Ok racers...

[Blueknyt]

i can corner pretty good for guy never have been on a track, but its diffrent on the track then on street.  Now, how did you guys get comfortable sliding the tires? this is such an un-natural thing for me that if i do feel somthing giving way i back off

im not cornering hard enough to need much countersteering atleast doesnt feel like i am, but i dont know how much of that is the way the bike is setup from prev owner as it was a track bike. From what i have seen, most of the good roadracers prev ran dirt tracks inwhich case sliding is Mostly whats happening when not in air or toping humps.

any other ideas or thoughts on how to conqor this hurdle?

[bob]

Ok, here goes - please don't anybody be offended...

[soapbox]
Ride well within your limits on the street.  If you are sliding anything on the street, you are probably going way too fast.  A big part of the reason racers are able to slide a bike on the track is because they have gone around the track dozens, maybe hundreds, of times & they know each turn intimately.  When on the street it's not good enough if you've been through a turn twice a day every day for the last two years on your way to work or whatever - on the street conditions change from day to day & hour to hour.  Just cuz you went rockin' through that turn yesterday doesn't mean some knothead cager didn't spill a buncha sand or antifreeze or kangaroo dung in that corner today.  The racetrack is inspected before racing commences & there are turn workers watching all around & there ain't no knothead cagers.  There's plenty of threads on this site in which folks tell how they were toodling along calmly & suddenly fell in a turn cuz of some cage's oil or somethin'.  Don't make your margin for error even tighter by riding over the limit.
[/soapbox]

Ok, whew, ok, pant, pant, I'm Ok now.  Just lemme catch my breath...    

If ya wanna learn how to slide, get an MX bike & go play in the dirt.  If a real MXer is too expensive (or too scary!) go get an old XR100 & go play.  Use your safety gear & go out & blast around on the dirt & you'll be slidin' in no time (whether you want to or not!).  The best way to learn to slide & to control a slide is to put yourself in a low traction environment & be forced to deal with slides at low speeds.  Ice racing is another possibility if you're in the right latitude (or wrong latitude, depending on how you look at it...).  Ice racing requires more preparation than the XR thing & is also season dependent, but it'll get ya slidin'     The best environment is gonna be a smooth, low traction surface with a light bike that has soft power delivery.  XR's are perfect.

As far as learning how to slide with nothing but a city street & a GS, well, you're prolly gonna get to know the folks at Bike Bandit pretty good.  Maybe you could just start a spares kit - handlebars, levers, turn signals - that kinda thing.  Prolly oughta go introduce yourself to the folks at the emergency room, too, so they'll know you when you come in.  If you can have friends anywhere, the emergancy room's gotta be the place!   :lol:

BTW, if you do find yourself in a slide, the right thing to do is to ride through it, just like a car.  If the back end steps out & you chop the throttle you'll quite possibly high-side.  If you're sliding the front, you're probably loading the front too much already & chopping the throttle will just load it more & you'll tuck the front. If you feel you have to take some sorta action, usually a slight increase in throttle will help in the most situations - but not all.  If the back is stepping out because you're hard on the gas already, obviously more throttle will just make it worse.

Ya know what?  Forget everything I've just said - just go do a track day.  It's worse than heroin.  One time & you'll be hooked for life.  Nice part is, it's reasonably safe & if you do screw up & it's generally far less expensive than the same screw-up on the street.

OK, now I'm done.  I have to go lay down for a bit...

[V8Pinto]

im not cornering hard enough to need much countersteering atleast doesnt feel like i am

You are, you just don't know it.  Unless you're on a salt flats racer that goes about 300mph (I have heard on one bike countersteering went away at 200mph and came back at around 300mph), the countersteering effect doesn't ever "go away" or change to anything else.  You are countersteering - it just isn't readily apparent.

Your wheels are gyros, a gyro moves at a right angle to an applied force.  The gyro is still there as long as you are moving.  Pushing on the bars makes the gyros move at a right angle to your push.

It's physics, it is immutable (at least in this sphere of existence).

[V8Pinto]

If you wanna learn how to slide go get in the dirt first.  Dirt is very much more forgiving than asphalt+traffic.  You can even take the GS in the dirt or grass as long as it's smooth.  You'll be surprised at the level of control required even to ride in a straight line (especially on grass).  Master a rolling burnout in the grass on the GS and you'll be light years ahead in skill.

[Pam G]

I really don't think racers on small roadrace bikes are doing much sliding.  That happens more often on the larger displacement bikes with more hp.

Now, racing motards (mini or big bike size) is something else alltogether.

[KevinC]

Buy good tires, and forget the sliding! I've been riding on the track for 3 years, and have won a few times, and I can count on one hand the times I've slid a tire. None of them resulted in faster lap times!

You've been watching the American riders on powerful bikes too much. The Europeans slide the rear much less, even on MotoGP bikes. At the club level, it will be pretty rare to find anyone sliding much, and then definitely not on a bike with the hp of a GS.

Everytime you turn a motorcycle, you countersteer to turn in and out of the corner. It's not the same as countersteering while sliding the rear. And the gyroscopic precession is a second order effect, at least below 200 mph. The countersteering works basically by starting the roll and steering the contact patch out from under the CG.

[dgyver]

One thing that really hasn't been mentioned is that race tires are different than street tires. The compounds used in race tires are softer and gooier. If a race tire slides it maintains traction while a street tire slides then traction may be lost. Tires have come a long way though. I have had the rear step out on the street several times, luckly I didn't have too much throttle. It happened once recently at the track while I was at lean and felt the rear starting to slide out when I got on the gas too soon exiting a turn. Backed off the throttle a little and the tire stuck. The life of a race compound  tire is very short compared to a street tire, like hundreds of miles compared to thousands of miles. Also, race tires can only handle a small number of heat cycles before they become hard and inefficient. Street tires are designed to handle vitually unlimited heat cycles. Most of the tires seen at the races on TV are used up in just one race, which is only about 50 miles! Small displacement bikes should never "need" to slide the tires. They can carry a much higher cornering speed and actually corner faster than big cc bikes, as they can maintain a lower center of gravity.

[KevinC]

One of the riders at our local track has 4 years (!) of racing on a set of tires, and he still kicks everyone's ass. A lot of racers only do one weekend on a set. Pick your poison.

Small bikes don't go around corners faster because of a low CG. 125cc GP bikes have the highest cornering speeds because of their lightweight (less than 200 lbs!) - they don't load up the tires as much for a given G load,plus they are easier to flick around. With high power bikes, the quickets way around a track isen't high cornering speeds - slow down, get the bike turned, get it upright as quickly as possible and roll on the power. It is also much harder to blend the power in while leaned over when there is 100 or 200 hp, so most riders are reluctant to do so.

Higher CG actually reduces the lean angle a bike need for a given radius and speed. MotoGP bikes are certainly not designed for a low CG, although it hurts them in accleration and braking.

[Blueknyt]

guys behind me say im smooth, alittle un even in the line i take at times but smooth for most part, i have gone faster through the corners then they and they rip me once straight up again. and often i can enter the corner faster and wider then most of them, but i seem to apex to early, then again, these are 270 degree banked turns ( cloverleaf like) how who here has riden a 650 Hawk GT on the track? ive ridden it but not hard as it wasnt my bike and couldnt afford to repair should i tank it. are they set up better for cornering then the GS?  ive tryed following my buddy on his with my GS and i can not keep up in corners. he freaked me alittle passing me on outside then slicing me, when he did, he stuck out his elbow and cleaned off my front fender (yes on purpose) of coarse he he ribs me about not being able to ride, but i know i cant be doing all that bad if im passing others,  fact he and i passed 3 other riders on same turn, he on outside and me on inside. was kidna freaky and SO FRIGGIN neat at same time.   still, i know i could do better. ive got everything dialed in pretty well for my weight and skill, front doesnt pogo and back doesnt chatter under hard braking. everything feels smooth when in transition from upright to lean and back. something tells me i got the machine part right.   yaeh, maybe i need to roll pennies and do trackday havent heard of Miami/Homestead speedway haveing trackdays, Moroso in west palm has races every now and then, but never heard of track days there either. sebring is alittle far north for me. sigh!!

[KevinC]

I've ridden a Hawk, and race against a couple regularly. They handle well, but the GS is at leats as good in the corners. With my GSXR 750 front end and Ohlins shock, I think my GS is better in the corners than a Racetech and fancy shocked Hawk. He used to eat me down the straights, but we had about equal power this season, and I was turning better lap times. He's a good rider too, won a class last season.

Cornering, especially for us mortals is 50% mental, 25% skill, and 25% bike.