94 Winter dismantle, clean up, & minor customize

[knowles]

I'm too slow, i pick up a torque wrench yesterday like the one in your pic at Sears for $11 on sale. if i would have known i would have picked up another one and just have you buy it from me.

[Tombstones81]

Yeah cbr thats what scratched up the other cylinders.

WELL!
bad news.....
Still leaking but slower.
and yeah I over torqued the engine nuts the last few times.

no leaks from the one same area below the cylinders.

but one leak still remains.

it looks like its coming from above the letters/numbers now (probably was before as well)


doesnt appear to be coming from above that area, so im guessing its to the sides?
my heads too dang big to stick in there with the front tire on.

SO!
hell with it!
its time for a whole new motor.....

probably going to take me until the end of the summer to locate a good direct swap within 2 or 3 hrs driving range from me ><

so thats the route im taking, unless I find an SV650 that I can finance (doubtful as im rebuilding my credit)

(edit)
thunderstorm atm just as I got done and cleaned up.
tomorrow I will take the front rim off and let it run after cleaning up all the oil.
hopefully i'll be able to specifically locate it.

but honestly.
it doesnt look good.

[cbrfxr67]

we have some uv dye that you can add to the oil, then run it,..after it starts leaking, put on the uv glasses and use the uv light and you can see a bright green glow from exactly where the dye is.  I'll send you some if you want to try it?  Or you could use a videoscope like bombsquad used in his tank restoration thread?  I got one of those too if you want to give it shot?  I hate to see you abandon all your work on this.

[Tombstones81]

thanks.
but after work tomorrow.
I am just going to clean up the engine, take off the front rim so I can get my head directly in front of the engine, then slap it with some flour to locate the leak.

honestly, if its anything but the head gasket.. the engine is then DONE!

if its leaking in the crevices behind and to the sides of that numbers/letters plate, then thats all she wrote.
as if thats happening, then I think theres something wrong with the rods u slide the cylinder and head section down on.

gfs friend wants to look at it this weekend tho.
but after so much work, I doubt he will find anything that I missed thats minor.

so saturday night after that is when I will post wanted ads on all craigslist locations within 3 hrs drive.

im not mad like I've been tho.
I've done ALL I can.
I just have some bad freakin luck.

(edit)
well I did snap some photos before I started taking it apart.
as pointless as they are, heres something to look at...











(edit)
additional note tho.
gfs other friend she spoke to also offered around $1500 to $2000 for it.
even tho he did not research, see it yet, or speak to me.

doubt he would still offer that in the end

but as I told her, after the amount of work and money i've put into this thing.
I would probably much sooner see it sit uncovered and Rust before I see someone else get lucky (unlike me) and have it running 100% with a mere few bucks.

Its just VERY hard to even consider that offer when I havnt even been able to appreciate and actually Enjoy my hard work.
and even harder to see someone else enjoy it when I REALLY wanted to.

[dropitlow88]

thanks.
but after work tomorrow.
I am just going to clean up the engine, take off the front rim so I can get my head directly in front of the engine, then slap it with some flour to locate the leak.

honestly, if its anything but the head gasket.. the engine is then DONE!

if its leaking in the crevices behind and to the sides of that numbers/letters plate, then thats all she wrote.
as if thats happening, then I think theres something wrong with the rods u slide the cylinder and head section down on.

gfs friend wants to look at it this weekend tho.
but after so much work, I doubt he will find anything that I missed thats minor.

so saturday night after that is when I will post wanted ads on all craigslist locations within 3 hrs drive.

im not mad like I've been tho.
I've done ALL I can.
I just have some bad freakin luck.

(edit)
well I did snap some photos before I started taking it apart.
as pointless as they are, heres something to look at...











(edit)
additional note tho.
gfs other friend she spoke to also offered around $1500 to $2000 for it.
even tho he did not research, see it yet, or speak to me.

doubt he would still offer that in the end

but as I told her, after the amount of work and money i've put into this thing.
I would probably much sooner see it sit uncovered and Rust before I see someone else get lucky (unlike me) and have it running 100% with a mere few bucks.

Its just VERY hard to even consider that offer when I havnt even been able to appreciate and actually Enjoy my hard work.
and even harder to see someone else enjoy it when I REALLY wanted to.

hey tomb, did you install the base gasket upside down by any chance? and what about the little neoprene washers that go between the head and cylinders? were they there? the only other thing i can think of is base warpage, which can be fixed at any good machine shop for way less than a new engine. even sourcing a new set of cylinders on fleabay would be way cheaper than a new engine. keep your patience, save your dollars and keep at it. when you finally do get it right you will have much respect for it and much knowledge gained. i'm still fighting my watering pail of a gas tank  and carbs that are driving me insane!! but i, like you could not stand to see someone else having a blast on it when i wasn't ready to get rid of it. Your persistence will pay off. no throwing in the towel when the finish line is in sight. You'll figure it out 

[knowles]

thanks.
but after work tomorrow.
I am just going to clean up the engine, take off the front rim so I can get my head directly in front of the engine, then slap it with some flour to locate the leak.

honestly, if its anything but the head gasket.. the engine is then DONE!

if its leaking in the crevices behind and to the sides of that numbers/letters plate, then thats all she wrote.
as if thats happening, then I think theres something wrong with the rods u slide the cylinder and head section down on.

gfs friend wants to look at it this weekend tho.
but after so much work, I doubt he will find anything that I missed thats minor.

so saturday night after that is when I will post wanted ads on all craigslist locations within 3 hrs drive.

im not mad like I've been tho.
I've done ALL I can.
I just have some bad freakin luck.

(edit)
well I did snap some photos before I started taking it apart.
as pointless as they are, heres something to look at...











(edit)
additional note tho.
gfs other friend she spoke to also offered around $1500 to $2000 for it.
even tho he did not research, see it yet, or speak to me.

doubt he would still offer that in the end

but as I told her, after the amount of work and money i've put into this thing.
I would probably much sooner see it sit uncovered and Rust before I see someone else get lucky (unlike me) and have it running 100% with a mere few bucks.

Its just VERY hard to even consider that offer when I havnt even been able to appreciate and actually Enjoy my hard work.
and even harder to see someone else enjoy it when I REALLY wanted to.

hey tomb, did you install the base gasket upside down by any chance? and what about the little neoprene washers that go between the head and cylinders? were they there? the only other thing i can think of is base warpage, which can be fixed at any good machine shop for way less than a new engine. even sourcing a new set of cylinders on fleabay would be way cheaper than a new engine. keep your patience, save your dollars and keep at it. when you finally do get it right you will have much respect for it and much knowledge gained. i'm still fighting my watering pail of a gas tank  and carbs that are driving me insane!! but i, like you could not stand to see someone else having a blast on it when i wasn't ready to get rid of it. Your persistence will pay off. no throwing in the towel when the finish line is in sight. You'll figure it out 

I still got my tank for sale

[cbrfxr67]

Good words from dropit.  And those pics look so nice.  I don't like it when a bunch of accessories get added into the paint mix, but it looks right tomb.  You pulled it off.  Don't give up on it. 
Like mine, it wouldn't start for crap this weekend and I felt that tomb rage coming on, but I'm going to keep at it till I get it.  My jacka** tank issue has been going on for longer than I want to remember but I'm going to get it too. 
It's your build and your time but I'm hoping you'll keep at it.

[Funderb]

I'm sorry, but I must leave you with a screechy rendition:

DONT STOP- BELIEEEVIN'- HOLD ON TO THAT FEEE-EEEEE-EEAHLIN!


Seriously. Its an oil leak, you got dis.

[ninjeff]

GAH! Tomb! You're breakin my heart man.

Keep at it dude!

[Tombstones81]

hahahahaha
all the gaskets are installed correctly.
I would bash my head off a wall if I mixed something up in the upper part of the engine at this point.
Also, the little O rings are brand new and installed correctly. (they are what held up my order from the dealer)

Well I did make progress yesterday.
the lower cylinder gasket isnt leaking. hahaha

didnt go over it this morning to find the exact location of the leak.
too tired after work.

I did tho, put some liquid gasket on the sections I think are leaking.
the tube was cold from being outside so it didnt run all over at all.
so it should be nice and dry by the time I wake up and start her up.

mainly did that just because I want to at Least get  a day or two of riding in to calm me down to keep pushing forward.

but if there is no leaks for however length of time, then I will have narrowed down the leak location.

I just hope its something stupid like the upper cylinder gasket now... hahaha

and not the rod locations that go through the upper engine.

because for how many times i've taken it apart... maybe one or some got bent and thats causing it.

we'll see.

but im still going to keep an eye out for another engine.
even if this one ends well, I just dont trust it now and not sure I ever will.

(edit)
and I know its "only an oil leak"

but when I do everything over and over and over and over again and end up doing it 100% for certain the last time...
Im starting to think its more then "Just a leak"
at this point im almost convinced theres something majorly wrong that im missing.

which sucks because mechanically, everytime I put her back together, she runs GREAT!

[Tombstones81]

okay!
things are looking up atm.

found the oil leak.

bad news, its going to cost me to eliminate ALL possibilities.
probably like $120 to $150 on Friday.

http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=59643.0

going to replace the cylinder gaskets again since I have to take it apart AGAIN!
need new copper washers. (ones below engine bolts)
and new rods just incase they are not straight and true anymore from all the engine work.
http://www.cheapcycleparts.com/model_years/3546-suzuki-1994--gs500e/assemblies/124878
getting Four #2's and #3's.

Might be just the front middle 2 leaking because of the rods or washers, but im going to be safe and replace them ALL.

is she leaks after ALL of that....
then there literally WILL be absolutely Nothing else I can do.
and Will be replaced.

(edit)
ugh only thing I hate about that...
if I double or a lil more then double that cost.. I could just replace the motor.. hahahaha

would have to get lucky locally first tho, which isnt me. haha

[Big Rich]

I haven't taken the cylinder studs out of a "new" motor like yours, but they can be tight as heck. If you get one that doesn't break loose easily, either take it to a shop or leave it and hope for the best.........

[Tombstones81]

^^ yeah.
actually first I am going to see if they are all still straight before I spend money I might not have to.

will be taking it apart again tomorrow or thursday after work.
whenever im in the mood to.

I wanna pin this down as a what I have to buy to fix, or put it aside as spare parts and put money away for a new motor.
before I go buying anything I dont have to.

[dropitlow88]

^^ yeah.
actually first I am going to see if they are all still straight before I spend money I might not have to.

will be taking it apart again tomorrow or thursday after work.
whenever im in the mood to.

I wanna pin this down as a what I have to buy to fix, or put it aside as spare parts and put money away for a new motor.
before I go buying anything I dont have to.

heres my new and improved idea. buy a quart of boat gel coat, spray the entire engine with 3 coats and enjoy! Lol. just kidding. Those copper washers are the culprit. Studs straight or not. Wren you torque them down the force between the washer and the head/nut will seal off any irregularitys (with new copper washers of course). Copper is very soft and malleable. It doesn't take much to make a seal, also why they can't be used again. Dab some engine oil on them when you install to keep things moving smoothly and keep them from scuffing. You'll be back on the road in no time.

[Tombstones81]

Yea I've been thinking there is nothing else it could possibly be.

IF everything is 100% and im not missing anything.

I've been told multiple things and my heads starting to spin actually.

Keep being told replace the washers.
Then im being told those and the rods wouldnt cause an oil leak in that location.

but its leaking right where the 2 middle front rods go up through the cylinders on the bottom.

so if the engine isnt Funked, I can only come up with the washers and/or rods.
more then likely the washers.

I just dont know.
I wish there was someone on here that had the same issue.
as it seems im getting everyones thoughts, opinions, and knowledge instead of the best answer from hands on experience from the same issue.
Which I am grateful for, but as I said... my heads starting to spin! hahahaha 

so!
instead of taking it all apart and wasting money on all new cylinder gaskets as they are fine.
LAST attempt will be Only buying the new washers.
Then loosening up the upper half of the engine a little bit to seat better with new washers but not enough to need to replace the gaskets.
and putting the new washers in and hope for the best.

if it doesnt work.
Replacing the engine will be done.

and since the washers are cheap.
I will continue to shop and ask around for another engine.

and thanks for the color scheme compliment Cbr 
its going to look ALOT better once I get that gimbel headlight cowl painted and installed.
Those just make it look almost like a totally different bike to me, and love it!

(edit)
was on the toilet thinking... hahaha
BEST spot to do so!

If my theory is correct then it Just might be only the copper washers.

okay, I have no book education on engines.
just common sense and hands on experience.

The rods that the cylinder and head slide down on.
Oil obviously doesnt go UP them.
which got me thinking....

the oil doesnt leak right away, it takes some time before it starts to.

soooo
maybe the oil is leaking through the copper washers from the top and slowly making its way down the rods and leaking out the bottom where its open in the front of the cylinders where its been leaking that I posted pics of.

making sense?
as I didnt see anyone put it in those terms yet.

(edit)
heres a simple visual of looking at what I mean.
Oils coming through the copper washers at the top.
Flowing down the rods, which are on the Outside of the internals.
and coming out the bottom in the pic below as the arrows are pointing.



I still have yet to get my head directly in front of that spot and shine a flashlight right on it while its running tho.
to see if the oil truly is flowing Down the rods.

gotta take the front rim off first tho.
too tired atm so if I wake up early enough I will do just that.
if not, tomorrow.

(edit)
been up for like an hr and a half.
about to start storming so I guess taking the front rim off will have to wait til tomorrow morning.

(edit)
Update!

sorry boys and gals!
So far it looks like I will be replacing the motor.
Got a good deal on a running engine with what $$ I can spare this Friday.
Only problem that isnt really a problem.
Is its located near Pitt.
A lil further then I wanted but probably the Only location I would travel far to.
which is right near my brother that I have not seen in 4 years
so if everything pans out and I go to buy it, can stop by and see my bro for a night.

waiting for my dad to get here to talk about making the trip maybe this Saturday since I am off Thurs Fri Sat and Sun night.
because I just dont trust my 600 miles from 200K grand am to go that far! hahahaha

(edit again)

kk its all good!
me, the gf, and her son are headed out to Pitt first thing Sat morning.
gonna get the engine, then head to my brothers afterwards for a cookout that we had planned at her place prior to all of this.

[Big Rich]

Wow, what a long post........

Being that the bike is down for the moment anyway, why not take one of the copper washers out and go to a hardware store? At least the one near me sells generic copper washers (so obviously not OEM specs). They aren't very expensive and might be just an hour or two start to finish.

[cbrfxr67]

  Family reunion and another engine?!  Rock on tomb!

[Tombstones81]

nah on the generic copper washers.
I do plan to buy 8 new OEM ones Friday tho.
but sadly, that engine will not be in the frame when they arrive.
so I will simply put them away until I need them, if I ever do.

and hell yea cbr!
everything is lookin good.
as long as the motor is 100%, then I will be installing it on Sunday if it isnt pouring.
change the oil and filter in it, and hopefully be on the road Monday 

Reminds me as well, hopefully the gimbel cowl will be dry enough to mount Sunday as well when I paint it on Friday.

Then she will be finished to my standards for awhile.

Still want new grips, maybe new pegs, LEDs for the gauges and to illuminate the bike.
But that is FAR from being on my agenda for a few months.

Almost every extra penny I've had since I began all this in Nov has gone towards the bike.
So the engine and cowl make it complete for me to say enough is enough so I can concentrate on other things now.

(edit)
and yeah it was a long post.
I just kept editing it instead of constant bumping.

and oh yeah, forgot to say specifically why I went the motor replacement route instead of going at this one more.

In all honesty, im not giving up on it.
Its simply that my gut is telling me to replace it while I can.

Even tho Im going out to Pitt Saturday, I still plan to ride the bike out there sometime this summer.
Visit my bros family again out there and Oz from this site.
Then probably make my way down to NC to visit another friend and stop by and visit some more members omw down there. (baltimore & steezin are otw down to NC)

so a questionable motor going that far Really urks me

[Tombstones81]

gimbel headlight cowl painted and cleared. (looks Great)
just not installed yet.

chain guard clear coated and the top handlebar clamps repainted and cleared. (forgot to last time)

now im out for the day and hopefully get the engine tomorrow 

[Tombstones81]

motor was all good for not being able to test it in a frame

now sittin in the back of the suv while i relax at my bros.

azzy was a cool dude too!
def lookin forward to another person to ride with when I ride the bike out this way.

will update when I have everything installed