Normandy Trip - U.S. memorial.

[bettingpython]

Great pictures.  Europeans have a MUCH different view of war than Americans.  They have had them on THEIR OWN soil all too recently, and as a result are a little more reticent about jumping into them.  We need some of that wisdom...

Thanks for the pics, Cal!

Reticent to the point of negotiating with or condoning the actions of extremists and terrorists through deliberate inaction?
Give me a break TG, you're a nice enough guy but today of all days is a reminder of what happens when through inaction a threat to humanity isn't removed.

Cal thanks for the pictures.

[Roadstergal]

Cal, thanks for the pictures.  Beautiful.  I'm a skeptic m'self and have never found that being one precludes being a decent and poetic person, as you show.

Give me a break TG, you're a nice enough guy but today of all days is a reminder of what happens when through inaction a threat to humanity isn't removed.

You're very right - it's too bad about all of the crap that happened when we were inactive about removing the Soviet threat to humanity in Afghanistan... er, oops, sorry, I meant when we were inactive about removing the Iranian threat to humanity in concert with Iraq... er, I mean, thank goodness we invaded Iraq, captured Osama, and won their hearts and minds.

[Cal Price]

Mary, as I'm sure you know your bible ref was 100% spot-on, I looked it up to try and put some context around it. It reminded me of something rather unusual that I spent half a day searching for in Madrid, as far as i know this is the world's only "public" statue of Satan , it supposedly depicts the moment of expulsion from heaven. I believe the title of the works translates fairly simply to "Fallen Angel"
I've always thought it a rather odd subject but there you go.

[trumpetguy]

Reticent to the point of negotiating with or condoning the actions of extremists and terrorists through deliberate inaction?
Give me a break TG, you're a nice enough guy but today of all days is a reminder of what happens when through inaction a threat to humanity isn't removed.

Cal thanks for the pictures.

If bin Laden had been known as such a pressing threat, Bush had eight months to take him out before 9/11.  I suppose you think Clinton should have.  Whatever -- hindsight is 20/20.  Cheney and Bush didn't take him out in seven years of trying AFTER 9/11.  The movement (al Qaeda) would have carried on either way.

I was talking about invading Iraq.  We NEVER should have been there and it will be years before we can leave for good.  We are mired in Afghanistan as well because we took our focus off what we should have done (take out bin Laden).  A cynical person might suggest that Rumsfeld called off the operation at Tora Bora because that would have brought closure to what had become a very profitable WAR ON TERROR®.

Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm, Iraq -- a series of pointless conflicts which should not have had American
involvement.  All happened in someone else's back yard, so we don't really have a stake in the destruction (other than loss of American lives).  We don't have the same outlook as the Europeans.  Maybe I'm the one who doesn't belong in the USA...

[Toogoofy317]

That is very interesting. Did you know in Georgia they have satanic 10 commandments!

i like these kinda things!

Mary

[yamahonkawazuki]

i find fault with ALL presidents, clinton and obama included, now can we not turn this into YET another war/anti war fight?, lets have some civility here.

[frankieG]

i can not go to those memorials...i start crying and break down before i even get close enough to read a headstone.  even the thought of going to one makes me uncomfortable. i just cannot do it.

[Cal Price]

I know exactly what you mean, I don't handle it terribly well but I feel that it is something that should be done. I stood at the Menin Gate early this year where they close the street and play the last post at eight EVERY night with tears on my cheeks.

http://www.greatwar.co.uk/events/menin-gate-last-post-ceremony.htm

I will be up there again in a few days. The WW1 battlefields and memorials are real gut wrenchers the shear vastness of them really gets to you.

On the visit picured above I mentioned to one of the other guys who is a big tough guy, nightclub bouncer, sorry door supervisor, that I did not handle it too well when he said he was welling up and in tears. He comes from a Jewish background and read the names out loud from every star of David we passed and there were a lot.

We usually put a small coloured stone or a poppy on one of the unknown just to say someone came, someone cared.

[jserio]

i'm trying to work up the courage to ask my grandfather about his service again. i was 12 last time i tried to talk to him about it. we didn't get to talk much at that time. from what he told me then, and what i've talked with my father about, he was at Normandy and fought his way to Bastonge. Not sure about much else at this point. I'll be calling him in a few days so maybe i'll have a chance to bring it up.

[Cal Price]

Talk to him now, if you loose the opportunity you will regret it in the future, his generation is slipping away fast.

My parents are both long gone, mum was a soldier on searchlight crews during the bombing and dad was in the Royal Navy. My maternal grandfather was in the army in both world wars, he was getting on in WW2 and stayed on home duties like garding prisoners etc, he was "in the trenches in WW1 and Afghanistan in 1919! (Strange how these things come around)my paternal grandfather was seriously injured by a gas attack in the Ypres salient in WW1 the poor sod did not die untill about four years after the war. He was the only one who was not around to talk to when I was a kid.

The last surving member of Brit forces who fought in WW1 passed away recently so we only have about 20 years to get firsthand experiences from the WW2 generation.

[NF11624]

I second that - you need to talk to him ASAP.  My grandfather was an artillery man in WWII, went in a couple days after D-Day (AFAIK).  He would never talk about the war, and now he has dementia and you can't really talk to him about anything.  You never know when they might go.

[Caffeine]

I wish I had talked with my dad more about Vietnam.  He wasn't much interesting in talking about it.

I worked with a really cool 80-year old Jewish guy a few years ago...he was in the American army in France in 1944-5...he had lots of stories, most of which were happy stories.   He didn't talk much about the shooting or the friends he lost...he talked a lot about people he met and experiences he had in between the fighting.   A real optimist! 

When I went to Australia in 1997, I visited the ANZAC Memorial in Sydney.    That is one place that will really make an impact on you...  I had to fight back the tears.  So many have died in wars.  It's really astounding what a waste of life it is to fight over things like where a borderline is drawn, or over the beliefs of one group vs. the beliefs of another group.   Not that I'm particularly a pacifist; armed conflict is unavoidable at times, but it seems like we get into them far too easily.   Invariably, someone gets richer in the process (Halliburton, etc.).

[yamahonkawazuki]

yup, mr clinton used halliburton, during war time, as much as mr bush did, and mr obama as well. im wanting to write a book, from vets points of view (un edited), Telling their stories. its becoming a logistical nightmare

[trumpetguy]

i find fault with ALL presidents, clinton and obama included, now can we not turn this into YET another war/anti war fight?, lets have some civility here.

Civility stems from mutual respect.  I don't see my comments as non-civil or as unrelated to the thread.   

Anyone who doesn't get a gut-wrenching ANTI-war reaction to seeing a war memorial or battlefield cemetery needs to have their DNA checked to be sure they are human.  My question, which should be asked OVER and OVER is: why do we Americans see war as the solution so frequently?  Why do we not learn from history?

Isn't the old adage "when your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail" applicable here?  When 50% of our government's budget is spent directly or indirectly on "defense," when we spend more on "defense" than the entire rest of the world combined, when we have VERY powerful military contractors with our politicians in their back pockets, isn't it not only possible but LIKELY that we'll find a way to get into a war and stay there for a long time?

Why can we not change that?  That would bring REAL honor to the memories of those who have fought and and those who have died -- that we figured out a way not to sacrifice members of the next generation.  Some of you have young children -- it could be them.  It could be my stepson.  We OWE it to our veterans and heroes to find a way to solve problems differently.  What we are doing is NOT working.

[yamahonkawazuki]

Well said my friend, well said   , i honestly wiht war wasnt even a thing/option/tectic. i honestly wish war did nto exist

BTW tg saw nothign wrong wiht your replies thusfar. , well a few thigns, BUT like i said out of civility and politeness. i wont bring em up. what i foudn was ( to me anyway) VERY minor.