For all the anti gunners out there.

[bettingpython]

http://medical-technologists.org/articles/gunfreemyth.pdf

The article above is an excellent study done contrasting schools where firearms can be caarried by licensed individuals to schools where firearms carry is not permitted. It would seem to suggest as I have strongly believed for many years that gun control is a failure that by disarming individuals who are legal to carry publicly in other places is equivalent to placing a giant bullseye on public schools.

[wladziu]

Yeah, I used that article in my stupid Speech class a while back.  It really shuts them up. 
Nowadays, they're big on "campus lockdown", though. 
"Oh no!  An armed assailant raping girls walking to their cars!  Better institute the  mighty campus lockdown!"

Still... being a war vet, I'm kinda afraid of myself with a handgun.  Even had to sell my shotgun and quit my weekends at the skeet range. 
Escalation is so.. easy. 
I just want my school to allow tasers. 

[lawman]

I'm not against guns, I just think no one but a soldier or law enforcement officer should be allowed to have a concealable one (handgun), or carry one in public.  Why should soldiers and cops have to wonder whether a handgun is legal or not? If they're all illegal, then anyone who has one is a criminal.

That study, if you look at the first footnote, is hardly objective.  It was done by "David Kopel" the "Research Director of the Independence Institute."  Hmmm... doesn't sound unbiased to me...  He was "an Assistant Attorney General for the [conservative] State of Colorado," and the author of "Gun Control and Gun Rights."  He also repeatedly quotes his own articles and books, which most researchers consider gauche at best.  He goes so far as to use Antonin Scalia as an example.  You have to be kidding me...  That's like quoting a priest on the "truth" of the bible.  Just to point this out objectively - you're a progun guy, reading an article by a progun guy, who quotes HIMSELF, and another progun guy.  That equates to a circle jerk as far as I'm concerned.  Who's got the bread right now?

I prefer to point out that the per capita murder rate in some cities in Canada is drastically lower than than in US towns less than 30 miles away.  The difference - gun control.  That's pretty objective.

[spc]

Heard of Switzerland?  One of the lowest crime rates in the WORLD and they f%$king issue every household a weapon


Perhaps you can't read (don't worry illiterate morons can do great things, we have one as President), but the forefathers thought so much of the right to carry that it's not granted by the constitution.  The right to carry in the US is an axiom.  Nothing states we have that right, it's accepted as a self-evident right in itself.  The second amendment merely protects us from idiots like Holder by stating that the government doesn't have the right to infringe upon this SELF EVIDENT right.

You like Canada so much, f%$king move there.

[lawman]

Heard of Switzerland?  One of the lowest crime rates in the WORLD and they f%$king issue every household a weapon

A rifle, not a handgun.  I have no problems with rifles.  Neither did the founding fathers, as handguns back then were big, bulky, one shot, inaccurate jobs.

Perhaps you can't read (don't worry illiterate morons can do great things, we have one as President), but the forefathers thought so much of the right to carry that it's not granted by the constitution.  The right to carry in the US is an axiom.  Nothing states we have that right, it's accepted as a self-evident right in itself.  The second amendment merely protects us from idiots like Holder by stating that the government doesn't have the right to infringe upon this SELF EVIDENT right.

I carry a copy of the Constitution in my car door, bub.  I have two on the desk in front of me.  You're just incorrect... or can't read.

You like Canada so much, f%$king move there.

You like Switzerland so much? Bye...

[bettingpython]

 

The study is the affects of banning guns from school campuses. It's also as unbiased as your likely to find because the guy isn't pushing his agenda. Seriously take the time to read the article, people call republicans knee jerk reactionarys this is the kind of drivel I should have expected

I live in a state where I am legally licensed to carry a firearm. I am also in public education. Your whole premise of law enforcement wondering if the person with a gun is a criminal is not is a moot point. There is required notification to law enforcement anytime contact in an official cpacity is made, it eastablishs that I have gun on my person, and that I have a permit. At which point as soon as an officer see's the permit they relax and ratchet down a step. They're dealing with someone who has passed a local state and national criminal name and fimgerprint background check, they are dealing with a law abiding citizen that does not have a criminal history. Theres no wondering about it. If it's spotted and you don't declare it here you're in a shaZam! pot of trouble.

I should have known the left couldn't stay on topic and would let their personal feelings intrude on a rational subject so carry on f%$king up a potntially good discussion lets tard this f%$king thread and you sheeple can continue to wander around with your heads inserted into your craniums.

[bombadillo]

62 pages!!!   Cliff notes.  I'm pro gun 100% of the time but good god thats a lot to read.

[Juan1]

Yep, Switzerland is one of the most crime free nations in the world: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri_percap-crime-total-crimes-per-capita

It is right behind several countries that outlaw guns (see Ireland).

I know everyone here wants a blanket rule, like the legality of handgun ownership is always good, or gun ownership is always bad.  Unfortunately, the world isn't that simple.  Different regions, different population densities, and different criminal patterns mean that different gun ownership laws work in different places.  What works in rural Kentucky may not work in Compton.  

I'm sorry gun and anti-gun hardliners, the world isn't as simple as you'd like it to be.

[bettingpython]

Crime statistics are often better indicators of prevalence of law enforcement and willingness to report crime, than actual prevalence of crime.

There is no way that mexico has a crime rate as low as 12 per 1000.

[bettingpython]

62 pages!!!   Cliff notes.  I'm pro gun 100% of the time but good god thats a lot to read.

Theres part of the problem, pop culture wants single page summaries, blanket statements and buzzword driven policy. Instead of deep thoughtful detailed analysis.
Not picking on you Bombadillo just using your post to highlight an example.

Anyone ever read a book called the bell curve, pretty controversial and some even said racist if you didn't take the time to read and understand the whole book the pop culture inference that was drawn from the book was that skin color made a difference in intellect, which was completely disengenious because the standard deviation within the data sets could explain that shift in the curve the importnat point that everyone missed that was upring education and oppurtunities affected intellect.

[Jughead]

Heard of Switzerland?  One of the lowest crime rates in the WORLD and they f%$king issue every household a weapon

A rifle, not a handgun.  I have no problems with rifles.  Neither did the founding fathers, as handguns back then were big, bulky, one shot, inaccurate jobs.

Duh! So were the Rifles AKA Muskets,Flintlocks,Catapults,Cannons,Sling Shots.ETC,ETC, I don't think they had a Problem with Dueling back then.I'm Sure they would have been Pissed if they tried to have took their Pistols so they couldn't duel.

[Juan1]

Crime statistics are often better indicators of prevalence of law enforcement and willingness to report crime, than actual prevalence of crime.

There is no way that mexico has a crime rate as low as 12 per 1000.

Yep.  That is why I mentioned another european city.

As a side note, I'm missing a great beach volleyball tournament in Mexico this year because of the murders going on down there. 

[seamax]

Heard of Switzerland?  One of the lowest crime rates in the WORLD and they f%$king issue every household a weapon


Perhaps you can't read (don't worry illiterate morons can do great things, we have one as President), but the forefathers thought so much of the right to carry that it's not granted by the constitution.  The right to carry in the US is an axiom.  Nothing states we have that right, it's accepted as a self-evident right in itself.  The second amendment merely protects us from idiots like Holder by stating that the government doesn't have the right to infringe upon this SELF EVIDENT right.

You like Canada so much, f%$king move there.

It is an intersting article..I only got halfways thru it. The thread was becoming an interesting debate also
UNTIL outburst like these made me think that pro gun people are all short tempered trigger happy people. 

[joshr08]

i just people would start killing others with bows an arrows so people see that no matter what the weapon is if a person has the intent to harm others it doesnt matter what they use.  guns arent bad.  guns dont kill people.  people kill people.  what about a person the uses a peice of rope to strangle someone should we take all rope off the shelves?  should we pull all knives off the shelf because people slit someones neck?  Im not trying to start a fight just pointing out if someone wants to harm someone they will find a way to do it.

[yamahonkawazuki]

Indeed tehanti gun people think they are correct, so do some of the pro gun people. teh gentleman that said only cops and soldiers. okay lets go on that tangent for a bit. say your house is getting broke into. some would say give em what they want. theyll leave you alone. many times yes. but not ALL of the time. and police arent always there as soon as you call. so what do you do? i WONT draw my service weapon/sidearm, UNLESS i will shoot someone. i dont bluff. bluffing is for fools. anyhoo flame on 

[bettingpython]

Here's a couple of real life incidents. These involve people who refused to be a victiim so if your sensibilities are more french in nature and you feel you should throw up the white flag and give violent criminals what they want and hope they don't harm you then these might be offensive to your sensibilities.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_156_26/ai_82533205/

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_162_27/ai_96989868/?tag=content;col1

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_147_24/ai_62655364/?tag=rbxcra.2.a.11

[lawman]

Here's a couple of real life incidents. These involve people who refused to be a victiim so if your sensibilities are more french in nature and you feel you should throw up the white flag and give violent criminals what they want and hope they don't harm you then these might be offensive to your sensibilities.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_156_26/ai_82533205/

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_162_27/ai_96989868/?tag=content;col1

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_147_24/ai_62655364/?tag=rbxcra.2.a.11

That's called a case study.  Scientists consider case studies almost irrelevant.

[bettingpython]

UNTIL outburst like these made me think that pro gun people are all short tempered trigger happy people. 

Just Terry he's a bit passionate.

In each of the case studies I posted, yes lawman I know what they are and I diod not offer them as statistical eveidence either, the argument that if guns were outlawed there would never have been an icident could be used so playing devils advocate let's go wath the rolex dealer in LA.

Handguns are illegal in the entire world so or criminal doesn't have one right? Wrong our violent offenders are violent offenders are criminals they don't care abou tthe legallities of gun ownership but our shop owner does and as such winds up dead because he did not break the law. Suppose our "Law abiding" criminals attacked with ball bats or tire irons instead? How do you expect the average man to fare against multiple oponents? Again a strong case for personel ownership of firearms.

11 year old ices bad dude with knife... okay so the guy was their with the intention of stealing guns, so if guns were illegal he would not have made the attempt to rob the 45 year old grandmother. Wrong again, no one knows why he wanted the guns but most likely result would have been usage to commit a crime to get money for drugs or to sell for drugs. End result steal granny's valuables cut her throat and move on.

The last case study, big guy caps armed robber holding employees at gun point. again outlaw guns no problem if the bad guy is "law abiding"(I love that oxymoron a law abiding bad guy) then to control the siituatuion with a lesser weapon he needs to instill fear in a far more violent and fast manner, beating someones brains out with a bat iis the usual method of inspiring shock awe and fear to stun multitpel people into complying instead of overpowering the sole attacker.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. A gun is a tool like a screwdriver or a wrench. I can loosen parts on your vehicle to kill you with one of those tools too.

[lawman]

In each of the case studies I posted, yes lawman I know what they are and I diod not offer them as statistical eveidence either, the argument that if guns were outlawed there would never have been an icident could be used so playing devils advocate let's go wath the rolex dealer in LA.

You want me to post all the ones where the kid shoots himself with parent's gun, or cop shoots kid thinking he has a gun, or family member shoots family member not knowing who it was?  Shakespeare once said, using a lot more words, that any "fool in error" can find a passage to support his point.  I'm not impressed by any of the studies you've posted.  Case study or grossly biased right wing nutjob workup.  Doesn't impress me.

Handguns are illegal in the entire world so or criminal doesn't have one right? Wrong our violent offenders are violent offenders are criminals they don't care abou tthe legallities of gun ownership but our shop owner does and as such winds up dead because he did not break the law. Suppose our "Law abiding" criminals attacked with ball bats or tire irons instead? How do you expect the average man to fare against multiple oponents? Again a strong case for personel ownership of firearms.
11 year old ices bad dude with knife... okay so the guy was their with the intention of stealing guns, so if guns were illegal he would not have made the attempt to rob the 45 year old grandmother. Wrong again, no one knows why he wanted the guns but most likely result would have been usage to commit a crime to get money for drugs or to sell for drugs. End result steal granny's valuables cut her throat and move on.
The last case study, big guy caps armed robber holding employees at gun point. again outlaw guns no problem if the bad guy is "law abiding"(I love that oxymoron a law abiding bad guy) then to control the siituatuion with a lesser weapon he needs to instill fear in a far more violent and fast manner, beating someones brains out with a bat iis the usual method of inspiring shock awe and fear to stun multitpel people into complying instead of overpowering the sole attacker.

These are what's called a "strawman."  You just argued a point I didn't try to make, then knocked it down, attributing it to me. 

Handguns aren't illegal in the whole world.  If they were, it would be a safer world.  The shop owner can defend his shop with a shotgun - spread makes it easier to aim even.  Why does he need a handgun?  Last I checked, shotguns worked against bats and tire irons too...  Seems the point I didn't make isn't even a valid point. 

I don't even know what your second point is, so I clearly wasn't trying to make it.  Why can't granny use a shotgun?  Or a rifle?

Third point: Why can't bank security use a shotgun?  Or a rifle?

I don't dislike guns, I dislike handguns.  Any more strawmen you want to use to show how great the arguments I'm not making aren't?  How about aliens? Aliens can't be hurt by shotguns or rifles.  We must have handguns to fend off the aliens!!!  MORE HANDGUNS!!!

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. A gun is a tool like a screwdriver or a wrench. I can loosen parts on your vehicle to kill you with one of those tools too.

If guns are just tools, why do you need them?  Why are you spending your entire afternoon arguing points I'm not making to try to show everyone how smart you are to support handguns?  I'll trade you an entire craftsman screwdriver set for each of your handguns if they're the same thing.  You want handguns because they are portable, lethal, and cheap.  That's the same reason a criminal wants them.  If I take away just the portable aspect, it becomes a lot harder to use a gun nefariously.

[spc]

Cheap, you've apparently never heard of H&K.