market share gain of the Chinese is probably the number one reason I hate Wal-Mart.

Blame the American consumer. Most will buy the inferior import without a second thought...and pay nearly as much (in some cases MORE) than they would the US made item! If they don't buy the Chinese chit from Wal-Mart, another American retailer will gladly provide it for them. We've spent the last quarter of a century making this bed now we have to lay (or maybe die) in it. Wal-mart sells plenty of US made products. Probably as many as the other large retailers. I buy as few imported, and as many US made products as possible from Wal-Mart or any retailer. This sends the message that people want to buy US made products. If the trend to buy American increases, so will the number of domestic products on the shelves of all retailers.

[makenzie71]

Again, the Chinese children goods aren't being targeted.  It's ALL the children goods.  All.  Chinese, Taiwanese, Japanese, Mexican, Peruvian, French, Italian, American, Martian...all of it.

[trumpetguy]

The HUGE market share gain of the Chinese is probably the number one reason I hate Wal-Mart.

Blame the American consumer. Most will buy the inferior import without a second thought...and pay nearly as much (in some cases MORE) than they would the US made item! If they don't buy the Chinese chit from Wal-Mart, another American retailer will gladly provide it for them. We've spent the last quarter of a century making this bed now we have to lay (or maybe die) in it. Wal-mart sells plenty of US made products. Probably as many as the other large retailers. I buy as few imported, and as many US made products as possible from Wal-Mart or any retailer. This sends the message that people want to buy US made products. If the trend to buy American increases, so will the number of domestic products on the shelves of all retailers.

My problem is that in the rural location where I live, there are NO choices (in some cases) where to buy some things other than Wal-Mart.  It's pretty hard to send a message without choices!

I also try to buy American, but have you shopped for furniture lately?  Unless you have mega-$$$$$$$ you'll be buying Chinese-made furniture.  We have bought a good bit of furniture in the last few years, and most furniture stores don't have ANY American-made finished wood items.  Couches, maybe, but not tables and other wood furniture. 

I asked a salesman about it, and he gave me a song and dance about regulations in the US vs. in China for lacquer and other spray finishes.  What it boils down to  is US importers are willing to buy (and re-sell) furniture made in factories that would be considered harmful to the health of the workers here.  And when China begins to protect their workers, we'll move to other impoverished Asian countries and then perhaps African countries.  I often wonder what will happen when we have exhausted every option and every country in the world protects their workers.

[yamahonkawazuki]

Easy answer TG, WHEN that happens, if weve not gotten smarter about laquers and such, we'll pay more

[bettingpython]

Thrift stores will no longer be able to sell childrens second hand clothing, small boutique businesses will no longer be able to sell things such as home made wooden trains and handmade kids clothes. Your only choice will be to buy new from big retail as they will be the only ones who can afford all the testing. It will also raise the prices of childrens goods because just like a tax businesses don't pay them they just tack it onto the price and pass it along to the consumer.

I have a 9 year old, as a child I had cousins and was always getting hand me downs, I'm not that lucky with my son. I buy lots of clothes for him new but I doante alot to goodwill and salvation army thrift stores when he outgrows them, I have already been told that they will shortly not be accepting anymore childrens clothes because effective 2/11/09 if they can't afford to test them they are being forced to throw them out by law, any untested articles are to be assumed toxic. Way to go big brother once again in an attempt to help you've overshot your goal affected small businesses and charity/thrift stores and families with children. I usually do some jeans shopping at thrift stores when I go donate clothes he has outgrown. 

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
No good deed goes unpunished.

[yamahonkawazuki]

government FTL Eh?

[makenzie71]

Thrift stores will no longer be able to sell childrens second hand clothing, small boutique businesses will no longer be able to sell things such as home made wooden trains and handmade kids clothes. Your only choice will be to buy new from big retail as they will be the only ones who can afford all the testing. It will also raise the prices of childrens goods because just like a tax businesses don't pay them they just tack it onto the price and pass it along to the consumer.

I have a 9 year old, as a child I had cousins and was always getting hand me downs, I'm not that lucky with my son. I buy lots of clothes for him new but I doante alot to goodwill and salvation army thrift stores when he outgrows them, I have already been told that they will shortly not be accepting anymore childrens clothes because effective 2/11/09 if they can't afford to test them they are being forced to throw them out by law, any untested articles are to be assumed toxic. Way to go big brother once again in an attempt to help you've overshot your goal affected small businesses and charity/thrift stores and families with children. I usually do some jeans shopping at thrift stores when I go donate clothes he has outgrown. 

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
No good deed goes unpunished.

Finally...someone else here realizes how ridiculous it is.