Progressive Springs vs Stock Springs

[bassman]

I thought twice about making this post - but then I thought 'this site is all about sharing your tips and experience with this on-line community and it's such a great resource' - so here goes!

About a year ago I installed progressive springs in my GS500EY and raved about the improvement in handling, etc. But yesterday I reinstalled the original springs and spacers because I was just not happy with the cornering characteristics.  Riding to work and back today was an absolute joy!  Cornering was so good it restored my confidence in cornering that I was increasingly loosing.  The progressive springs are just too firm and raise the effective spring pre-load too high for my liking.  The problem could well be that the rear shock has got tired, leading to a mismatch in the spring pre-load position between the rear and front wheels. But I think the GS is too light in weight for these particular springs (Hagon).

The reason I've done this is because I fitted Hagon progressives to my Yamaha XJ600N this weekend (SECA II in the States). The improvement over the tired old Yamaha springs is phenomenal! The old Yamaha springs were nearly 2 inches below their service limit (they could have even been the wrong springs).  But the new progressives are perfect for the XJ600N which is like a Sherman Tank compared to the light and nimble GS500!

Anyway, the moral of the story is (drum roll...) don't be afraid to 'un-mod' if it just doesn't feel right!  That said, I'm so contrary, give it a few months and I'll probably have the progressives refitted to the GS

Bassman

[tt_four]

I remember putting the progressives in years ago and thinking they were great. Well after parking the bike for 4-5 years and pulling it back end, the front end isn't quite what I remember. I'm not sure if fork oil deteriorates that much over time. I plan on replacing it soon anyway, but as soon as I touch the front brake at all my front end just dives. It doesn't bottom out, but there's a noticeable drop. I'm gonna try to find some 20w oil for it and see how it feels.

I can definitely still remember how nice the stiff suspension felt on my last bike, and I've decided that for the rest of my life I'll always chose a bike with a nice suspension over more power. Squishy forks, or in your case, too rough, definitely takes away from a good ride.

[kml.krk]

@bassman - did you use stock spacers with progressive springs??

If you did this is the reason why your suspension is so stiff.
Stock spacers on F models are about 7 inches long.
Spacers that should be used for progressive springs should be about 1" long.

I also have progressive springs and recently noticed that my front suspension is too SOFT. I ordered new oil because just like tt_four I feel like it wend bad over the years.

I did not have a chance to put it in yet, but I also plan to put a little longer spacers to stiffen it up a little bit.

happy riding!
KML

[tt_four]

Kml, what weight oil did you get, and how long of spacers are you putting in? I definitely want to get the front end feeling a bit more stuff. I really miss that feeling. I also have one of the R6 rear shocks to put on my bike, and I'd like to get the front feeling better.

I'm planning on being pretty gentle with the bike for a while, so it doesn't need to be perfect for a 45 degree lean angle, but the biggest thing I want to stop is the front end dropping when I touch the brake.

I'm hoping that replacing the brake lines and fluid will help that too. Maybe they'll come on a little smoother and be less grabby. That might be half the problem.

[johnny ro]

I think you are on the right track, its "tuning", i.e. you adjust to get it where you want it. I took mine off and like it better without. Hard springs are fine for what they are meant to do but soft suspension is fine too if you like it that way.

[kml.krk]

Kml, what weight oil did you get, and how long of spacers are you putting in?[...]

I got 15W oil - I was afraid that 20W would be too dense.
Currently I have 3/4 in spacers, but I am thinking about making something in the range of 1-3 inches. Probably 2 inches and if it is still soft I will go closer to 3 inches.

I am not sure though when these changes will occur, as the weather got nicer and I spend every weekend fishing  and have no time to work on the bike.

cheers

[Gary856]

I can definitely still remember how nice the stiff suspension felt on my last bike, and I've decided that for the rest of my life I'll always chose a bike with a nice suspension over more power. Squishy forks, or in your case, too rough, definitely takes away from a good ride.

Very true. I put RaceTech 0.8kg/mm fork springs in my GS. It didn't feel that bad to me with stock springs, but with the firmer springs the bike's front end feels more planted.

When I got my SV650, the power was nice, but the crappy stock suspension really ruined it for me. It made the whole bike felt cheap and crude. That made me appreciate how important good suspension is. After some suspension upgrades the SV now feels much better overall.

[bassman]

All your responses show how 'individual' setup is.  I didn't use any spacers because I have adjustable preload fork end caps as stock. The forks are loaded with 15w oil - Hagon recommend 7.5w I think. I measured the existing stock springs and they were well in spec (the bike's only 10 years old and done 18,000miles). I do think that the progressives would work for me if I had a higher performance rear shock, but I'm not in the market for one at the moment.  Oil level is also important I'm sure.  When I changed the oil I was still using the original springs so set the oil level at around 105mm.  I then changed them out for the progressives without adjusting the oil level, so this could be a factor in the feel of the springs.  But at the end of the day, I can't argue with the better handling characteristics of the stock springs over the progressives.

Bassman

[tt_four]

I wonder if I'd get a lot more benefit from putting in different sized spacers. When I grab the brake the front end doesn't dive all the way down, it just makes a quick drop as soon as I tough the brake, and then evens out. If I put in taller spacers to compact the springs slightly, maybe they'd take up that first amount of soft suspension and I could get right to the smoother part. I'll have to play with it and see. New fork oil first, and if that doesn't help I'll try some spacers.

[Toogoofy317]

Is there a way to tell if you have aftermarket springs in your bike? I bought Flick used and I don't seem to have any bottoming out issues. Actually he handles quite nice.
Mary

[kml.krk]

Is there a way to tell if you have aftermarket springs in your bike? I bought Flick used and I don't seem to have any bottoming out issues. Actually he handles quite nice.
Mary

the only way I can think of is taking your springs out.
Stock springs are short and have about 7 inches long metal (pipe) spacer.
Anything other than that is not stock 

[Toogoofy317]

Ahh, well not gonna take apart the forks just to see. But, the bike handles nice don't fix what ain't broke!

Mary

[Markca]

Ahh, well not gonna take apart the forks just to see. But, the bike handles nice don't fix what ain't broke!

Mary

Amen to that!

[kml.krk]

hey tt_four, I changed my oil and put longer spacers in and changed oil.

I had 3/4" spacers and replaced them with 1.5" spacers.
I put new 15W oil in. The lazy method - I used hose to drain old one, put a little bit of fresh oil in, mixed it, sucked out again, and then put fresh stuff in.

I rode today for the first time, short trip, but I noticed great improvement.
I estimated my old fork oil to be 7 years old... and it was almost as dense as water  , especially in the left leg (right was quite OK, but dirty)

The front end doesn't dive any more, which is a great improvement, and the feedback from the pavement is better too.
Overall I already feel that my cornering confidence will be higher