LED indicator and turn signal circuit information [pics]

[Esteban]

I just wanted to condense information about using LED indicators and make some suggested fixes for the common "all lights blink" problem.  Note that the best thing to do is get an electronic relay regardless of what you are doing because any of the fixes using load resistors will negate any sort of power savings (as you will see in the load resistor circuit).  The best ways to fix the problem are (from best to worst, in my opinion):

• Fix 4
• Fix 1
• Fix 3
• Fix 2

Stock


Front LED signals (will speed up blink rate due to decreased power usage, see P in the stats in lower left)


Front and Back LED signals (All Blink Problem)


Fix 1:
Fixing all blink problem with stock indicator lamp and diodes (better for circuit design)


Fix 2:
Fixing all blink problem with stock indicator lamp and load resistors (easier for wiring, but BAD for power)


Fix 3:
Fixing all blink problem with LED indicator lamp (V1-inelegant)


Fix 4:
Fixing all blink problem with LED indicator lamp (V2)

[Esteban]

And if anyone is interested in running the simulations, go here:
http://www.falstad.com/circuit/
And import any of the following code.

Stock: http://tinypaste.com/95413
Front LED signals: http://tinypaste.com/bda91
Front and Back LED signals (All Blink Problem): http://tinypaste.com/1a379
Fixing all blink problem with stock indicator lamp and diodes (better for circuit design): http://tinypaste.com/283b0cc
Fixing all blink problem with stock indicator lamp and load resistors (easier for wiring): http://tinypaste.com/9f288
Fixing all blink problem with LED indicator lamp (V1-inelegant): http://tinypaste.com/14775
Fixing all blink problem with LED indicator lamp (V2): http://tinypaste.com/43cc9

[fred]

Very cool! This should go in the FAQ so people can refer to it for years to come.

[Green]

I'm an idiot when it comes to electronics (among other things),  but it looks like Fix 4 is using two LED indicator bulbs? One for left and right?

That's the only difference I can see between Fix 3 & 4.

So from a practical standpoint, how would you wire this up?

[Esteban]

I'm an idiot when it comes to electronics (among other things),  but it looks like Fix 4 is using two LED indicator bulbs? One for left and right?

That's the only difference I can see between Fix 3 & 4.

So from a practical standpoint, how would you wire this up?

From a theoretical standpoint, 1 and 4 are the same.  The only difference is that Fix 1 uses 2 diodes with the lightbulb and the Fix 4 uses 2 LEDs (Light Emitting Diodes) with a current limiting resistor.  The neat thing about Fix 4 is that each LED would show which blinker is on.  So, you could either relocate them or use different colors to differentiate the two sides.

The difference between Fix 3 and Fix 4 is a little more complicated because technically, you are still passing current through the other side's lights when you use resistors as in Fix 3.  Whenever you do that, you risk all 4 lights lighting (it is essentially the same as using the indicator light, but you are technically increasing the resistance between the two sides).

As for wiring these up, unfortunately all of the "good" methods require a ground line to be run to the indicator bulb housing.  I'm working on some LED turn signals that have running lights (inspired by: http://www.customled.com/products/flushmount/flushmount.htm), but I'll see if and what can be done to prevent the need for running an additional ground..

[Esteban]

Don't mind me, I'm working on some running light modules for the GS500F, so just putting the http://www.falstad.com/circuit/ info here:

Code Select Expand

$ 1 5.0E-6 8.281975887399955 30 5.0 50
R 64 128 32 128 0 2 100.0 6.5 6.5 0.0 0.5
s 64 128 128 128 0 0 false
S 64 192 128 192 0 1 false 0
r 160 160 160 224 0 58.0
w 160 160 128 160 0
w 128 160 128 176 0
w 160 224 128 224 0
w 128 224 128 208 0
g 416 224 416 256 0
R 144 32 112 32 0 0 40.0 13.0 0.0 0.0 0.5
f 320 64 368 64 1 1.5
w 128 144 128 128 0
w 128 144 64 144 0
w 64 144 64 192 0
r 544 176 544 224 0 6.0
w 544 128 416 128 0
w 544 224 416 224 0
w 416 128 416 224 0
f 320 160 368 160 1 1.5
w 368 176 544 176 0
w 144 32 368 32 0
w 368 32 368 48 0
w 368 32 400 32 0
w 368 144 400 144 0
r 320 64 320 112 0 10.0
r 320 160 320 208 0 10.0
w 160 64 320 64 0
w 320 160 160 160 0
w 160 160 160 64 0
g 320 112 320 128 0
g 320 208 320 240 0
g 320 432 320 464 0
g 320 336 320 352 0
w 320 384 160 384 0
w 160 288 320 288 0
r 320 384 320 432 0 10.0
r 320 288 320 336 0 10.0
w 368 368 400 368 0
w 368 400 544 400 0
f 320 384 368 384 1 1.5
w 416 352 416 448 0
w 544 448 416 448 0
w 544 352 416 352 0
w 368 304 544 304 0
r 544 400 544 448 0 6.0
r 544 304 544 352 0 6.0
f 320 288 368 288 1 1.5
g 416 448 416 480 0
w 368 272 400 272 0
w 400 272 400 144 0
w 400 272 400 368 0
w 160 224 160 288 0
w 160 288 160 384 0
x 66 94 129 97 0 12 Turn Signal
x 568 112 628 115 0 12 Right Front
x 568 203 627 206 0 12 Right Rear
x 566 335 617 338 0 12 Left Front
x 567 425 617 428 0 12 Left Rear
x 68 239 120 242 0 12 Left/Right
r 544 80 544 128 0 6.0
w 368 80 544 80 0
w 400 144 400 32 0
o 9 64 0 33 10.0 6.4 0 -1
o 0 64 0 33 10.0 3.2 1 -1


[Worm]

What do you use for the square waveform generator?

[Paulcet]

What do you use for the square waveform generator?

You use a turn signal relay!   

[Homer]

Alright, then,


What if your left front blinks 3 times, then stays steady at half brightness.
The right front doesn't blink at all.
The left rear works fine.
Right rear - can't remember, but it's something just as weird.  

All 4 are LED's.  Considered switching back to plain bulbs, but I'm pretty sure it won't help.  
I inherited the problem.  Paid to have it fixed, cause I couldn't wrap my head around it.  
They worked fine for about a month.  

It's gotta be a short, but I've got no idea where.  

[Paulcet]

It's gotta be a short, but I've got no idea where. 

Loose or corroded connection would be my bet.  Is your relay electronic or standard?  Does your bike have "load balancing" resistors?

[Homer]

No, not loose.  It's all soldered. 
Standard relay, and no added resistors. Those would help, yeah.

If I push the switch to go right, it won't work unless I push to turn left first. 
(That's the thing I couldn't remember.)
After that, it won't work.  Just works once, then I have to push left, again. 

I've cleaned the switch a few times already.  Removed the corrosion with q-tips and acetone.  No looseness or anything.
No water in the connections, just lotsa dead spiders. 

[Paulcet]

Yup.  Gotta have either electronic relay or load resistors.  The standard relay can not work correctly with the low current load of LEDs.

[Toogoofy317]

I got a used load balancer if ya want it?

I got sick of my LEDs.

Mary

[adidasguy]

I've been replacing lots of my house lights with LED lights.
One company I bought from has a whole assortment of LED lamps, load balancers and flasher units for automotive work.
I just got a GS500F so I haven't had a chance to see what ones would work best, but you can see what they have
at ledlight.com. There are a lot to chose from.
I have used the T10's for my yard lights.

[IAmSpartacus]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread.

Here's another "elegant" solution according to the guys at customled.com:

1. Install their (or other) electronic flasher relay
2. Cut wires to stock indicator lamp in gauge cluster
3. Wire left turn signal wire coming from cluster as a permanent ground (-)
4. Remaining right wire from cluster becomes permanent positive (+)
5. Install diodes (part # 1N4001) on both left and right wires coming from blinkers (+ wire into diode gray stripe side)
6. Wire both left and right blinker wires with newly installed diodes to positive wire coming from gauge cluster

[adidasguy]

I believe you mean this.

[IAmSpartacus]

Indeed. Thanks for adding fancy pictures to my boring text 

[mrdrprof]

Where do I need to install the diodes at? I can't see the pictures