Need some unbiased opinions...

[makenzie71]

Okay, now the engine in my car is healthy and going strong.  Actually pulls 175psi cold compression across all six cylinders.  However, the supporting nonsense is...aging...and BMW saw fit to use parts that, despite they work identical to their $35 counterparts, requires things like $145 O2 sensors (and it needs FOUR of them).  I'm at 220,000 miles and 225,000 I'm going to be due for some MAJOR updates.  O2 sensors, cam sensors, water pump, headgasket, tranny service, shift bushings, etc, etc, etc...all going to run about $1300...and doesn't include things that I would LIKE to do...like boost.  So I'm going to swap in a different engine...one I like...and I'm torn between two loves.

My goal is a reliable 350whp.  It doesn't have to be done at once, it's just what I want my end result to be.  I'd also like to do something a little more unique than the typical S52/LSx swaps.

1jz-GTE, Swap cost ~ $2500
This is a twin turbo straight six.  With the mods needed just to fit it in my E36 chassis it'll be putting down 300~325whp from the get go.  It's a proven motor that's capable of lasting forever if treated right.  However, this motor was NEVER sold in the US and, while some parts are interchangeable between it and the 2jz-GTE (MKIV Supra), a lot of it has to be sourced from aftermarket vendors or overseas suppliers who know they're the only ones who have the parts.  It's a cool motor, but I'm afraid of being in roughly the same boat I'm in now with my BMW M52.  Modding, beyond the basic bolt ons, gets expensive very quickly.  This has also been done before...not a lot of times, but enough times that I know at least five people who have done it, and another half dozen who've done the 2jz.


13B-T, Swap cost ~ $1800
This is a single turbo Wankel Rotary engine found in 1987~1991 Mazda RX-7 TII's.  In that swap budget are the funds needed to put down between 250~275whp.  HUGE aftermarket available here in the states...that's actually still growing (now over three decades of 13B's in the states).  The engines don't last as long as piston engines, but removing, rebuilding, and reinstalling requires less than half the time/money.  Modding beyond the basic bolt ons isn't very expensive per upgrade, but it'll require more upgrades to accomplish...I'll be nearing the same budget as the 1jz to put down between 350~400whp.  To my knowledge this has NEVER been done (except in New Zealand but they don't count).

What say you guys?

[JStrube]

350RWH?

I'd do an LSx swap...  About $1500 for a complete engine & trans, add a supercharger for a bit more & you have tons of power...

[makenzie71]

You're not going to find a complete LSx/T56 for $1500 anywhere.  You can't even find an auto for that amount.  $5k + freight can get an Ls2 and T56...then you're looking at finding a full wiring harness and ECU or wiring up an aftermarket EMS.

And lets not forget that the of the second "paragraph" in my first post says pretty specifically "I'd also like to do something a little more unique than the typical S52/LSx swaps."  People put LSx's in EVERYTHING.

[gsagent005]

 bmw strives to get cars close as possible to a 50/50 weight ratio i'd say stay with a straight 6 personally. your m52 is it the 325 or 328? manual i assume from the shifter bushings?? in that case a trans service is a drain and fill with atf, only takes abt 2qts... is it the i.s. model with the limited slip... all that power will get you replacing one tire if you dont have/add that.
and REALLY for all the work you listed the car as needing $1300 is WAY CHEAP!!!  when you say "due for some major updates" what do you mean? are all o2 sensors bad??? cam sensors bad??? with 175psi in all cyl i would leave it alone and get another 100,000 miles out of it.

to me it sounds more like you just want a reason to mod the car like no one else has, which is a very viable option here. while not bimmers best looking car, stock that is. there seem to be many upgrades available for the e36.

i would think if driven sensibly the stock trans would hold up to the power your looking for and maybe you should try looking into Advanced Adapters, they had a bell housing swap for a Chevy 350 to my stock Toyota 4 cyl 4wd tranny, they also have claimed in the past that they can make any set up... for a price that is, but i haven't checked their web site in a while. tey are big in the off-road community but also do street swap stuff too.

ok anyway... whats wrong with the 2jz... oh wait you want to be diff. what about a straight 6 Nissan motor OR if it'll fit the v6 out of the 350z! that has a badass sound to it too, kinda raspy like the euro's, if you really want the rotary I'd be way cooler to get a two rotor engine, BUT you wouldn't have the torque like the other motors cause you would have to wind them up add a turbo and now there's 2 things to wind up. not sure what those engines cost though.

if its between the 2 choices you listed... definitely the 1jz, better weight choice i would think, that way the cars handling stays about the same, or as close as it could with a major change like this

anyway that my 2 cents... holy crap i kinda rattled on there it seems... well I'd say there is definitely 2 cents worth there!!!   

go for it and let me know what you decide, i'd also like pics if possible too. 

[makenzie71]

There's a variable I forgot to add:  if I do an engine transplant I'd be selling all my M52 goods...which should come up to around $2500.  Updating leaves me entirely out of pocket, whereas doing something cool breaks me even in end .

2jz is unique enough that I would consider it...but it's in the same price league as the LSx.  I thought about the RB26DETT but the engine/tranny combo is too long...which wouldn't be so much a concern except the there's no room for all the coolers up front.  Concerning myself with the weight balance, though, the M42 (E36 318i) had the best weight distribution because the engine was completely between the axle lines.  The M/S/50/52 cars are slightly nose heavy.  This thinking was what made me really start thinking about the 13B...the engine and tranny are both compact...smaller than the M42 and getrag.  Not only keeps the weight balance, but drops about 200lbs from the car all together.  Torque delivery does concern me with the 13B...and running a 2.93lsd (one of the few "i" varients to come with LSD) I'll be running both the 13B and 1jz through about 26% taller gears than they were intended to run.  On the other hand, though, I'd actually be able to hit full boost in first gear...

[gsagent005]

the idea of breaking even is great... BUT i hate to be a downer... it ALWAYS seems that something is wrong/different and the bills start rising when your too far to turn back.

not to sound contradictory either but losing 200 lbs from the motor/trans is not the same as the car as it sits in the front 1/2 of the car.

as for the 50/50 weight thing it is more pronounced in the newer cars, the e36 was BMW's "mistake" 3 series in my mind. more of a "crap we have to update the 3" and this is what we got.
kinda like the e38 to the e65, not real impressive, but the f01 alters the e65 concepts just enough to make it a good looking flagship once again.

back on topic... if the Nissan motor is too long the coolers could always be relocated with fans or if there is room the engine trans could be pushed backwards as close as possible to firewall and then have custom shift setup made, the coolers don't have to be up front per say, if you want to be really different then its gonna cost you

BTW-- is this a spare car or a commuter?

crap its 1am and i have to work tomorrow, later mak

oh hehe if the LSx fits in there why not try an s62, that would be sweet! but... you could buy your e36 back like 4 times over for just the motor price 

if you want something lighter than the stright 6 what about a turbo 4 cyl... toyota had some that were rear wheel drive, so did nissan, cant remember if they were factory turbo'd though... oh crap... what abt the porsche 944 turbo motor... nah that would get expensive... hehe doubt it would fit but a subaru flat 4 2.5l turbo out of an sti 

damit, going to bed now

[makenzie71]

I've done swaps before so I know what I'm getting into ahead of time (something a lot of people can't say).

The 13B weighs a little less than the M42...just a little.  If I wanted a 50/50 distribution, this would be the motor to go with of the two.  Toyota didn't have any really cool rear wheel drive 4's that have a strong aftermarket today...only Nissan pulled that off.  I considered an SR20 but they're more expensive than the 1jz and I know nothing about them.  The STi plant would be interesting...even if the mounts and plumbing would be nightmarish...but they're both front wheel biased.  Sticking a straight rear wheel tranny on them would be costly...probably cheaper to do the S62 (which has been done to death lol).  The 951 motor is still the heaviest I4 I've ever seen!  Then when it comes to long motors...there's nowhere to relocate the coolers to...my front mount would nearly have to be on the outside of my bumper...no room for side mounts.

I have my car and I have my bike...hoping to do a swap and get it sorted during my 6 remaining months of riding season.

[spc]

How bout the SC'd 4.0  inline 6 out of an early XJR??

[makenzie71]

Money...and it's huge lol.

[gsagent005]

guess the little rotary wins! huh?   stock up on rotor seals... lol

[makenzie71]

That's what I'm leaning most toward because I know more about it, it's cheaper, it's lighter, and it has a strong following here in the States.  I like the idea of the 1jz a lot but I'm really worried about being in the same boat with it that I am with my M52 (cost a lot to keep up).  Worse happens I can yank a 13B out of a car and have it torn down into parts in about an hour, and I can rebuild it with new Apex seals and such for under $500.  So I think it wins...but part of me still tugs to the 1jz.  I also have people offering me money to duplicate mounts to fit the 1jz in the E36 so there's $120/profit a pair for that.

With the new baby and bills here, though, I think money will be the deciding factor.  It'll be cheaper to swap the 13B.

[spc]

Money...and it's huge lol.

They are huge, but I see them go with the full kit of ancillaries under $1500 pretty often and with another 500-1000 you can pull the stock 370hp to nearly 500, hell a pulley and wastegate for $400 brings it near 450. It's bombproof too, I've heard of people running 2.5-3bar without major issues. You should be able to shoehorn one in, there's a guy who put one in a 944. 

What about the old jag v12?? That's smaller, cheaper and produces solid ponies wirhou any sort of forced induction.

Older Benz NA diesels can be had and tc'd pretty cheaply with very aggressive tuning. Hp would be short of what you want but the 400+lbs/ft would be fun and crazy unique

[makenzie71]

I'm avoiding "V" engines because I like being able to put my hands in the engine bay...has to be an inline or a rotary.  I'll look at the Jaguar engine but don't know anything about it.  There aren't any motor/tranny combos on eBay...and what IS there is expensive.

[gsagent005]

13B it and "B" done 

yeah i know that was bad! 

get going "B"fore that kid needs a college fund already! 

ok i'm done, i promise... maybe?

[ohgood]

That's what I'm leaning most toward because I know more about it, it's cheaper, it's lighter, and it has a strong following here in the States.  I like the idea of the 1jz a lot but I'm really worried about being in the same boat with it that I am with my M52 (cost a lot to keep up).  Worse happens I can yank a 13B out of a car and have it torn down into parts in about an hour, and I can rebuild it with new Apex seals and such for under $500.  So I think it wins...but part of me still tugs to the 1jz.  I also have people offering me money to duplicate mounts to fit the 1jz in the E36 so there's $120/profit a pair for that.

With the new baby and bills here, though, I think money will be the deciding factor.  It'll be cheaper to swap the 13B.

you have time for engine swaps, or even -thinking- about engine swaps with the new bambino ?

sorry, my wet blanket hasn't been used all week, had to toss it somewhere

[makenzie71]

New baby or no...I'm going to have to do some work to my car this summer.

[spc]

I'm avoiding "V" engines because I like being able to put my hands in the engine bay...has to be an inline or a rotary.  I'll look at the Jaguar engine but don't know anything about it.  There aren't any motor/tranny combos on eBay...and what IS there is expensive.

Ebay is the wrong place.  A 1996 XJR complete  (rear-ended) just went at the insurance auctions locally for 1100. (a RE'd Maserati QP went for 15k)  The straight six engine is OOOOOLLLLLLD school and proven.  The engine is damn near bullet-proof it's just all the little peripheral pieces that self-destruct and the wiring that goes apesh!t.

What about an old Suby 2 smoke engine?  That'd be fun.

[yamahonkawazuki]

You're not going to find a complete LSx/T56 for $1500 anywhere.  You can't even find an auto for that amount.  $5k + freight can get an Ls2 and T56...then you're looking at finding a full wiring harness and ECU or wiring up an aftermarket EMS.

And lets not forget that the of the second "paragraph" in my first post says pretty specifically "I'd also like to do something a little more unique than the typical S52/LSx swaps."  People put LSx's in EVERYTHING.

yeah i was trying to find one for my rx7 project as well, literally to get one, damn near twice the cost, if not more

[spc]

definitely not gonna give you the hp you want, but I heard there's a company doing a scaled down inline 4 hercules engine.  That would be cool as he!!.