Many problems with Engine

[bladebj]

Hi everybody i m Armagan from Turkey from Middle East Technical University I have a little gs500e 98" orange, when i bought this bike it looks very terrible (i will put some photo), whatever, my problems;

1. While starting the engine (here is cold reigon temprature is 00-10c these days), firts 5-10minutes from carb side i have some sound like a short bird (maybe 1ms) scream. and pistons have very noise, i noticed that they are locked sometimes but after engine is warmed up there is no problem with these.
2. When bike is on low RPM i cannot get any accelaration on first gear on taking off.Like ,although i turn my throttle no gas runs into engine but sometimes and after progressive and high rpm using its more often. sound is very raucous at these times but when i throttle more very quickly engine goes normal.
3. After some progressive drive in high RPM like 20 min, when bike is on the idle i get some noise from the engine like hitting a big stone to another very scary sound to me

but in the High RPM i cannot notice any different noise or power loss but in low rpm and in the idle engine has no stablitiy and no good sound and no good performance

i will do something in this month
1. i will check cyclinder head
2. i will clean up carb

but third problem is very scary one because although sound is not loud as normally heard, very powerful not like a little piece of metal parts like a big rock hit the wall but no vibration more in the engine while this happening

Thanks for all sorry about bad english

[Trwhouse]

Hi Armagan,
Welcome to our GS500 world.
I met a man from Istanbul several years ago and he sold me some model toy taxicabs of old black and yellow Istanbul Ford taxis. Very cool.
About your bike, I have several questions:
How many miles on the bike?
If you unscrew the oil dipstick, what does the oil look like? Smell like? Any white creamy stuff in the oil (that would be water)? Does it smell burned? It it translucent or opaque in color?
Have you ever checked the valve adjustment on the engine?
The noises you describe are not sounding good, though one noise that is common on the GS500 is camshaft end play -- where the cam moves sideways in its mountings and makes a "banging noise." But that is in the top of the engine and is very easy to find.
Is the noise only when the engine is COLD?
And it goes away when it warms up?
That could be valve adjustment -- you could have very loose valve lash.
Or it could be piston slap, where the cylinder bores are worn due to poor oil maintenance.
It also sounds like that bird squeal you mentioned could be an air intake leak. Maybe one of your black rubber carburetor boots is cracked or loose and is leaking air? That could cause engine damage due to running excessively lean, which would describe some of the other problems you are having with the bike.
There also could be a vacuum leak from a  vacuum hose.
Your running and idle problems are likely carbs related, probably from dirt and sludge in the jets and tiny fuel passages that need to be cleaned.
Your noises when riding can also be related to very loose chain adjustment -- there could be chain slippage around the engine-mounted countershaft sprocket that you are haring below you. If the adjustment is very loose, it could be very noisy and make "banging" noises you describe.
There are ways to check all of this, but let's start with more detailed symptoms from you to help us figure it out.
It could be a lot of things.
Tell us more and let's see what we can figure out.
Please be very careful riding this until you fix it!
Best wishes and welcome again, my friend.
Yours,
Trwhouse 

P.S. You English is fine, by the way. You should see the "English" of some of the wizards here on the board who are from the United States.

Hi everybody i m Armagan from Turkey from Middle East Technical University I have a little gs500e 98" orange, when i bought this bike it looks very terrible (i will put some photo), whatever, my problems;

1. While starting the engine (here is cold reigon temprature is 00-10c these days), firts 5-10minutes from carb side i have some sound like a short bird (maybe 1ms) scream. and pistons have very noise, i noticed that they are locked sometimes but after engine is warmed up there is no problem with these.
2. When bike is on low RPM i cannot get any accelaration on first gear on taking off.Like ,although i turn my throttle no gas runs into engine but sometimes and after progressive and high rpm using its more often. sound is very raucous at these times but when i throttle more very quickly engine goes normal.
3. After some progressive drive in high RPM like 20 min, when bike is on the idle i get some noise from the engine like hitting a big stone to another very scary sound to me

but in the High RPM i cannot notice any different noise or power loss but in low rpm and in the idle engine has no stablitiy and no good sound and no good performance

i will do something in this month
1. i will check cyclinder head
2. i will clean up carb

but third problem is very scary one because although sound is not loud as normally heard, very powerful not like a little piece of metal parts like a big rock hit the wall but no vibration more in the engine while this happening

Thanks for all sorry about bad english

[The Buddha]

<snip>
P.S. You English is fine, by the way. You should see the "English" of some of the wizards here on the board who are from the United States.

<snip>

Hey - I resemble that remark ...
Cool.
Buddha.

[bladebj]

Hi Armagan,
Welcome to our GS500 world.
I met a man from Istanbul several years ago and he sold me some model toy taxicabs of old black and yellow Istanbul Ford taxis. Very cool.

Thanks yeah i will be here forerever

i remenber this cabs for cars my favourite is FORD for Motorbikes GS500e
i hope some of you come to Turkey we ride together

About your bike, I have several questions:
How many miles on the bike?

40.000KM

If you unscrew the oil dipstick, what does the oil look like? Smell like? Any white creamy stuff in the oil (that would be water)? Does it smell burned? It it translucent or opaque in color?

i change my oil about 250km ago. two days after my replacement its turn to black again but on the light it looks light very very dark a little gold color

Have you ever checked the valve adjustment on the engine?

no not yet but i will check the shims and oil tunnel

The noises you describe are not sounding good, though one noise that is common on the GS500 is camshaft end play -- where the cam moves sideways in its mountings and makes a "banging noise." But that is in the top of the engine and is very easy to find.

yea some noise coming from about the head like rapidly working clock but i know it isnt a problem i heard this sound when i watch some gs500 videos

Is the noise only when the engine is COLD?
And it goes away when it warms up?

on the contrary this hitting rock sound comes when idle after engine working 20 or 30 min in high rpm drive (not always in high rpm but progressive drive) 

That could be valve adjustment -- you could have very loose valve lash.
Or it could be piston slap, where the cylinder bores are worn due to poor oil maintenance.

i hope the problem is not the piston or the cylinder problem beacause is hard to find here and very expensive
and i always check my oil level when i start to ride but  even i changed it after one or two drive its color turn to dark gold color.

It also sounds like that bird squeal you mentioned could be an air intake leak. Maybe one of your black rubber carburetor boots is cracked or loose and is leaking air? That could cause engine damage due to running excessively lean, which would describe some of the other problems you are having with the bike.
There also could be a vacuum leak from a  vacuum hose.

yeah i think so because it comes first start and when i give throttle very very slowly and touch to carb, as the sound come, carb move on the z axis so little so maybe its beacuse of backfire of cold engine so the leak from carb pistons or a thing make this sound   

Your running and idle problems are likely carbs related, probably from dirt and sludge in the jets and tiny fuel passages that need to be cleaned.

certainly, because ex owners of bike do not give atention to this baby so i think neither carb cleaning nor any checking done before

Your noises when riding can also be related to very loose chain adjustment -- there could be chain slippage around the engine-mounted countershaft sprocket that you are haring below you. If the adjustment is very loose, it could be very noisy and make "banging" noises you describe.

ok
as i said till today none did some check or cleaning or repairing adjustment to this bike but i will because i love i worship gs500

There are ways to check all of this, but let's start with more detailed symptoms from you to help us figure it out.
It could be a lot of things.
Tell us more and let's see what we can figure out.
Please be very careful riding this until you fix it!
Best wishes and welcome again, my friend.
Yours,
Trwhouse

thanks very much for your attention i am very happy now because i find this site and i dont feel alone thanks again very much...

P.S. You English is fine, by the way. You should see the "English" of some of the wizards here on the board who are from the United States.

i know english just as tell what i want to say but you are right because lots of time i do not understand anything although i am a good english reader of our school books (our university education language is english )

[fred]

I agree that your strange high pitched noise is probably a vacuum leak if it is coming from the carbs. I would also propose a possible second cause: a loose bolt. My headlight is held in place by bolts with lock washers and the lock washers vibrate to make a very loud high pitched sound right around 2000 RPM. If you have a loose fastener, you might get a similar noise. I only say this because the noise my headlight makes is very bird like and it drove me nuts for a few days before I figured out what it was. I finally found it by just touching all the bolts up front until I touched the loose one and the noise went away. Just a thought...

[bill14224]

Is he saying he has to rev the piss out of it to get it to run decent?  Dirty pilot jets?  Kids throwing rocks at his bike? 

[bladebj]

I agree that your strange high pitched noise is probably a vacuum leak if it is coming from the carbs. I would also propose a possible second cause: a loose bolt. My headlight is held in place by bolts with lock washers and the lock washers vibrate to make a very loud high pitched sound right around 2000 RPM. If you have a loose fastener, you might get a similar noise. I only say this because the noise my headlight makes is very bird like and it drove me nuts for a few days before I figured out what it was. I finally found it by just touching all the bolts up front until I touched the loose one and the noise went away. Just a thought...

yea maybe but there are many missed bolts and screws on bike also i will check them all and get new ones or replace them thanks your interest 

[wladziu]

I believe he's saying:

The engine is noisy while the bike is warming up.  Very short high-pitch sounds and what he describes as piston noise (maybe like a ticking clock).  I'm not sure what he means that they're "locked" sometimes, but it goes away once it's warmed up. 

Once it's warm, it seems to run fine. 

But, when he pulls out in first, he has to "rev the piss out of it".  Otherwise, there's no power and a lot of engine noise.  He doesn't it describe the noise very well, maybe more of the same idling noise or maybe loud banging. 

If he drives around at high RPM for a while and then returns to idle, the engine makes a loud banging sound and runs like dung.  That's mainly what he's upset about. 



He believes the carb boots may be leaking and causing the high-pitch noise (while waiting for the bike to warm up).  If he slowly throttles up to the point where the noise occurs, he can feel the carbs move up or down. 
He hasn't checked the valves yet, and the previous owners neglected the bike's maintenance. 
He's a college student on a low budget, so it's probably gonna take him a while to get around to everything or afford parts. 

[bladebj]

I believe he's saying:

The engine is noisy while the bike is warming up.  Very short high-pitch sounds and what he describes as piston noise (maybe like a ticking clock).  I'm not sure what he means that they're "locked" sometimes, but it goes away once it's warmed up. 

Once it's warm, it seems to run fine. 

But, when he pulls out in first, he has to "rev the piss out of it".  Otherwise, there's no power and a lot of engine noise.  He doesn't it describe the noise very well, maybe more of the same idling noise or maybe loud banging. 

If he drives around at high RPM for a while and then returns to idle, the engine makes a loud banging sound and runs like dung.  That's mainly what he's upset about. 



He believes the carb boots may be leaking and causing the high-pitch noise (while waiting for the bike to warm up).  If he slowly throttles up to the point where the noise occurs, he can feel the carbs move up or down. 
He hasn't checked the valves yet, and the previous owners neglected the bike's maintenance. 
He's a college student on a low budget, so it's probably gonna take him a while to get around to everything or afford parts. 

thanks yeah general problems are these. "the engine makes a loud banging sound and runs like dung" i try to explain the noise but my english do not give me a chance after high RPM drive on the idle i get some noise from deep of my engine like "hitting a big rock to another rock" the sound is exactly like that and it is no rythmic unstable sometimes one per second sometimes there is sound in 1-2 minute so sometimes not stop hmm the sound is not short more then a clock ticking a bit long and as i said not stable nor rythmic and idle sound is sometimes good sometimes bad not stable low rpm - normal rpm - low rpm- normal rpm - low rpm- normal rpm - low rpm - normal rpm like that

"the previous owners neglected the bike's maintenance. "  not only maintance but also engine

thanks all guys answering me

[bill14224]

Spray your choke cable on both ends with penetrating oil like WD-40.  That will make sure your choke is not getting stuck.  Make sure your drive chain is not too tight.  If it is too tight, or stretched in one spot more than the rest, it will make a K-K-K sound at times, especially when slowing down.  If you think you have an air leak between the carburetors and the engine, wrap some duct tape around the rubber tubes and see if it helps.  Rock on rock sound cannot be good, EVER!  That sounds to me like an engine bearing that is about to fail.  That would be followed by a SCREEEE, followed by silence!

[bladebj]

Spray your choke cable on both ends with penetrating oil like WD-40.  That will make sure your choke is not getting stuck.  Make sure your drive chain is not too tight.  If it is too tight, or stretched in one spot more than the rest, it will make a K-K-K sound at times, especially when slowing down.  If you think you have an air leak between the carburetors and the engine, wrap some duct tape around the rubber tubes and see if it helps.  Rock on rock sound cannot be good, EVER!  That sounds to me like an engine bearing that is about to fail.  That would be followed by a SCREEEE, followed by silence!

yea maybe camshaft bearings because this rock on rock sound comes only idle or camshaft chain maybe i think there is no adjustment since 6 years

[bill14224]

camshaft chain is self-adjusting, so no worry there.  It should take 5000 km for your oil to get dirty.  If it's getting dirty fast, there must be a lot of dirt in the engine from past neglect which would mean it probably needs to be rebuilt.  Then again, when I was a kid my friend bought an old Honda 50cc mini bike and it had GRAVEL in the crankcase.  Despite this, the engine lasted about 3 more years until it caught fire when the carb started leaking onto the hot engine when we were both riding on it together!

Here is an online service manual to help you:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/7178815/Suzuki-GS500-Full-Service-Manual

[bladebj]

camshaft chain is self-adjusting, so no worry there.  It should take 5000 km for your oil to get dirty.  If it's getting dirty fast, there must be a lot of dirt in the engine from past neglect which would mean it probably needs to be rebuilt.  Then again, when I was a kid my friend bought an old Honda 50cc mini bike and it had GRAVEL in the crankcase.  Despite this, the engine lasted about 3 more years until it caught fire when the carb started leaking onto the hot engine when we were both riding on it together!

Here is an online service manual to help you:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/7178815/Suzuki-GS500-Full-Service-Manual

many thanks
i will check them soon
i will put some photos

[bladebj]

yeah i m here again

Last two days  i checked i noticed something

1. i check my valves and shims

R(ight)-IN(take) has 0.04mm space,
R-EX has 0.13mm space.
L-IN has 0.04mm,
L-EX has 0.10mm space,
0.03mm , 0.08mm clearence right?

after i cleaned my carb here comes some problem

i cleaned my carb (very dirty ) and i checked the other things and put them together i
started my engine and wow rpm went to sun 6-7k. when i throttled , engine did not come to idle , stay where i throttle.
i thought the carb piston was stuck i removed air box and looked my carb pistons there was normal and
i checked my choke there is no problem i checked all cable there is no problem. first start it running normal on the idle but when i throttle, it acts like choke cable pulled and do not return to idle it stay where i throttle

as i told when i removed my air box because of carb take air easily this symptom decrease. i think this is due to rich mixture but why this mixture is rich
no problem with vacuum system
no problem with cables
no problem with carb pistons
no problem with idle screw

and i thought after my cleaning the mixture became rich and i set my mixture screw there is no difference

by the way,

i realized my bird sound coming from carb is because of the evacuation pipe of the vacuum while right one has covered by rubber left one do not have rubber, it covered by a thing that ex owner do. so it act like whistle. this pipes give air often.

why these pipes are closed

here comes another problem

when i removed my air box to check my carb pistons i recognized the left carb spray white smoke from the air holes(channels). carb does it very often. i think its because of my exh. shims and backfiring but only left one


another problem the right side of my engine (rotor side) give sound like ("ticket" "ticket" "ticket" very often)

i am really confused i really need help

[bladebj]

any ideas?

[lawman]

Wow... It would be nice if I could see all this on a video or something and, nothing personal, your English was a little clearer - not that yours is bad, but I'm not sure I get all your symptoms here.

1. i check my valves and shims

R(ight)-IN(take) has 0.04mm space,
R-EX has 0.13mm space.
L-IN has 0.04mm,
L-EX has 0.10mm space,

0.03mm , 0.08mm clearence right?

yes

did you measure with the shim tool on or something?  That's a lot of lot of space...

i cleaned my carb (very dirty ) and i checked the other things and put them together i
started my engine and wow rpm went to sun 6-7k. when i throttled , engine did not come to idle , stay where i throttle.
i thought the carb piston was stuck i removed air box and looked my carb pistons there was normal and
i checked my choke there is no problem i checked all cable there is no problem. first start it running normal on the idle but when i throttle, it acts like choke cable pulled and do not return to idle it stay where i throttle

as i told when i removed my air box because of carb take air easily this symptom decrease. i think this is due to rich mixture but why this mixture is rich
no problem with vacuum system
no problem with cables
no problem with carb pistons
no problem with idle screw

and i thought after my cleaning the mixture became rich and i set my mixture screw there is no difference

by the way,

i realized my bird sound coming from carb is because of the evacuation pipe of the vacuum while right one has covered by rubber left one do not have rubber, it covered by a thing that ex owner do. so it act like whistle. but why my carb evacuate often the air from this pipes and way this pipes are closed

If you're hearing a whistle from the carb, by definition you have a vacuum problem.  The high idle is symptomatic of a vacuum problem.  Have you checked very, very carefully to be sure you have the carbs in the boots from the airbox solidly, that you have an o-ring between the intake boots and the engine, and that this is all sealed?

What jets are in?

when i removed my air box to check my carb pistons i recognized the left carb spray white smoke from the air holes(channels). carb does it very often. i think its because of my exh. shims and backfiring but only left one

another problem the right side of my engine (rotor side) give sound like ("ticket" "ticket" "ticket" very often)

Have you taken the cover off to see if there is anything in there?

[bladebj]

i measue it by shim tool and only ex shims have space others are normal ex shim cause the backfiring? o is it a big problem or only loud.

-----------------------------
If you're hearing a whistle from the carb, by definition you have a vacuum problem.  The high idle is symptomatic of a vacuum problem.  Have you checked very, very carefully to be sure you have the carbs in the boots from the airbox solidly, that you have an o-ring between the intake boots and the engine, and that this is all sealed?

What jets are in?
-------------------------------------

not high idle when it starts idle is normal but when i throttle rpm rise and dont go dowm stay where i throttle

stock jet is on it

whistle beacuse of leaking cover of little evacuation pipe on the carb just near the vacuum cover

and why this pipe flow air why evacuate the air?

as i said why tihs pipes are closed by a rubber oh my godness.

i loose a very very smal oring i couldn't find where i must put it  oh my god this can be beacuse of it

and why the only left carb spray white gray smoke from air channel   it looks like a problem engine pistons dont take the air - fuel mixture  pushes it back

i recheck everything about carb pistonvacuums but there is no problem but the oring can made a problem exactly where it must be put

oring is really small

[lawman]

i measue it by shim tool and only ex shims have space others are normal ex shim cause the backfiring? o is it a big problem or only loud.
[moved from below]
and why the only left carb spray white gray smoke from air channel   it looks like a problem engine pistons dont take the air - fuel mixture  pushes it back

Big problem.  Means your valves are going to be off, and eventually that will be the end of things.  I just can't grasp how it got to be THAT far off.

whistle beacuse of leaking cover of little evacuation pipe on the carb just near the vacuum cover

and why this pipe flow air why evacuate the air?

as i said why tihs pipes are closed by a rubber oh my godness.

i loose a very very smal oring i couldn't find where i must put it  oh my god this can be beacuse of it

Bingo - that rubber o ring is the answer.  Having leftover parts when working on a vehicle is a baaaad thing... 

Here is a link to a Fiche for your carbs  http://www.bikebandit.com/suzuki-motorcycle-gs500ew-1998-carburetor/o/m6058sch246854

The carbs operate with a vacuum, hence the diaphragms.  I don't know if yours are the same as mine (04) but there should be one side where a rubber cap blocks the vent and a hose should go from the other to somewhere else, I think  -#42 on the fiche(?).

[bladebj]

Big problem.  Means your valves are going to be off, and eventually that will be the end of things.  I just can't grasp how it got to be THAT far off.

i will replace these ex shims but not have priority because here Turkey there is no service i must buy it from abroad so it will take a long time to delivered my adress.

whistle beacuse of leaking cover of little evacuation pipe on the carb just near the vacuum cover

and why this pipe flow air why evacuate the air?

as i said why tihs pipes are closed by a rubber oh my godness.

my gs 500 97" so i guess 04 carb on it i am still do not understand my these pipes (top of carb) on the carb is closed

i loose a very very smal oring i couldn't find where i must put it  oh my god this can be beacuse of it

Bingo - that rubber o ring is the answer.  Having leftover parts when working on a vehicle is a baaaad thing... 

Here is a link to a Fiche for your carbs  http://www.bikebandit.com/suzuki-motorcycle-gs500ew-1998-carburetor/o/m6058sch246854

The carbs operate with a vacuum, hence the diaphragms.  I don't know if yours are the same as mine (04) but there should be one side where a rubber cap blocks the vent and a hose should go from the other to somewhere else, I think  -#42 on the fiche(?).

hmm all of one can be i will check them soon
an oring can cause such a problem and how it cause the problem

i guess unbalanced richmixture from main jet because only throttle it is a problem idle there is everything normal.

Yea i got diaphrams so there is no problem with them no leak and carb pistons work good there is no stuck

thanks man many many thanks it is hard to understand my english

[werase643]

go here
http://www.bikebandit.com/suzuki-motorcycle-gs500ew-1998/o/m6058
go to the carburetor diagram

you need to have piece # 14
yes, there are 2 different items listed in the diagram
one is a Vacuum cap on top of Piece #6(a vac block off used on many autos)
and the other one is a very small o-ring
you need both items on both carbs
the slides (#7: VALVE, PISTON) need a vacuum to overcome the spring pressure holding them down

I hope this helps