front wheel/tire balance

[twocool]

So I put on a new front tire earlier this summer, but did not balance it.  I figured I might get my "guy" to do it, but I am way to cheap.

I started looking at balancing stands on the internet...like $60 and up....mostly just a metal stand with a couple of bearings......

So I figured I'd make my own......Cheap-arse stand....cost $0...  used 2x4's and bearings from skate wheels.....

Most of the store bought balancing stands use some sort of drill rod for an axle and have bolt-on "cones" to fit the wheel.....sort of a one-size-fits-all solution.  Since I only wanted to do my front wheel, I designed my stand to use the actual front axle, with no "cones" needed.......

Turns out, (as I suspected) that the front wheel bearings are "free" enough, that I didn't even need to use the roller skate bearings......The wheel spins nice and easy and will settle to the heavy part downward........again, the store bought versions have to figure on a wheel having "tight" bearings, maybe sticky with grease...but the GS front bearings are "sealed" type and very free.......

This means that you could actually balance the wheel right on the bike, but you would have to remove the brake caliper, because too much drag on the disc....

Now...the tire that I installed is an "AVON"...it has no "dot" to marke the light spot........but it looks like I only need less than an ounce to balance the wheel/tire!

So...I go to the auto parts store to get some little stick on lead weights...They don't sell!  Says nobody does his own balancing!!  Guess I gotta stop by the motorcycle shop tomorrow...or make my own lead weights...

Cookie

[Big Rich]

That's how I lace all my spoked wheels - the axle and a couple of jack stands. Some wheel truing stands cost over $200! For that price, they should lace and true the wheel themselves....

[BaltimoreGS]

I have a piece of steel rod that I stick in a vice for balancing.

-Jessie

[twocool]

That's how I lace all my spoked wheels - the axle and a couple of jack stands. Some wheel truing stands cost over $200! For that price, they should lace and true the wheel themselves....

When I was a kid I worked for a bicycle shop in town...they actually made their own racing bike frames there.......I got good at building up wheels........I made maybe 2000 wheels for that shop in my basement......just used an old junk bicycle frame and fork to true the wheels.........


Cookie

[weedahoe]

if you are looking for tire weight then why not go by a tire or rim shop?

and why stick on weights?

why not balancing beads?

Thats what i use in my truck tires.

[twocool]

if you are looking for tire weight then why not go by a tire or rim shop?

and why stick on weights?

why not balancing beads?

Thats what i use in my truck tires.

Tire shop / bike shop was to be my next stop....but found a clip on weight in the shop and cut it down to correct weight.... ...so bike is back in service this morning

Stick on weights are quick and easy and come in 1/4 ounce each...

Balancing beads??   OK we can start another argument and end up in the trad farm again!!!     

Cookie

[weedahoe]

Certainly not trying to start anything but seeking education.  What do you guys have against balancing beads? That's the only way I could balance my truck tires and i didn't want stick on weight on my custom rims anyway. Just like I wouldn't want stick on weights on my bike rims either.

[BaltimoreGS]

Certainly not trying to start anything but seeking education.  What do you guys have against balancing beads? That's the only way I could balance my truck tires and i didn't want stick on weight on my custom rims anyway. Just like I wouldn't want stick on weights on my bike rims either.

Some people like them, others don't believe they work.  They've come up on the board before, here are 2 recent threads:

http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=54318.msg612688#msg612688

http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=51476.msg582770#msg582770

I'm a "show me" kind of guy and never using them myself I can't render an opinion on them.  I would have to try them in a wheel/tire combination I know has a noticeable vibration to believe that they work.  I have mounted tires and ridden on them without balancing and not felt any vibrations at highway speeds.  As far as stick on weights, I don't really care about looks so they are fine by me   

-Jessie

[twocool]

Certainly not trying to start anything but seeking education.  What do you guys have against balancing beads? That's the only way I could balance my truck tires and i didn't want stick on weight on my custom rims anyway. Just like I wouldn't want stick on weights on my bike rims either.

Some people like them, others don't believe they work.  They've come up on the board before, here are 2 recent threads:

http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=54318.msg612688#msg612688

http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=51476.msg582770#msg582770

I'm a "show me" kind of guy and never using them myself I can't render an opinion on them.  I would have to try them in a wheel/tire combination I know has a noticeable vibration to believe that they work.  I have mounted tires and ridden on them without balancing and not felt any vibrations at highway speeds.  As far as stick on weights, I don't really care about looks so they are fine by me   

-Jessie

All I can say is I am suspicious of the claims made for the product......might work, might not....

Since I now have my new balancing stand.....it doesn't concern me whether the beads work or don't work.....because I do know that balancing with weights does balance the wheel.....whether even that is necessary is also up for debate...but since it cost me exactly $0, I don't care about that arguement either...

I  have read that the beads do work well in large truck tires...like tractor trailer size......

It stands to reason that with beads, once you stop, the tire is guaranteed to be out of balance, at least until you get going again.....hmmmm........

Since you can, (and I have) ride on totally unalanced wheels with no particular bad effect, how do you know the beads are even working?

Manufacturers like to make claims which sound great, yet are hard to prove one way or another....they like to go more on the emotional level..

Cookie

[weedahoe]

well i can tell you for a fact balancing beads work.

My truck tires are Pirelli 325/45/24 tires on 24 inch rims and a 12 inch lift. I bought them in Miami one summer and they were supposed to be balance. Well they were until i got around 65 on I-95 and then they shook like hell. It took me forever to get home.

Got home and had a local rim shop rebalance and they still shook. They tried to blame the tires. I went to a front end shop that road force balanced them and although better, they still had some bounce.

With a good chunk of change already invested in balancing, i didnt want to keep doing it. I went on ebay and bought 40oz of beads and put 10oz in each tires and I had zero issues afterwards.

So believe me, they do work.

[Dr.McNinja]

I've never had to worry about it. Even though I've been intrigued by how to do it myself because I love motorcycle DIY, I don't trust myself to properly balance a tire. I'd prefer an expert and a digitally precise machine to do that part for me. That being said I always replace my tires together as a set, and the shop me and everyone else I know goes to only charges something like 15 bucks on top of whatever you paid for the tires to do the balance. A set usually runs between 200-400 for remotely okay tires. 15 bucks is a drop in the bucket and you can pick them up same day usually.


All of this being said you can usually buy balancing beads/lead weights/whatever from a tire balancing specialist store. The places that sell the equipment to perform the balance typically sell the weights.

[mister]

Tire joint our work uses for their truck and oher machinery tires, use some kind of Powder in the tires for balancing. Admits it does stuff all at like 30 mph and will all settle back down when stopped, but claims tires don't really need balancing for slow speeds anyway.

I'll stick to my weights.

Michael

[twocool]

well i can tell you for a fact balancing beads work.

My truck tires are Pirelli 325/45/24 tires on 24 inch rims and a 12 inch lift. I bought them in Miami one summer and they were supposed to be balance. Well they were until i got around 65 on I-95 and then they shook like hell. It took me forever to get home.

Got home and had a local rim shop rebalance and they still shook. They tried to blame the tires. I went to a front end shop that road force balanced them and although better, they still had some bounce.

With a good chunk of change already invested in balancing, i didnt want to keep doing it. I went on ebay and bought 40oz of beads and put 10oz in each tires and I had zero issues afterwards.

So believe me, they do work.

Lots of questions left unanswered.........

Did they leave on the balancing weights from the conventional balance and then add the beads??

Were the guys who did the conventional balance idiots??  (conventional balance seems to work for eveybody else...)

How could it NOT be the tires?  I mean if the tire were balance in the first place, you wouldn't need balancing........

I never heard of a tire which was immune to balancing by conventional methods...until now...

10 oz per tire??  Holy crap.....my motorcycle needs ony 1/4 ounce on the rear, and 3/4 oz on the front........I don't want half a pound extra in each tire!!!

Are those tires "stock" or even recommended on that truck?  Or "home brew" custom oversize etc???

Most people who say the beads work, say they will work on large truck tires but not on small car tires..(or motorcycle)

Do we go straight to the tard farm now?  Or let this realy heat up and let every get really pissed off?

Cookie

[twocool]

I've never had to worry about it. Even though I've been intrigued by how to do it myself because I love motorcycle DIY, I don't trust myself to properly balance a tire. I'd prefer an expert and a digitally precise machine to do that part for me. That being said I always replace my tires together as a set, and the shop me and everyone else I know goes to only charges something like 15 bucks on top of whatever you paid for the tires to do the balance. A set usually runs between 200-400 for remotely okay tires. 15 bucks is a drop in the bucket and you can pick them up same day usually.


All of this being said you can usually buy balancing beads/lead weights/whatever from a tire balancing specialist store. The places that sell the equipment to perform the balance typically sell the weights.

Doc,

$$$ is all relative........$15 is significant to me.....

Motorcycle guy local charges $25 to mount and balance a motorcycle tire...seems like a fair price...

But I spent the $25 on tire irons...built my own tire breaker and my own wheel balance stand......did two tires so far so I'm $25 ahead....(plus 5 scooter tires)....I do trust myself to do a good balance, at least on motorcycle........

My car guys sells tire, mount, balance, new valve, install all for one price....I can't do this job myself....so I pay...but motorcycle is easy....

Many experts say balance in not needed........

Either way, I would trust balance with weights over beads flying around inside tire....

Cookie

[twocool]

Tire joint our work uses for their truck and oher machinery tires, use some kind of Powder in the tires for balancing. Admits it does stuff all at like 30 mph and will all settle back down when stopped, but claims tires don't really need balancing for slow speeds anyway.

I'll stick to my weights.

Michael

Again...for truck tires, the beads or powder or whatever seems to be OK, ore even desirable.....

(what would it cost the truck tire guy to by a computer, dynamic balance machine for large truck tires?  $5,000?   $10,000?   It's more cost effective for him to charge you a couple of bucks for the magic beads, and tell you that's all you need....

Again many say balancing is not necessary....

On a motorcycle I think you should stick with weights...

Cookie

[twocool]

Looks like the arguement is going to heat up..so I'm making a tew topic on tire beads!

My original post was to the DIY guys..on how simple it is to balance wheels, and you don't need a fancy $200 rig...just use some crap from around the shop....

So continue the bead arguement under new topic...bead balance....

Cookie

[BaltimoreGS]

I never heard of a tire which was immune to balancing by conventional methods...until now...

A tire can be perfectly balanced and still have a vibration if it is too far out of round.  The tire can be checked for roundness with the previously mentioned "road force balancing."  The machine can check the tire and rim assembly and recommend an alternate way to remount the tire to reduce the total run out of the assembly.  If the road force is still excessive after remounting you either have a bad tire or a bent rim.  Michelin is the only brand that I have seen that builds consistently high quality tires.  And Goodyear puts out a surprising number of crappy tires (especially the Integrity model).

-Jessie

[weedahoe]

Lots of questions left unanswered.........

Did they leave on the balancing weights from the conventional balance and then add the beads??

Were the guys who did the conventional balance idiots??  (conventional balance seems to work for eveybody else...)

How could it NOT be the tires?  I mean if the tire were balance in the first place, you wouldn't need balancing........

I never heard of a tire which was immune to balancing by conventional methods...until now...

10 oz per tire??  Holy crap.....my motorcycle needs ony 1/4 ounce on the rear, and 3/4 oz on the front........I don't want half a pound extra in each tire!!!

Are those tires "stock" or even recommended on that truck?  Or "home brew" custom oversize etc???

Most people who say the beads work, say they will work on large truck tires but not on small car tires..(or motorcycle)

Do we go straight to the tard farm now?  Or let this realy heat up and let every get really pissed off?

Cookie

you never leave sticks on weights on when using beads. DUH......

again, rims where balanced at the tire and rim shop i bought them from. when i got home i took it to another and lastly i did a shop who road force balanced them.

it might not have been the tires. it could have been the rims.

if you havent heard of a tire hard to balance until now then you obviously dont ride big tires. some all/mud terrains have these issues

my tires weight about 80lbs each (not counting the rims). i know thats a big difference from a bike tire but 10oz is a drop in the bucket for my rims and tires

stock? recommended? homebrew?

no truck on the market comes with 24"tires so obviously they are not stock. is a katana rim recommended n a gs500? sure it fit and spins and clears, but from a technical safety or engineering aspect, is it recommended? probably not. but if we secure it in place and balance it, where is the problem? same goes for rims and tires on a 4 wheeled ride also. WTH is homebrew?? LOL. I dont make my own tires

no need for the tard farm. were all civilized and educated here.

[Dr.McNinja]

Just so you guys have it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2AuivYzaBs


There's a link for static tire balancing.