To anybody who thinks our bikes are slow...

[Phil B]

There are a few big differences between riding a GS and riding a faster bike. The most obvious one is that the GS500 is cornering clearance limited, but delivers enough grip that it's generally possible to keep the throttle wide open at maximum lean angle. Try that on even a 600 and you're on your head..

Any idea why that is? or why that is better?
I would think that, since a 600 is LIGHTER, and has newer tech tires, AND fancy-schmancy suspension, it should theoretically be able to outcorner a gs500, if they were at matched speed.

Is it basically that the 600 riders dont have enough fine throttle control, so they wimp out on the safe side, rather than matching your speed on a particular tight turn?

Or I think I read that fatter tires, actually reduce your lean angle potential. If so... then why do people often choose to "upgrade" a gs500 to wider tires, and thus theoretically reduce their track cornering? !! ??

[Phil B]

nice.  PS: the B class sucks. I could do better than them I bet

Most people say that until they get out on the track.

PS:
yea, but I'm a Gran Turismo pro! 

ha-ha.. but kinda true too. It's given me pretty good ability to plan smooth cornering.
The guys i was following around the canyon last month, thought I'd been riding for years, when we stopped afterwards to have a chat. They were surprised I was keeping up with them.


(They're track regulars)

[burning1]

Any idea why that is? or why that is better?
I would think that, since a 600 is LIGHTER, and has newer tech tires, AND fancy-schmancy suspension, it should theoretically be able to outcorner a gs500, if they were at matched speed.

Is it basically that the 600 riders dont have enough fine throttle control, so they wimp out on the safe side, rather than matching your speed on a particular tight turn?

Or I think I read that fatter tires, actually reduce your lean angle potential. If so... then why do people often choose to "upgrade" a gs500 to wider tires, and thus theoretically reduce their track cornering? !! ??

The people riding at local trackdays don't have the experience or the skill of the local racers. The seasoned guys on the 600s can out-brake, out-corner, and out-accelerate me... The only advantage the GS has there is that the overall speeds are slower, giving me a little more confidence and room for error. I don't have to deal with an entry speed of 150MPH into turn 1 at T-Hill, they do.

The GS500 can corner WFO throttle because it doesn't have much power, and because the CV carbs are relatively smooth. I make ~35-40HP at the rear wheel, where the 600s make 100+, and the literbikes make >150. Because they have more power, they can use different lines than I do; lines that are actually a little safer. But they can't go wide open at maximum lean angle.

The tires on the GS race bike are actually pretty good, BTW. There are full on race tires in 110/70/17 for the front, and the BT003RS 140/70/17 rear works really well - it's a special extra soft compound, so more like a race tire than a street tire. On my particular bike, I have a GSX-R 600 front end, and a R6 rear shock. They both work really well.

I believe that the GS is lighter than the typical 600 in race trim. It doesn't weigh in at 250lbs like the 2 strokes, but I believe it comes in around the mid 300s, so I have perhaps a 50lb advantage. I'd have to weigh it to see.

[burning1]

One thing about the GS, and the other lightweight bikes... They punish mistakes. I don't have the ability to power out of a mistake, so when I do something stupid, I notice it immediately. It makes for a steep learning curve, but I improve quickly because of it.

Because the GS doesn't have huge amounts of power, I learn to corner while accelerating hard. Most of the B group and a lot of the A group 600s don't do that. There are a lot of places on the track where I don't roll off at all; for example, in the 'chasing the 600s video' you can see how quickly I catch up going into Turn 1 (the left hand turn after the long straight.) Most of the 600s slow down there, I just keep it pinned. It took some time to develop that kind of confidence, but after developing it it became an incredible tool to compete against faster bikes.

Being competitive while racing means learning how much lean angle I can use, so I have an advantage as a rider there. The bike isn't really better, I just happen to be able to be confident to lean further than a lot of the B group and A group guys.

[rayshon]

Hey the lean angle is clearance limited?

Can't that be helped by changing the stock footrests? Those things are HUGE

[Phil B]

burning1, sounds like you're basically agreeing with me. To summarize:
1. 600s make the rider sloppy
2. the class B guys suck: they're all sloppy 600 guys

Also, (although oddly I cant find it again), you mention that the "faster" bikes, approach the turns at higher speed, but enter them at lower speeds than you do.
From which I infer, that they are basically suffering from the lack of a speedo.
Whereas the "more experienced" guys have learned to tell speeds more accurately by eyeball
(or they're smart enough to convert RPMs to groundspeed in their heads. Or do you have to cover over your tach as well?)

[burning1]

No one uses their speedo to set cornering speed unless they want to ride off the edge of the track; it's all done by eyeball and experience, even for the slower riders. A lot of it comes down to confidence.

Hey the lean angle is clearance limited?

Can't that be helped by changing the stock footrests? Those things are HUGE

I've been able to push off getting aftermarket rearsets by working on my BP. Hardly scrape them at all anymore, but yeah, with the right race tires, I'll need to free up a little more clearance.

[Barrie]

Well, that generated a lot of interest. 

Most bikes can go faster than you can handle them.

Use what you have to its Maximum.  If you want to go faster with what you have, get Good Tires, and take a Performance Driving Course.

[tb0lt]

Being able to do 107 mph with a mile long straight way doesn't make the bike fast.   
It can actually go up close to 115 (matched by the speedos on 2 cars escorting on  either side) though... with a LOOOOONG road and the rider FULLY tucked in 

[Dr.McNinja]

Whole topic of people scolding the OP for going fast. Pretty sad. Good work getting the bike up that high OP. I wouldn't do it in a GS500. The brakes and suspension scare me.

Hey the lean angle is clearance limited?

Can't that be helped by changing the stock footrests? Those things are HUGE

It's not just limited in that way. It's also limited because the noodles Suzuki gave us as stock suspension make predicting corner entry much harder from braking. Not a big deal for someone doing some chain runs on twisties or commuting to work and back, but if you try to brake hard before a turn and don't let your suspension settle before you lean you'll be in for a surprise.

[ohgood]

Being able to do 107 mph with a mile long straight way doesn't make the bike fast.   
It can actually go up close to 115 (matched by the speedos on 2 cars escorting on  either side) though... with a LOOOOONG road and the rider FULLY tucked in 

Tailwind? Turbo? Drafting?

I've GPS verified before,  115 wasn't possible.

Hell NY drz has shown 93 on the speedometer before,  still means nothing.

[gtscott]

mate was done in nsw at 200kph so 120 mph, didnt get car locked up or anything, yet instant licence suspention for 28 days(was told thats the longest on the spot suspention they can give yet it will be greatly extended when in court and the fine and sentance will be worked out then, and a court notice, so court was ment for 2 weeks later and was put off even longer so he could drive again 28 days later, then went doing 10kph over the limit decided to pull chase, had a tyre blow out, this time it was straight to lock up, no bail, in jail for 3 months before court case, and after about $18000 in court costs, legal fees etc he got a 21 month suspended sentance and no licence for 10 years

[ghostrider_23]

WOW, you gents don't play around down there do you. In the states the systems baby feeds everyone and with a good lawyer you can get out of anything here. Wish our laws were a bit stricter, maybe then we would have so many a##ho#es on the road.

Do you find that even with the laws you have ppl break them anyway?

[gtscott]

you can get away with a lot here, if you want to spend the cash for a good lawyer, if you get a legal aid appointed one, ure basiclly asking the judge to rape you. However if you pay for a decent one you can generally get a favourable outcome for most one sided things like driving offences, as in he paid almost $20K so he didnt serve his full sentance behind bars, had he not paid that and just went with legal aid then he would of been behind bars for 2 years or more, as his was driving in a manner dangerous, driving in excess of 45 kph over the posted limit. (2 counts or each), disobeaying a traffic signal, failure to stop at red light, and failure to stop when directed.

now with a new law that passed a bit after that, just failure to stop will almost garrentee jail time.

but yeah, ppl still get caught all the time.