I dont get different sprockets... Seems like snake oil?

[xunedeinx]

Ok, So I get the fact that it changes the rpms at which the gear is it, and technically should raise top end if you go bigger gears, which is a non-issue for the 500 because it cant go that fast...

So, I get a 14t, and i'm in first up to 10krpm, just like before, only I have to shift at 20mph instead of 30mph.... Which, would be a bad thing because it would make 1st basically useless?

So, you get a 17t, and i'm in first up to 10k rpm, and I shift at 50mph, which to me seems more useful, only issue is off the line from 0-5mph your going to have a weed-eater for power.. Which don't seem like an upgrade either...

Why not keep the stock sprockets, and just shift sooner or later, if you want to be shifting every two seconds (14t) or every 4 min (17t) ((over-exaggeration))

I see why the 14t could be useful, but you also make all your other gears last 1/2 as long, your not changing the ratio of the tranny, just the final drive..

Wouldn't it be more desirable to stick on a BIGGER sprocket, suck up being slow for the first 5 mph, and have LONGER gears? You'd also have an overdrive for highway?

Is riding out 1st gear until 40mph, then hitting second in the powerband all ready going fast unfavorable? Or, is it better to wind out the motor every ten mph just so you have a faster off the line experience?

I come from the car world, so I may be completely missing something, but if I change the rear end from a 3.10 to a 4.10, It FEELS lighter, has a faster 60ft time, but is winding out at high speed, and it goes through the entire gear set by 50mph. If I go from a 3.10 to 2.73's, 1st gear would be slow, and my 60ft times will go down, but once I get in the powerband I can stay there until 90mph...

Thoughts?

-Justin

[EDIT] Another thought, I commute in town 99% of the time. Wouldn't it be more preferable to shift less often, due to widely changing traffic speeds, then more often? 14t id be jumping between 1st and 4th,  17t id be between 1st and 2ed. with the stock 16t, im between 1 and 3.

[mass-hole]

I just changed to a 45t rear which is effectively the same as a 14t front. (my review i just posted, http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=56771.0)
Yes it does make your first gear quicker, yes it makes the rpm split between the gears smaller, and yes it makes u have to shift a little quicker. But from riding the last 2 days I have had it installed I can tell you that the bike is a much more enjoyable ride not only in terms of performance but also driveability, comfort, and ease of use. The bike is better all around except for long-distance highway cruising. I actually liked it better on the short highway runs that I do because it puts 6th in the powerband and makes it usable so you dont need to downshift to speed up or pass someone.

I ride mostly windy, hilly backroads so you can see where the gearing is an advantage for me. If you ride on the highway I would say not so much.

[xunedeinx]

But, if you had stayed in the gear w/ the origional sprockets 5mph longer... it would be the same thing?

I shift a lot as it is with the 16t, in 5 seconds im in 4th, and im shifting at around 9.5k.

Our powerband is around 6.5-9.5 before it drops off...

Would it be better to stay in that range longer, instead of shorter?

[bombjack]

It really comes down to what kind of riding you do. I'm mostly riding long freeway rides, so I have installed a 17t and love it.  
If I was riding urban areas with a lot of traffic, I guess the slow starts would be annoying.
The stock 16T is a mix of both and most riders will not have a problem with this.

Changing the sprocket is not an upgrade per se. It's more like customizing your bike for your riding style, imo.

[madjak30]

It really comes down to what kind of riding you do. I'm mostly riding long freeway rides, so I have installed a 17t and love it.  
If I was riding urban areas with a lot of traffic, I guess the slow starts would be annoying.
The stock 16T is a mix of both and most riders will not have a problem with this.

Changing the sprocket is not an upgrade per se. It's more like customizing your bike for your riding style, imo.

Totally agree 

My riding is mostly hiway, so I would do the same (go up one...)

If you are an urban rider, the lower gearing is better for the traffic...(although I don't remember having a problem with the stock gearing, but my new bike idles at 1000rpm and in 1st that is 15kph - 10mph so higher ratio sprockets would help around town)

Later.

[mass-hole]

Yea it is riding style/terrain, I agree.

Your right about drag racing with cars. You put a higher numerical diff gear in and you will rev higher faster. It will get you off the line quicker IF your car is not powerful enough and doesnt make enough torque to break the tires loose at whatever launch rpm u are leaving the line at. If you make enough power you will be faster with the taller gear cause u wont spin and you have the power to push the gears. I have a 2006 GTO and in that community people with stock or close to stock cars will switch from a 3.42 rear end to a 3.91 or 4.10 and its well documented that they are dropping up to .2-.5 sec in the quarter mile depending on the car setup. Dudes with twin turbos or superchargers that are make 500+ whp will leave the rear end gear stock or go numerically lower it cause they make enough power to leave the line with out the torque multiplication of the higher numerical gears.

In the case of our bikes, since they dont really pop wheelies, and dont have traction issues, I believe the lower gearing will get you off the line and up to speed quicker, but once you are moving the advantage will be null because after my first gear your overall gears(including transmission) will no longer be numerically lower on average.

[Worm]

Ok, So I get the fact that it changes the rpms at which the gear is it, and technically should raise top end if you go bigger gears, which is a non-issue for the 500 because it cant go that fast...

So, I get a 14t, and i'm in first up to 10krpm, just like before, only I have to shift at 20mph instead of 30mph.... Which, would be a bad thing because it would make 1st basically useless?

So, you get a 17t, and i'm in first up to 10k rpm, and I shift at 50mph, which to me seems more useful, only issue is off the line from 0-5mph your going to have a weed-eater for power.. Which don't seem like an upgrade either...

Why not keep the stock sprockets, and just shift sooner or later, if you want to be shifting every two seconds (14t) or every 4 min (17t) ((over-exaggeration))

I see why the 14t could be useful, but you also make all your other gears last 1/2 as long, your not changing the ratio of the tranny, just the final drive..

Wouldn't it be more desirable to stick on a BIGGER sprocket, suck up being slow for the first 5 mph, and have LONGER gears? You'd also have an overdrive for highway?

Is riding out 1st gear until 40mph, then hitting second in the powerband all ready going fast unfavorable? Or, is it better to wind out the motor every ten mph just so you have a faster off the line experience?

I come from the car world, so I may be completely missing something, but if I change the rear end from a 3.10 to a 4.10, It FEELS lighter, has a faster 60ft time, but is winding out at high speed, and it goes through the entire gear set by 50mph. If I go from a 3.10 to 2.73's, 1st gear would be slow, and my 60ft times will go down, but once I get in the powerband I can stay there until 90mph...

Thoughts?

-Justin

[EDIT] Another thought, I commute in town 99% of the time. Wouldn't it be more preferable to shift less often, due to widely changing traffic speeds, then more often? 14t id be jumping between 1st and 4th,  17t id be between 1st and 2ed. with the stock 16t, im between 1 and 3.

You said it in your line about being from the car world. There's no difference between changing the final drive in a car and a bike (the sprockets on a bike are the final drive). The same principals apply. The bigger the ratio the faster you can accelerate and the smaller the ratio the higher your top speed can be (obviously these are not the only factors to acceleration and top speed but theoretically that's how it works!).

[xunedeinx]

Yea it is riding style/terrain, I agree.

Your right about drag racing with cars. You put a higher numerical diff gear in and you will rev higher faster. It will get you off the line quicker IF your car is not powerful enough and doesnt make enough torque to break the tires loose at whatever launch rpm u are leaving the line at. If you make enough power you will be faster with the taller gear cause u wont spin and you have the power to push the gears. I have a 2006 GTO and in that community people with stock or close to stock cars will switch from a 3.42 rear end to a 3.91 or 4.10 and its well documented that they are dropping up to .2-.5 sec in the quarter mile depending on the car setup. Dudes with twin turbos or superchargers that are make 500+ whp will leave the rear end gear stock or go numerically lower it cause they make enough power to leave the line with out the torque multiplication of the higher numerical gears.

In the case of our bikes, since they dont really pop wheelies, and dont have traction issues, I believe the lower gearing will get you off the line and up to speed quicker, but once you are moving the advantage will be null because after my first gear your overall gears(including transmission) will no longer be numerically lower on average.

Thats what I was thinking. After the initial jump off the line, its going to be a shifting frenzy. Id rather have 1st a little taller, and be in the power band the rest of the gears for longer..

Idk, maybe a 17t is better for me then a 16t? Or, should I just get a 15 and a 17 to see what I like?

[mass-hole]

What kind of riding do you do, highway, twisties, city?

[xunedeinx]

Mostly in town, isn't really city, but busy 2 lane "highways", route 60, 78, 31 if you know florida.

Jumped on the interstate a few times, no major issues, just kinda unnerving.

Honestly, I don't really have any issue with the amount of shifting I do, although i've never ridden another bike before other then mine, so IDK.

I think taller would be nicer because I would be in the powerband longer, but, again I have no clue.

[Worm]

Thing you have to remember is the powerband isn't real powerful on the little GS.

[mass-hole]

You will be in the powerband longer, but u also gotta know if you have enough power to effectively turn the higher gear ratio and if it will benefit you. If your planning on staying in one gear and cruising around at the same speed like you would on the highway then go for the 17t. If ur accelerating a lot and not cruising at over 50-55 much then def go lower. With my 45t my bike sits at 4.5k at 50mph in 6th which is completely reasonable. Any lower and it will have trouble on hill and start lugging.


I'm telling you its a whole different experience after going to the 45t out back, makes it so much more fun. Literally im trying to think of things I have to do during work so I can go ride to the post office or something.

[burning1]

Someone failed 7th grade mechanical engineering.   

Changing the sprockets changes the engine's mechanical leverage over the rear wheel. Smaller front sprocket or larger rear sprocket means that the engine exerts more force on the wheel in any given gear, so as you pull away in first, you pull harder, but you have to shift a little sooner. On some bikes, overly short gearing will reduce your top speed, because the bike reaches redline or revs above the power band in top gear before you reach the speed the bike is capable of. My GT is like that from the factory (it's gearing limited to 160, even though the 160 horsepower engine could push the bike faster.) On the GS however, gearing is so tall from the factory that shorter gearing can actually improve top speed.

In practice, increasing your gearing ratio will tend to help you out a little in the lower gears, but hurt you in taller gears - you eventually reach a point where the shorter gearing forces you to be in a taller gear than you would otherwise need with taller gearing. E.g. With a -1 +3 setup, you might need to be in 5th where the stock gearing provides equivalent drive in 4th... And when you hit 6th, you suffer because the bike is really high in the RPMs, buzzes a lot, and consumes a lot of fuel.

Shorter gearing provides more overlap between gears, which can be a benefit on some roads - it's easier to find the perfect gear for a particular corner.

Here's a great article on gearing, shift points, and power at the rear wheel. I might eventually take their spreadsheet and punch in the dyno numbers I have from my GS to show how it looks on our bike.

http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0402_art/index.html

[mass-hole]

Can you post your Dynochart here, I would love to take a look at it. I havent seen one for the GS

[xunedeinx]

Can you post your Dynochart here, I would love to take a look at it. I havent seen one for the GS

Its on the homepage on the right hand side.

[mister]

It's all smoke and mirrors and what isn't is blind faith. 

Imagine a stock bike and a smaller front sprocket bike racing in a straight line. What will happen is... the smaller sprocket will pull away quicker to a certain distance (say ten yards ahead for example sake), then both bikes will level peg. As both bikes get into 6th, the stock bike will start to gain and will pull away.

The Suzuki Engineers spent a lot of time figuring out the best configuration for the bike. Leave it as so and you'll enjoy many happy riding miles 

And let those who want to play with sprockets enjoy their versions. And we are all happy 

Michael

[bombjack]

The Suzuki Engineers spent a lot of time figuring out the best configuration for the bike average rider

Fixed it 

[Toogoofy317]

I've got a 15 tooth on Flick he is a commuter and i like getting just that little bit extra off the line when driving is red light to red light. I get away from the cars as fast as I reasonably can.

Mary

[the mole]

You're right, xunedeinx, its mostly snake oil. At the end of the day what makes your bike(car) perform is horsepower vs weight and drag. Gearing has a relatively small effect on real world, on road performance. Going to shorter gearing makes the bike feel like its accelerating quicker, because you're used to how it accelerated before, but as you say each gear takes you to a lower speed, so overall there's little difference, as you have to change up sooner. I went to a 17 and like the bike better like that. My top speed has improved, but that happens in 5th, not 6th. 6th is a cruising gear, almost never use it around town. With my stock motor and a top-box there is more drag than standard (and I'm bigger than most Japanese test riders) so slightly lower gearing is better for top speed= 17 tooth in 5th or 15 tooth in 6th. By going with the 17t option I get good economy and relaxed cruising in 6th, and I don't care if my acceleration off the line is 1/10th second slower.
People talk about lower gearing giving you more rear whel horsepower, this is not true. It gives more rear wheel torque, which is very different. Rear wheel horsepower is the same no matter what sprocket you have, or even what gear you are in. Its just engine horsepower less the friction losses in the transmission and tyre, its the same regardless of sprocket size.
For those who disagree with me, please read up on what horsepower and torque actually are before hitting the keyboard. Thanks!

[mass-hole]

You're right, xunedeinx, its mostly snake oil. At the end of the day what makes your bike(car) perform is horsepower vs weight and drag. Gearing has a relatively small effect on real world, on road performance. Going to shorter gearing makes the bike feel like its accelerating quicker, because you're used to how it accelerated before, but as you say each gear takes you to a lower speed, so overall there's little difference, as you have to change up sooner. I went to a 17 and like the bike better like that. My top speed has improved, but that happens in 5th, not 6th. 6th is a cruising gear, almost never use it around town. With my stock motor and a top-box there is more drag than standard (and I'm bigger than most Japanese test riders) so slightly lower gearing is better for top speed= 17 tooth in 5th or 15 tooth in 6th. By going with the 17t option I get good economy and relaxed cruising in 6th, and I don't care if my acceleration off the line is 1/10th second slower.
People talk about lower gearing giving you more rear whel horsepower, this is not true. It gives more rear wheel torque, which is very different. Rear wheel horsepower is the same no matter what sprocket you have, or even what gear you are in. Its just engine horsepower less the friction losses in the transmission and tyre, its the same regardless of sprocket size.
For those who disagree with me, please read up on what horsepower and torque actually are before hitting the keyboard. Thanks!

Everything you said is right, but is still a matter of preference. I do care about the 1/10 of a second off the line, and I would rather have my 6th gear be useful for things other than cruising. Now if i want to track my bike next year, I can use all six gears cause they can all pull fairly well. Again, personal preference. That is why I asked what kind of riding he does. I would never recommend him using a 14t front sproket if he rides on the highway at steady, high speeds. For the riding I do, my 45t rear sprocket is way better than stock and would be way better than a 17t front.

As far as top end, I was not aware that our bikes could redline in 5th(i have never actually tried it), I thought most people were saying the bikes would hit around 120mph indicated and that was it.