Close call some and some Q's

[Deros514]

I was coming downhill at a relaxed pace, riding in my lane. I approach a right hand turn so I brake and also down-shift in anticipation of a left hand "u-turn"(circled in red) following after. I clear the first corner fine and lean the bike over for the left hand uie. At this point I realize I'm going wide and not looking at where were I want to go. I caught myself doing this and told myself the bike can lean more so I looked where I wanted to go and pushed her over harder. I was able to clear the corner but did some major scraping. I had the ball of my foot on the peg as close to the frame as I could and felt something going on with my inside foot. I didn't let it faze me and concentrated on making it down the hill. I thought I had scraped my shoe but after checking my shoe and the peg I confirmed that it was the peg that scraped.

Now I have my MSF instructor to thank as well as some Q's. I've been checking out other threads and it seems that hanging off would allow the bike to turn the same corner at the same speed but with less angle. Being a new rider I'm not ballsy enough to start hangin off the bike. Knowing how to corner harder with less lean could've avoided this close call. Now from what others have said the GS suspension is really soft. At 6'1" and 240# The weak suspension is an issue, especially when trying to do quick-stops. I'm already looking at upgrading that. Could the suspension also have played a role in why I started scraping?

[Strider]

I'd say more likely body position and stock pegs were the cuplrits, though soft suspension may be a contributing factor.  When I was learning to ride on the track I would scrape my center stand all the time.  I also got the bottom of my boot once.

[burning1]

Speed was the only factor. You made a mistake going into the corner, and handled it well.

You can gain a little cornering clearance by giving the bike some gas, and you can gain some clearance by moving your weight to the inside edge of the corner. If you enter the corner sitting on the bike, shifting your body to hang off is probably going to upset the bike and cause more harm than good. In that situation, I'd try to lean my upper body into the corner, and keep looking.

I found when I race the GS, often the cornering clearance I gained by getting on the gas outweighed the fact that being on the gas tends to cause the bike to drift towards the outside edge of the corner. Of course, being on the gas may not be an option in some corners. YMMV.

[Deros514]

Speed was the only factor. You made a mistake going into the corner, and handled it well.

Due to inexperience I was probably unaware that I was going faster than I should've. I avoided grabbing the brakes to prevent the situation going to worse. So I stuck it out at leaned over some more. I did get on the throttle to bring her back up but I'm not sure if it was before, after, or during the scraping.

I'd say more likely body position and stock pegs were the cuplrits, though soft suspension may be a contributing factor.

I can agree that body position was probably bad at that speed and tight turn. I'm thinking that if the bikes suspension was already working hard under my weight, taking a corner with lots of lean and reduced clearance was the bigger factor in the scraping.

I guess what I'm asking is, was this more of an issue with skill or the suspension? No doubt both need improvement but would an upgrade to the suspension help me out even more?

[ecpreston]

No doubt both need improvement but would an upgrade to the suspension help me out even more?

I think you've stated it perfectly here. I'm ~200 with gear on and the stock suspension was a problem when I started doing track days. It's basically close to bottomed out in a hard corner, reducing ground clearance and reducing the suspension's ability to keep doing its job. Obviously this issue is even worse for you. If I were you, I'd work on improving both. And the front springs and kat rear shock are extremely cheap and effective upgrades/insurance.

[Deros514]

I'm looking at rebuilding the forks so might as well stick some racetech spings in there. Now when I had a car on coilovers the rate was 8kg front and 6kg rear. The stiffer front meant there was a bit of under steer but it felt neutral because the car was rear wheel drive. Once I calculate the rate for the front springs on my GS, how do I find the ideal rate for the rear? Is is equal, softer, or firmer? The rear shock options we have should be easy to find springs for right?

[burning1]

Racetech's website lists the ideal springs for the front. Their calculator worked out nicely for me.

They don't have a listing for the rear. If you want to call them, they can provide the information for you.

For what it's worth, at 185lbs, the 11kg/mm rear shock off of a Katana 750 works very well for me, at the track. If I were you, I'd drop in a Katana 600/750 shock, and see how the spring works for you before swapping in something else.

[Deros514]

Oh so the rear is supposed to be waay stiffer than the front. I just dont want to pop stiffer springs up front and ignore the rear. That would really mess with the way the bike handles wouldn't it? I'll be doing some further reading on suspension setup so I can do it all in one shot when I rebuild the forks. I'll probably be having questions on sag, oil weight and level.

[burning1]

The front forks are a pair of springs in parallel, where the shock is a single spring supporting the rear of the bike. The front springs work directly against the forces acting on the front tire, where the rear shock is at a significant leverage disadvantage due both to the suspension linkage, and the fact that it's at the short end of a long lever (the swingarm.)

Although the spring on the rear shock is specified to be significantly stiffer than the front springs, the rear wheel may or may not be sprung stiffer than the front - I haven't actually looked at it that way.

[Pigeonroost]

At your size and in any tight downhill curve, your OE front forks are gonna be at or close to bottom.  When on bottom. traction goes to Hell in a handbasket and front end tends to plow ahead.  Good job of staying with it.

prs

[Deros514]

Yep I upgraded the front and rear to stiffer springs and have yet to scrape again. Ride quality is much better as well.

If anyone is interested...
6'1" @ 220
Racetech .85kg springs
15wt oil at 100mm
Katana 600 rear shock preload 4 damping 2

[burning1]

Dude, you weigh 220? No wonder you were having problems.

Did you know that the stock springs are appropriate for a 40lb rider?

[Deros514]

Wouldn't doubt that for a second lol

[A Non eMouse]

First, well done!  You didn't crash and you learned that you CAN lean the bike further.  I've changed my suspension, and I'm rather glad, but it won't save you from scraping parts.

Don't worry about hanging off, you can more-or-less fake it and get much of the benefit.  Try this on a familiar twisty road:

1. As you approach a corner, start on the "outside" of the corner (as you probably already did and as they taught you in the MSF).
2. As you enter a corner, point your nose at the furthest point you can see in the corner (as you learned you should always do and as they taught you in the MSF).
3. Now, as you lean the bike over, think about both elbows.
3a. Very slightly drop the inside elbow closer to the road.  You will find that your inside shoulder will follow along.
3a. Slightly straighten the outside elbow.  You will find that that you force yourself to push your upper body slightly more into the turn.

After you're comfortable with the elbows, try the next corner like this.  Repeat steps 1 and 2 (always), but before you lean the bike over, slide your shoulders into the corner to lean your upper-body over into the turn.  Here is my stick-figure drawing of it:

  0
-/-
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Then repeat step 3.

Check out this dude's elbows, upper body, and head positions (ignore the knee):  CLICK HERE

As you get more comfortable with leaning your upper body further into the corner, dropping your inside elbow, and straightening your outside elbow, you will find that you need to lean the bike a little less when you take a corner at the same speed.  Once you're totally cool with leaning your upper body off, you can try a "half-cheek" hang off.  Before (long before, not right before) you lean your body or the bike over into the corner, ever-so-slightly, scoot your butt into the corner and let a "half-cheek" hang off the seat.  Look way into the corner, lean your body and bike into the corner, drop the inside elbow, straighten the outside elbow.  And KEEP YOUR DAMN KNEE IN unless you have knee-pucks and you're on a track.

This is very useful when you've taken a corner too fast and need to corner hard.  I'm not suggesting that you corner hard for fun.