Huge Non PC post - Please leave your sensibilities at the door or stay out.

[nightrider]

This is knee jerk reaction, any policy or regional analyst will tell you the people who become radical Islamists come from f'ed up places and situations. If those situations didn't exist for whatever reason, there wouldn't be such a problem. If it wasn't radical Islam, somebody would start a Pakistani Crips gang and it would all go downhill from there.

[yamahonkawazuki]

aye there have baan radical ( insert group here) since there has been groups of people. and unfortunately i dont see this ending any time soon

[wladziu]

Been there, done that. 


Some of you come close, but none of you have a clue, as usual.  Not your fault.

So sad to see everybody always grasping at ways to interpret this, and always coming up short. 
I could tell you guys so much, and you'd forget it in 5 minutes.  But, what does it matter, when you're can just lock your door, right?

But, what do I know...

[wladziu]

This is the forum where guys feel comfortable alluding to themselves as vigilantes because they don't like their neighbors, of course. 


Such big talk; such little people. 

[Weston]

So... I dont really know what your trying to say. Here is what i got from it: I know more than all you guys but im not going to talk about it...then somthing about vigilantees and neighbors.

[jserio]

light travels faster than sound. this is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.     

[The Buddha]

I sorta will agree with Cal's point. The part he's not explicitly saying is this ... atheists usually are governed by a moral code. Its almost as if their internal consciousness says, "you've given up the fact that there is god you moron, now you better be extra nice or you're going to a double secret hell".

And they cant say, "die in the name of allah you infidel".
Cool.
Buddha.

[scottpA_GS]

light travels faster than sound. this is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.     

 

[wladziu]

So... I dont really know what your trying to say. Here is what i got from it: I know more than all you guys but im not going to talk about it...then somthing about vigilantees and neighbors.

Yeah, I actually do know more.  This guy agrees:
http://www.amazon.com/Sleeping-Custer-7th-Cavalry-Embedded/dp/0809326728
He was an inbed with my unit when we led OIF I. 

Here's a few more guys that agree with me:
http://www.amazon.com/Generation-Kill-Evan-Wright/dp/0425224740/ref=pd_sim_b_3

http://www.amazon.com/No-True-Glory-Frontline-Fallujah/dp/0553383191/ref=pd_sim_b_4
(We bailed those guys out.  Marines whine when they start getting shot at.)

http://www.amazon.com/Chasing-Ghosts-Failures-Soldiers-Perspective/dp/B0017I0KWC/ref=pd_sim_b_1

Your reponse, and others like it, are exactly the reason why I don't bother telling you more than I do. 
The type of folks that think they know exactly what it's like when your LT tells you to take out a car full of "terrorists".  Then they turn out to be a refugee family, and you watch a little girl fall out of the back seat. 
Or when you spend a night taking headshots on "terrorists" hiding in a wheat field, and they turn out to be farmers hiding from our tanks. 
Or you watch a grown man stand in front of a tank with just an AK, and realize he's a braver son of a b1tch than you are.  But, you shoot him anyway.  Then, the liason tells you afterward that Iraqi soldiers families were held captive until they had shot at least one full magazine. 



Then, you come home, and watch people treat everyone in the exact same manner, except without rifles, every single day. 
People don't have a clue about the things I've seen, and don't really give a crap, anyway.  Just keep going to church, and listening to what the guy in front tells you.

I await another snappy retort. 

[Weston]

I will say that was a much more compelling post than your first. I understand that war is a terrible terrible thing. I don't think you understand what the guy in the front preaches in my church. Its far less political or war related than you may think. I'm not sure what you mean by "the same things without rifles" though. Are you saying that we are just the same as radical islam here? Or that Christianity is the same principle as radical islam? Because its not.

[wladziu]

Yes, it's exactly what I'm saying. 

Saw a guy in another platoon blow up an entire bus of refugees with a HEAT round.  He laughed about it for weeks, kids running around like cartoon characters on fire.  Southern baptist bible-thumper. 
Knew another guy that loved to hit taxis, even after we told him they were refugees trying to get out.  His platoon sergeant thought it was hilarious.

My first real firefight was outside of a little farming town.  Farmers trying to fight a troop of tanks with rifles and crappy little Russian mortars.  Maybe you'd have done the same thing, if some other country's tanks were rolling through your town?  Their wives were picking up the bodies at 3 in the morning with wheelbarrows and donkey carts, walking right through lines of fire.  CO thought it was great to call in A-10's, dropped two 500 lb bombs on them, wives and all. 

They say that radical Muslims like to hide in crowds so they won't get shot, and yes, they do.  I've seen it.  Didn't seem very radical to me.  Seemed more like somebody that's scared.  Saw the gunner try to shoot him, anyway.  So, which is more radical?  A guy in a tank getting shot by a guy in with an AK?  Sounds pretty brave to me. 

At the time, we all thought these things were acceptable, too.  Saying that a farmer's shovel looked just like an RPG, just so you could win a headshot competition.  And on, and on, and on. 
So, what's the difference between an American soldier and a radical Islamic terrorist, or any other kid trying to live up to what his society tells him to do for respect?  We do what we're led to believe. 
But, don't listen to me. 
Listen to vets of all the other wars we've had. 

[spc]

So, what's the difference between an American soldier and a radical Islamic terrorist, or any other kid trying to live up to what his society tells him to do for respect?  We do what we're led to believe. 
But, don't listen to me. 
Listen to vets of all the other wars we've had. 

If you've seen the Band of Brothers series, this point is made really well in the last episode when a captured German General addresses his troops for the last time.

[wladziu]

My truck was almost hit by an IED, the second time I was there.  Still have a piece of shrapnel from the crater it left, got it sitting on my bookshelf.  I'll take a picture of it, if you want.  
They blew the thing too early.  So, I wasn't just some hippie hiding behind a few feet of armor.  

But, who am I kidding.  You guys know more than me and the other vets.  
Hence, my first seemingly cryptic posting.  

Guess it isn't really "bright", as the guy said, to hope someone might listen.  





And, to that other British kid that was talking on that other thread about refugees from Kosovo "invading" his town.  I was sent there a month after my wedding.  Our mission in Kosovo was one of the only things in the military that I was actually proud of.  
Unless there are mass burial pits scattered around your region or all the orphans live in the town garbage dump (living off of dead mules and horses), then why complain about people leaving such conditions?  Inconvenience?  
Women and their babies dying because the hospitals won't let them in to give birth, because they're not Roman Catholic (and thus, unclean).  People getting killed in retaliation, and so on, and on, and on.  But, that's all over, now.  Hope it didn't inconvenience you too much, or your "clean" town.

[wladziu]

If you've seen the Band of Brothers series, this point is made really well in the last episode when a captured German General addresses his troops for the last time.

I can't watch those shows anymore, but I can imagine what you mean.  Wish people would listen to stuff like that.  But, I didn't before I became a vet.  Guess I can't blame them. 
I realize it's hard to listen to that type of thing, when you think your ideals on the matter are what keep you safe.  Especially when we're being told so many opposing points by so many respected people.  It's hard to question them. 
But, one day you might get to see a buddy's brain matter on the road, getting run over like pieces of a dead squirrel.  Or dogs fighting over some guy's arm.  Or a little girl laying face down on a highway with blood on her dress, wishing she'd get up and run away because it would mean your buddy's aren't as evil as everybody else. 


People do extremely cruel things to each other every single day (like I said), even in the stupid grocery store.  Whether if it's with a rifle or a car, or just treating each other like crap.  It's the same crap, for the same reasons.  Just trying to squeeze out a little place where you and your family can live in peace, have enough to eat and keep yourselves clean.  The screwed up part comes when people (especially teenage/twenty-something boys) try to earn respect.  Or, when people think they deserve a little bit more than the other guy. 

[Toogoofy317]

First I'm sorry that someone " saying they are a Christian" did not represent what Christ wants us to be. I try my best to be a humble person because I am not a good enough person to enter heaven on my own. Honesty, I don't think there is a soul on this planet can say I have never done wrong. If you have be the first to throw a stone at me! I attend a Southern Baptist church and while I cannot speak for everyone there I know many of them walk the walk instead of talk the talk. You know it is not just the soldier that sees tragedy. I've been shot at and once was almost choked out with my own stethoscope in the back of an ambulance. I've had to hide behind an ambulance while a raging husband shot his wife in front of me and I had to watch her die because I could not approach 'till the police arrived. After the four hurricanes hit Fl in 2006 I had to walk the woods and drag out the homeless people that died because they didn't think a shelter would take them in. But, we signed up for this we knew what the game was and yeah we have to live with the consequences and the rewards that came with our chosen profession.

I tried to walk this journey alone and it did not work. For so many years I held hate for God because I could not comprehend the senselessness and bad in this world. I mean why would God give me parents that tried to kill me! Or why did I get heart failure at 21. Why because it made me who I am. It took me almost dying in an ICU bed with noone who knew me for hundreds of miles away to realize I was not alone and that there was an unconditional love that no human could ever give me. And it was Christians who took me in when I could not make it home. They didn't know me but that didn't matter they said "never turn away a stranger because it could be angels you are hosting". When I was 25 I first stepped into a church. I was always told that you gotta dress up, you gotta act a certain way, you gotta do certain things. As I stood there in shorts and t-shirt weak, hurting and well dying. The preacher walked up to me and asked why hadn't I let Him in. How could he have even known that no one even knew me in that small town. And while I had bargained with God in the hospital bed this is when I let the anger go. The Pastor wanted to do baptism right then because there is no time like the present. I informed him that I just had a defibrillator implanted and could not be immersed. So, we did it in the Kitchen sink! I promised that when I got back home I would look up a church and start going. Well, we know how life goes I left  there in September. In March I was back in ICU with heart failure yet again. I was on my last car payment but could not make it so they were trying to reposses it. While I was trying to figure out what I was going to do I got a call from a pastor at First Baptist of Kissimmee he said that someone from Lake City had called them that I needed a good church home and if I wanted to come in and talk. I explained to him where I was. He asked what could they do to help me " my last car payment would be nice!" I didn't know what I would do without a car probably die cause I wouldn't make it to my doctors. He said when I get out to stop by the church. When I got out I'm like what do I got to lose. I came in spoke with the pastor and they cut a check right then and there for a person they didn't even know. So, I've been going there ever since. When I lost my insurance a physician at the Church saw me for free and got me my heart medication.

So, while I have met many "hypocritical Christians" my life has also been saved on many occasions by real Christians. I just wish that my actions show those of a real Christian. We all fall short of God but it is a good feeling to be forgiven.

I apologise if I offended anyone but I don't like to be stereotyped either!

Mary

[yamahonkawazuki]

agreed, im a southern baptist but i do NOT go our of my way to ffend people or even try to. ive seen vbloodshed, ive been part of a volunteer rescue squad, , in my town. i had to retrieve a headless body from the river from a guy trying to cross a railroad bridge, and then find his head, that was f%$king nasty, first time i ever saw something like that, and tbh i lsot my lunch

[Weston]

That's awesome Mary. Couldn't agree more. wladziu, I'm sorry for what you have seen from so called Christians. I'm not going to say that were perfect, but if someone is truely following Christ's teaching, you would hear more stories like Mary's and see less things like your friend that blew up the bus and laughed about it. I understand that people do stupid hurtful things to each other all the time;(Its refered to in the Bible as our sinful nature) but that is why we need God. He helps us overcome it.

[yamahonkawazuki]

aye wladziu, what your  friends did, was not christian like, not at all. basically it was like what weston said.  i like the saying, let ye who is sinless cast the first stone. and after many years ive yet to see any rocks flying

[wladziu]

If you believe Christianity helps you be a better person, then that's awesome. 

However, there's a certain loophole that I'm severely aware of:
http://www.akroaterion.org/Newsite/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=44

In case you don't wanna read the entire thing; if you're a soldier following orders, "Thou shalt not kill" does not apply to you. 

About halfway through OIF 1, I was having a real problem with this.  As the article says, should the correct terminology be "murder" or actually "kill"?  And, at what point does it become murder, if both soldiers are equally standing up for themselves?  I could go on, but I'm sure that no one wants to hear it.





See, these are not things that most people bother (or care) to think about, because it doesn't really concern them.  But, it's very real to me. 

This applies to the conversation, on the subject of radical religions.  Apparently, I don't have the vocabulary to convey my thoughts the way I'd like, which is part of my frustration.  Not just you guys.  Plus, I'm a Quaker, which is even more frustrating nowadays. 

[wladziu]

This is knee jerk reaction, any policy or regional analyst will tell you the people who become radical Islamists come from f'ed up places and situations. If those situations didn't exist for whatever reason, there wouldn't be such a problem. If it wasn't radical Islam, somebody would start a Pakistani Crips gang and it would all go downhill from there.

This is absolutely correct. 
100%
fun bags and taters

If it's not readily apparent from the situation over the past few years, trying to control this dynamic with police action and violence just "stirs the pot" even more.  Round and round we go, so to speak. 
Not to be esoteric, but there are other ways of going about it. 
And, in my opinion, those are the things we should be talking about.