LED Turn Signals?

[adidasguy]

Being somewhat of an LED aficionado, I must caution you about those "LED replacement bulbs" as they are total garbage. Might as well not even have a blinker at that point.

I don't know where you come up with this. I beat you hands down when it comes to LEDs. All my indicators are LED. Tail light is LED. LED replacement bulbs are as bright, sometimes brighter than incandescent. Trucks, cars and everywhere else is going with LED replacements. My whole house and office are LED. My bike cave is loaded with LED replacement 4' tubes. No fluorescent or incandescent lights anywhere. 12v desk lamps and cabinet lights are also equipped with LED replacements. I've bought at least 15 different types of T10 LEDs for testing to find the optimum replacements in both brightness and color temperature.

I've spend the past few years buying and researching LED replacements for just about everything because I hate fluorescent bulbs and especially those garbage compact fluorescent bulbs.

Going LED replacement is the way to go. Just don't buy the cheap crappy 99 cent ones. Spend $5-$10 for good ones and you'll be glad you did.

No need to go to Radio Crap for LEDs and rig something up. That's a hard way to do it. Buy real LED replacement bulbs. They have the proper built in circuitry for voltage, current and reverse connection to protect them.

The voltage to the turn signals is not the voltage of your bike. I know - I have measured it. The stock flasher relay has a bi-metalic resistive strip - like many thermostats. Current goes through it and heats the strip due to resistance. That causes the strip to bend. When it bends enough, it opens the circuit. Then it starts to cool down and straighten out. Which it then makes the circuit and starts to heat up again and current goes through it. The process repeats. That's how the flasher relay works. It is not just a relay contact. The ones commonly used in cars are also made to be noisy (at least older ones) which is why you hear a tink-tink-tink as the contact flips open and closed. (Newer ones can be electronic and use a speaker or piezo device to make the sound so you know the turn signals is on.)

Electronic flashers, unless they have a real relay driven by a timing circuit (which they don't), will drop the voltage by at least 0.7v. That is the voltage drop across a transistor or diode. Even a fuse has a voltage drop - because it has to heat up due to resistance to make it melt when too much current passes through it.

Remember: the flasher relay is called a relay but is not a relay contact with a 12v coil. It is a different beast all together.

LED replacement bulbs are not garbage unless you buy garbage ones.

As for voltage and vibration taking out your bulbs - I already covered that a few posts ago. Read past posts and save the time of repeating what was already written. if you want those turn signals to cease going out, put in LED replacements. Problem solved forever and you can get brighter LED replacements that stock bulbs. You will have to go with an electronic flasher because LEDs do not draw enough current to make a stock flasher work correctly.

[Kijona]

Being somewhat of an LED aficionado, I must caution you about those "LED replacement bulbs" as they are total garbage. Might as well not even have a blinker at that point.

I don't know where you come up with this. I beat you hands down when it comes to LEDs. All my indicators are LED. Tail light is LED. LED replacement bulbs are as bright, sometimes brighter than incandescent. Trucks, cars and everywhere else is going with LED replacements. My whole house and office are LED. 12v desk lamps and cabinet lights are also equipped with LED replacements. I've bought at least 15 different types of T10 LEDs for testing to find the optimum replacements in both brightness and color temperature.

Going LED replacement is the way to go. Just don't buy the cheap crappy 99 cent ones. Spend $5-$10 for good ones and you'll be glad you did.

No need to go to Radio Crap for LEDs and rig something up. That's a had way to do it. Buy real LED replacement bulbs. They have the proper built in circuitry for voltage, current and reverse connection to protect them.

The voltage to the turn signals is not the voltage of your bike. I know - I have measured it. The stock flasher relay has a bi-meta;lic resistive strip - like many thermostats. Current goes through it and heats the strip due to resistance. That causes the strip to bend. When it bends enough, it opens the circuit. Then it starts to cool down and straighten out. Which it then makes the circuit and starts to heat up again and current goes through it. The process repeats. That's how the flasher relay works. It is not just a relay contact. The ones commonly used in cars are also made to be noisy (at least older ones) which is why you hear a tink-tink-tink as the contact flips open and closed. (Newer ones can be electronic and use a speaker or piezo device to make the sound so you know the turn signals is on.)

Electronic flashers, unless they have a real relay, will drop the voltage by at least 0.7v. That is the voltage drop across a transistor or diode. Even a fuse has a voltage drop - because it has to heat up due to resistance to make it melt when too much current passes through it.

LED replacement bulbs are not garbage unless you buy garbage ones.

I think you got your feathers ruffled over nothing. You're reading way too far into what I stated. When he asked about the LED replacement bulbs I assumed he meant the ones from your local auto shop that are total garbage. I wasn't bashing them all. I wasn't saying NOT to replace the signals with LED ones, I was saying not to use the ones that are crappy.

As far a relay modifying voltage, .7 volts is enough to be called "the same" for general purposes. Also, when I said that, I was saying they don't INCREASE the voltage so you should be getting roughly the same voltage into the turn signals. There was a discussion, it seemed, about there being a possibility that it was the relay causing them to blow, which is hardly possible.

Next time, please try to keep a level head without jumping down someone's throat with a big spiel about what you do or what you have. Thank you.

Edit:
Also, as far as radio shack is concerned, that's a store that most people are familiar with and can go to. Not many places, actual stores that is, have high-output LEDs readily available.

[adidasguy]

This thread reminds me of a woman who called tech support because her computer screen went dark. To shorten the story, after 10 minutes or so of trying things the tech asked her to look at the back of the computer to be sure things were plugged in. She said "Wait while I open the shades. We have a power outage and its dark in here".

Had the OP stated it was an after market unit with zero rubber dampening we would have known it was vibration killing the lamps. Stock headlamps have rubber rings on the fork mounts. Turn signals are on rubber stalks.

With no rubber dampening, all the high frequency vibrations would shake the filaments to death.

As for the statement about LED replacements being garbage - that sat the wrong way with me. I gave my background to let you know why I feel LEDs are great (experience!). If you had clarified your statement, I probably would say that auto store ones are not necessarily bad. AFter all, they sell for vehicles so they have an obligation to sell what would be DOT legal. Department stores and lamp stores can sell anything because you'd probably use those for desk lamps or kitchen lighting.

As for the flasher relay - it is not a plain relay contact. I do not like to see misinformation posted. In fact, a stock slasher due to the bi-metalic contact has almost a 2 volt drop. I measured it when I was installing my side lights and the marker lights did not go off when the turn signal LEDs were on. The company used a transistor and the voltage difference between the bike +12v and turn signal voltage was too different for the transistor to turn off the marker lights when the turn signal LEDs were on. I had to install a DIP relay in them to make them work right.

So I guess what it all comes down to is a thread that went on far too long because what the OP was using was never mentioned - ergo - we all assumed it was a problem with stock turn signals so we threw out every possible solution we could think of.

reading what the real turn signals were (after market POS in my and others opinions) and reading your misinformation and blanket statement about LEDs ruffled MY feathers. Did not intend to ruffle yours - just correct the information you posted.

[knowles]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-Replacement-Inverter-CCFL-Angel-Eyes-Halo-Rings-/120751686082
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/Motorcycle-LED-Tail-Turn-Plate-ALL-IN-ONE-Light-1-/310341350407
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HID-Bi-Xenon-Bulbs-H4-Lo-HID-Hi-Halogen-35W-8000K-/270767416827

This Is the set up that I was going to use. Universal headlight replaced with the HID-Xenon bulb with halogen high HID low beam. The headlights has the turns in it with the T10 turn signals was going to replace them with LED so I would have LED front and rear. Is this as easy as putting bulbs in universal headlight, changing flasher, and indicator light as far as LEDs go. For the HID light as you can see in link it says that you don't need a relay. I have gotten some things from them before and it was pretty good, that being said is this stuff just a piece of sh!t. 

[adidasguy]

www.SuperbrightLED.com has a T10 LED with 5, 9 or 13 LEDs. Depends on how much space you have, but I think the 9 LED units would fit and be more than bright enough.  I use them as the running light on my 2009 headlight. They are the WLED Miniature Wedge Base bulbs with High Power SMD LEDs - 360 type. Get them in amber.
http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-bin/store/index.cgi?action=DispPage&Page2Disp=%2Fmini-wedge.html

For the indicators you need a non-polarized LED for the turn signal. Polarized are OK for neutral, high beam and oil. If you have an older GS, then they fit just fine. Newer GS's use T-5 LEDs in the indicators (all use T-10 for the gauges). There is no non-polarized T-5 so the choice is shave a T-10 to fit or use 2 diodes to operate the T-5 indicator. Do you have an 89-00 GS or 2001+ GS?


When getting LEDs for the indicators, order the same color as the plastic cap. It will produce a purer color than if you order white.
See some past threads to see the different colors of LEDs. I personally do not like blue or red gauges. My prefernce is warm white. Cool white is a little blueish if you like blue. Using red or blue may not be bright enough for you and being a pure color, they are at opposite ends of the color spectrum where you may have difficulty easily focusing on them.



Cool white gauges


Warm white gauges

[knowles]

I have an 89. Those are bright as sh!t. What did you think about the HID light universal headlight idea, is this going to work.  So to be perfectly clear I do have to put a diode in with the indicator light when changing to Led turns?

Can i put the red ones in the speedo/ tac?  Did you have to us diodes or anything or is it just plug them in. I just want to make doubly sure before I do electrical stuff.

[adidasguy]

No. You do not need the diodes. Simply get a non-polarized LED (amber or green depending on what color your cap is). The T10-s fit the indicator sockets of a 1989 just fine.

Choices for non-polarized include:
WLED-xLX
WLED-x
WLED-x6
You can use non-polarized for all indicators.

The WLED-xHP5 work find in the gauges. That is in the photo of the gauge which is broken open. Due to the metal guard in the gauges, you can't have a long LED and the one shown there is what I use and used in all the sample photos.

The indicators are not as bright as they seem in the photos. They are brighter than incandescent bulbs and look really nice during the day.

I think there are some other non-polarized but would have to check my parts box. I have some of each type for testing. Its late and cold in the bike cave right now.

I have no opinion on HID headlights. For me, stock is fine. I have added Denali fog lights for added light and visibility. You see them mounted to the forks.

[Big Rich]

Adidas, you must ride through a car wash in those once a week. Kudos too you for keeping such clean machines!

2 quick questions:
1) Where do you get your diodes? Radio Shack?
2) Are those Denali lights mounted to the fork lowers?

[adidasguy]

Diodes: yep. Any diode will work as most all are rated at least 50v and current is small. Common 10 cent one is 1n4001 (last digit can be higher as  1n4002, etc.). Alternates are using one half of a full ave bridge. I think the GS500 dual diode would work, too, if you have an extra one in your parts box. Diodes only needed if using a polarized LED in the indicator.You can use them anyway. It won't make things not-work, even with incandescent indicators.

Denali's are mounted to the reflector mount on the forks. Case you guessed it, Junior (1992 Canadian) has 2009 forks. He had a fork leak and I had a nearly new set of 2009's so put in new springs and put them on. That was easy. You can mount them other places on older forks or use metal bands. Since the Denali's used the reflector spot, I added the Harley reflectors to the forks. (About $15 on ebay) I think they look cool and better than the stock 1989-2000 reflectors (and have a box full of the GS stock reflectors, too! Front and rear). There are some ready-made Denali mounting brackets available. Bought from twisted Throttle. Bandit had some metal bands for mountinmg reflectors. Those would work.  Or use a metal band to hold the Denali bracket to your older style fork. Be creative!

Use thread lock so they don't move. Takes a day or two for thread lock to set up. Adjust them sitting on the bike as that effects the aim. Directions help in positioning them. They are fantastic on poorly lit roads. On other roads, cagers have 3 points of light on your bike to see and can better judge your speed and distance.

Run them off of the headlight power. On "F"'s, it cuts out when starting (these use 1.5 amps). On older bikes, add in a headlight cut out relay when starting the bike. I can show how to do it if anyone interested, Only takes one relay and a couple connectors.

Car Wash: I use the Seattle Car Wash System (called riding in the rain!)