Proper Braking Technique Question

[rger8]

So I have been practicing and I read somewhere to practice just puttting on the brakes without down shifting and with down shifting. I typically and by habit always down shift as I brake even while panic stopping. In the real world I wonder if I would really downshift in a panic situation?

I tried it without down shifting this week and as it slowed down all I could here was my tranny making funny noises, I guess because I was still in high gear when I was coming to a stop

Anyway what is the proper way to do this, if there is one

Thanks!

[cyberdork]

First thing to do in a panic situation (ideally) would be to swerve. Luckily I've never had a bad panic moment so during the moment I'd probally would still downshift out of habbit. That would be in my mind but not swerving unfortunately because I don't think clearly when panic'd

[Elijafir]

From the Arizona MVD Motorcycle manual:

The front brake is more powerful and can provide at least three-quarters of your total stopping power.
.....
Use both brakes every time you slow or stop.  Using both brakes for even "normal" stops will permit you to develop the proper habit or skill of using both brakes properly in an emergency.  Squeeze the front brake and press down on the rear brake.  Grabbing... / Jamming... can cause the brakes to lock, resulting in control problems.  If you know the technique, using both brakes in a turn is possible, although it should be done very carefully.  When leaning the motorcycle some of the traction is used for cornering. Less traction is available for stopping.  A skid can occur if you apply too much brake.  Also, using the front brake incorrectly on a slippery surface may be hazardous.  Use caution and SQUEEZE the brake lever, never grab.

Now I know your question is about shifting and stopping.. so I'm going to put this excerpt about "Shifting Gears" as well...

...Shift down through the gears "WITH THE CLUTCH" as you slow or stop.  Remain in first gear while you are stopped so that you can move out quickly if you need to.   Make certain you are riding slowly enough when you shift into a lower gear.  If not, the motorcycle will lurch, and the rear wheel may skid.  When riding downhill or shifting into first gear you may need to use the brakes to slow enough before downshifting safely.  Work toward a smooth, even clutch release, especially when downshifting.  It is best to change gears before entering a turn.  However, sometimes shifting while in the turn is necessary.  If so, remember to do so smoothly.
A SUDDEN CHANGE IN POWER TO THE REAR WHEEL CAN CAUSE A SKID.

I hope this helps answer your question.  

-Eli-

[SonsaFrantic]

Bail out 

[mister]

So I have been practicing and I read somewhere to practice just puttting on the brakes without down shifting and with down shifting. I typically and by habit always down shift as I brake even while panic stopping. In the real world I wonder if I would really downshift in a panic situation?

I tried it without down shifting this week and as it slowed down all I could here was my tranny making funny noises, I guess because I was still in high gear when I was coming to a stop

Anyway what is the proper way to do this, if there is one

Thanks!

Panic situation - or - Emergency situation.

Our motorcycle instructors teach... no gear change. BUT, after you've been riding for a while, changing gears is 2nd nature. And you WILL automatically change down gears as you pull up quick.

Just make sure you use your back brake for normal riding until it is 2nd nature too. Then you can consciously use whatever you like while Normal stopping. THEN, you will find, you will Automatically use both when needing to stop in a hurry. 

While it is good to practice these techniques. Be sure to also practice Scanning. It's Scanning that will see you identify hazards and avoid them. As such, practice your Push / Lean / Look evasive maneuvers too.

And also understand... the entire road surface, regardless of how it is marked, is available to ride on should the need arise. One day I;m following  a car. he is in the fast lane and approaching a car in the next lane - two lanes each way. When he draws level he slows to their speed. I can see a conversation is taking place. THEN, a guy in the car I was not following starts to lean out the window and grabs the other car for support. At this point I swerved across the road to where cars pull up and went around the entire fiasco. Too dangerous for me to be sitting behind. Screw the Road Rules. When MY safety is at stake, I consider all lines, speed signs, etc., as Advisory Only.

The E-Evasive can be practiced all over. While riding down the road, E-Evade manhole covers, patched potholes, visible cracks, etc. And practice E-Evading to the right & the left.

Time on the bike will then make it all more and more automatic.

Michael

[rger8]

Hey, great tips from everyone! Can't be to safe on these things and getting tips like this really helps. Always something to learn!

Appreciate the feedback 

[MajorMalphunction]

The E-Evasive can be practiced all over. While riding down the road, E-Evade manhole covers, patched potholes, visible cracks, etc. And practice E-Evading to the right & the left.

Time on the bike will then make it all more and more automatic.
Michael

That goes for all walks of life in my book.

[Electrojake]

So I have been practicing and I read somewhere to practice just putting on the brakes without down shifting and with down shifting. I typically and by habit always down shift as I brake even while panic stopping. In the real world I wonder if I would really downshift in a panic situation?

Just my 2 cents worth but. . .
The key here would be to get the bike stopped as quickly as possible and not sweat the method you use.

When practicing your panic stop techniques experiment a bit.
Try your best stop on rear brake only, front brake only, and then both brakes. Get the feel of what the bike feels like when its skidding (SLOWLY, on the practice lot) so that if it happens on the highway you don't get spooked by it.
A full panic stop for me personally (on the GS in particular)  is "clutch held in & front brake to the rescue".
It has been my experience that the rear brake on the GS is only good for making long black lines on the ground behind you.
Please keep in mind that I practice all my stuff at 25 to 35 MPH. That may sound slow but if you think you can develop a good "panic" technique at 75 MPH, you're a better man than me.

I'm a rookie here so my 2 cents worth is probably worth nothing but when I practice my stopping technique I will (occasionally) purposely bring the front tire into a skid toward the last few feet of the stop. The idea is to know what a balls-to-the-walls panic stop situation is gonna' feel like BEFORE you ever need to use it on the open road. As you practice, you will see your skid marks become much less and your stopping distance will get noticeably shorter. Measure you best stopping distance from 30 MPH now and write it down. Come back at the end of the summer and do it again and you'll be shocked at how bad your original best stopping distance actually was!

Kind of like driving on loose gravel.
If you get a little squeamish navigating your GS on loose or soft gravel, the best thing to do is find a gravel road and practice handling the less-than-pleasant feel of squirming through the crap so that it is not so frightening when the situation hits you unexpectedly somewhere on a road trip.
Or my favorite rookie nightmare: Having to drive in stop & go traffic on a steep upward incline.
(Is it just me of do the rear brakes on a GS suck at any speed, even stopped on a hill?)

Its good to see that other people actually read the books and practice the moves.
Nice post rger8!
-Ej-

[ohgood]

So I have been practicing and I read somewhere to practice just putting on the brakes without down shifting and with down shifting. I typically and by habit always down shift as I brake even while panic stopping. In the real world I wonder if I would really downshift in a panic situation?

Just my 2 cents worth but. . .
The key here would be to get the bike stopped as quickly as possible and not sweat the method you use.

When practicing your panic stop techniques experiment a bit.
Try your best stop on rear brake only, front brake only, and then both brakes. Get the feel of what the bike feels like when its skidding (SLOWLY, on the practice lot) so that if it happens on the highway you don't get spooked by it.
A full panic stop for me personally (on the GS in particular)  is "clutch held in & front brake to the rescue".
I1) t has been my experience that the rear brake on the GS is only good for making long black lines on the ground behind you.
Please keep in mind that I practice all my stuff at 25 to 35 MPH. That may sound slow but if 2) you think you can develop a good "panic" technique at 75 MPH, you're a better man than me.

I'm a rookie here so my 2 cents worth is probably worth nothing but when I practice my stopping technique I will (occasionally) purposely bring the front tire into a skid toward the last few feet of the stop. The idea is to know what a balls-to-the-walls panic stop situation is gonna' feel like BEFORE you ever need to use it on the open road. As you practice, you will see your skid marks become much less and your stopping distance will get noticeably shorter.3) Measure you best stopping distance from 30 MPH now and write it down. Come back at the end of the summer and do it again and you'll be shocked at how bad your original best stopping distance actually was!

Kind of like driving on loose gravel.
If you get a little squeamish navigating your GS on loose or soft gravel, the best thing to do is find a gravel road and practice handling the less-than-pleasant feel of squirming through the crap so that it is not so frightening when the situation hits you unexpectedly somewhere on a road trip.
Or my favorite rookie nightmare: Having to drive in stop & go traffic on a steep upward incline.
(Is it just me of do the rear brakes on a GS suck at any speed, even stopped on a hill?)

Its good to see that other people actually read the books and practice the moves.
Nice post rger8!
-Ej-

1) maybe your rear brake needs adjustment at the lever ? sounds like it's engaging way too early in it's travel. is your rear tire inflated proper ? in panic stops, on level clean roads, i don't leave any rear skids anymore. not saying i've perfected the technique at all. i -can- skid the rear easily if i mean to, but it takes quite a bit of travel from the rear brake pedal to do it. adjustment ?

2) panic braking at 75 makes me sweat bullets just thinking about it. four wheels means you've got a chance. two means something is going to hurt.

3) this is a very, very good suggestion. think i'll try it this year.

as far as gravel goes, i'd think trying out a buddie's dirt bike would be a pretty good idea on gravel. hopefully he'll forgive you for dropping his bike, and also hopefully he'll pick you up and help dig out the gravel when you do. DONT TRY THIS ALONE. i'll bet on the gravel winning. often.

good stuff

[Electrojake]

1) maybe your rear brake needs adjustment at the lever ? sounds like it's engaging way too early in it's travel. is your rear tire inflated proper ? in panic stops, on level clean roads, i don't leave any rear skids anymore. not saying i've perfected the technique at all. i -can- skid the rear easily if i mean to, but it takes quite a bit of travel from the rear brake pedal to do it. adjustment ?

as far as gravel goes, i'd think trying out a buddie's dirt bike would be a pretty good idea on gravel. hopefully he'll forgive you for dropping his bike, and also hopefully he'll pick you up and help dig out the gravel when you do. DONT TRY THIS ALONE. i'll bet on the gravel winning. often.

good stuff

Working for the railroad and commuting to work at various locations puts me on a number of unpleasant access roads. They're paved with a process called Ballast over Quarry Press. I had no choice but to practice and overcome the fear of riding over jagged pothole filled access roads. The hard jagged stuff is bad on the tires and the small soft deep stone is hard on the nerves.
I'll post a couple of picks.
The experience of navigating over this crap builds character. <heh-heh>

As for the rear brake on a GS500. . .
I am well aware of my inability to properly modulate the rear brake on this bike. On my little Yamaha I was guilty of working that rear stopper too much.
On the GS I'm down right afraid of it.
As the season moves on and I develop confidence on the GS, I'll probably start forcing myself to get better acquainted with the rear brakes.

Any suggestions for some "FF" rated rear pads?
I've already looked into. . .
Galfer P/N: FD-111 rears and,
EBC FA063 organic pads.
But I think they're GG/HH rated. Probably very touchy? No?
I also considered milling a 1 inch wide groove down the center of the rear pads in an attempt to reduce the surface area that would contact the rotor. I know it sound nuts but there is NO feel to the rears on this GS.
In the old days you could never lock a rear drum with a gentle toe tap like on the GS.
Yeah, when ever I'm lacking skill, I have a tendency to blame it on poor design.

And Thanks for your input above.
-Ej-

[gsJack]

Learn to use all three brakes all the time; front, rear, and engine.  The GS500 rear brake is a great asset, I wouldn't leave home without one.     We have dual discs, one on the front and one on the rear.  The GS rear can bite you at first and the only way you'll get a good feel for it is to use it.  Use it or loose it.

I've used mostly EBC organic pads front and rear but have also used some EBC HH pads both front and rear.  Front only for the HH is best until you get a good feel for the rear brake, it does grab quickly with strong braking power with the HH pads.  I bought some Emgo front pads from the local place I get my tires from once when I needed some in a hurry thinking I'd use them until I ordered the EBC but I really liked them and use them both front and rear now.  They grip somewhere between the EBC organic and HH pads and last almost forever, looks like I'll get 40k out of the fronts.

I put about 230k miles on four old Hondas that had disc front and drum rear and was in the habit of using mostly front only on those.  First month I had my 1st GS about 11 year ago I hit the brakes when a car started to pull out in front of me and locked the rear and low sided it so don't get discourged you'll really like that excellent rear brake when you get a feel for it.  A little rear brake in a corner will stabalize the bike much the same as a little throttle will in corners when you need to slow a bit rather than accelerate.  To be honest I first started using my GS rear brake a lot when I was following a big twin friend thru slower speed highway sweepers and he would engine brake a bit so I'd just use a little rear brake without backing off on the throttle to slow a bit without all the annoying drive line snatch of going off and on throttle.  Developed a great feel for the GS rear disc that way.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/jcp8832/GS500_brakes_chains.jpg

[BaltimoreGS]

Working for the railroad and commuting to work at various locations puts me on a number of unpleasant access roads. They're paved with a process called Ballast over Quarry Press. I had no choice but to practice and overcome the fear of riding over jagged pothole filled access roads. The hard jagged stuff is bad on the tires and the small soft deep stone is hard on the nerves.
I'll post a couple of picks.
The experience of navigating over this crap builds character. <heh-heh>

Not sure if it's the same but the rural roads in Bedford, PA are paved with what is called "Crush and Run."  Pretty much the road crews just dump some oil on the ground and put loose gravel over top of it.  Then it's the road traffics job to crush the gravel down into the oil.  It is a bit dicey when they first put it down but not bad once compacted.  It is actually easier to ride faster over the loose gravel because the bike floats on top of it instead of going slow and getting squirrely as the tires sink in.

-Jessie

[Electrojake]

Learn to use all three brakes all the time; front, rear, and engine.  The GS500 rear brake is a great asset, I wouldn't leave home without one.  

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/jcp8832/GS500_brakes_chains.jpg

Hey B-GS, I PMed you the other day, check your messages, nothing important but thanks for the help on the pegs. Your input made the project work!

And gsJack. . .
Your brake pad wear chart is amazing.
You yourself compiled that? Wow!
And thanks for your words on rear braking.
The rear brake in general is a good friend on any bike, it's just that the GS500 requires a disciplined touch to employ properly and I'm not there yet.
Experience, time, practice.
I'll get there.

Thanks for the input.
It all helps