Trey is dying - AND NOW LIVES AGAIN!

[ghostrider_23]

Adidas,

How is it going???

Sad to see someone that helps others out so much on this forum having trouble.

Hope you discover the problem soon

[adidasguy]

With it under 40*, things are slow. Hoping for warmer weather - at least the upper 40's.

Thumb compression test done and seems OK. With 3 bikes and the build, I figured a compression tester was in order. Should be here tomorrow. Will do real compression test and re-check valve clearances again.

Will put back set of carbs with mixture at 2.5 turns (found it was a 4! Eeeeek!) and photograph the valves from the carb inputs and see if there is any obvious damage as they open and close. Found these older carbs are real easy to take on and off. 2 cables, 2 hoses and the 4 metal bands. Getting the air box seated is simple if you reach into the air box to push the rubber boots to the outside of the carbs as you push them together. (PO had the air box on wrong with air leaks and squished rubber boots).

A 1/2 gal. hanging shop fuel tank coming to make testing without the tank much easier.

I'm proceeding from the outside in - easy to hard - so the top end won't come off until deemed necessary. I only want him running OK until warmer weather at which time he will get a much needed tear down of the engine to replace all the gaskets. The PO bought a full set of gaskets - he just never put them on - and gave them to me.

I'll update as I proceed in the next few days. I am taking time to study everything since I need to know where everything goes for the bike builds. Trey was intended as a learning bike - so I guess I'm learning.

[ghostrider_23]

Holy Shazam I forgot you were way up north on the west side of town lol

I hate working in cold weather, my brain begins to slow down and when you hit your knuckles on something it seems to hurt 10x more than normal.

Still you do have a bike cave while us little ppl work outside.

[slipperymongoose]

Ok so electrically your fine, so that means you have a leak of some description somewhere. The compression tester will tell you of its your piston rings or your valves. Read up on doing the test it's been a while since I've done one but the Haynes or clymer will be able to tell you what and how to do. An oil can is handy to squirt the oil in the plug holes when your doing the test. Good luck.

[the mole]

The fact that the left cylinder runs OK with choke but not without indicates a carb problem to me. Blocked idle jet? (I know you swapped carbs.......).

[mitch79]

You have spark and you have compression (finger test). That leaves fuel.
From your description it sounds like the left side is running super lean, just enough to run on full choke.
You swapped carbs and problem remains.
My guess is you have a vacuum leak, most likely the left hand carb boot. Remove and inspect, swap them around and see if the fault follows.
Flooding carburettor is also a worry. I'd be checking float levels using the clear tube method.
That's my 2/c hope it helps

[SS Adrenaline]

You have spark and you have compression (finger test). That leaves fuel.
From your description it sounds like the left side is running super lean, just enough to run on full choke.
You swapped carbs and problem remains.
My guess is you have a vacuum leak, most likely the left hand carb boot. Remove and inspect, swap them around and see if the fault follows.
Flooding carburettor is also a worry. I'd be checking float levels using the clear tube method.
That's my 2/c hope it helps

X2, keep going, were in this together..

[adidasguy]

Got a MotionPro compression meter in today.
Although engine was cold, 140psi left and 145psi right.
They both held the pressure for 20 seconds or so until I released the pressure and disconnected the meter. I know engine is supposed to be hot, but the fact that both had high compression I think means the engine is OK.
Now to put carbs back on adjusted correctly and to check for strong spark.
Quite possible there is spark, but weak due to a wiring issue. I did swap CDI's, coils and plugs.
Oh, I got a spark tester. I'll go see what that does!

[Jared]

Ok...

Good compression and spark...

Have you physically removed the pilot jets etc from the carbs and cleaned out all the orifices in the carb bodies etc. yet?

Take one carb bowl off at a time-You already replaced the needle valve/seats yes? Pull the pilot jet out and see if you can see through it. If you can...blow some carb cleaner through it  just to make sure it's clean. If you can't-- take a wire brush and pluck a bristle out (brass..not steel..) and poke through the crud (don't use a drill bit..)  then blast it out til it's clean and reinstall it. Pull the main jet off and make sure it's clean -take the  top of the carb off  pull the jet needle etc out/ diaphragm too. Clean out the little orifices/air passages in the carb body (shoot carb cleaner through them..use a little compressed air to blow the cleaner etc out ( eye protection is a good idea..).
Check the diaphragm for any holes etc while it's out...Clean the needle jet if it's cruddy... Put everything back where it goes ( remember the little oring on the carb top..) after it's all clean.


Put the float in a bowl of water and check it for holes.. if it's all good put it all back together as it came out - Check your Float level (Clymer manual shows you how...pretty easy) and adjust as necessary. Close it up and do the other carb.

One last suggestion...just for piece of mind- put fresh spark plugs in it. I've had  plugs look fine and not work well.
Hard to Diagnose from 3000 miles away.

[adidasguy]

Butter my butt and call me a biscuit.

I feel like a rubber nosed woodpecker in a petrified forest.

I swear I couldn't find my own butt with two hands and a search warrant.

Well HE'S ALIVE!

Read on.....

First, thanks to everyone for their suggestions.  You guys are smarter than a tree full of owls! I did a lot, bought lots of tools and learned a lot. Now that he's running again, I can clean him up and wait until spring for the full tear down of the engine.

Again, thanks to everyone.  After solving it, all this seems like a trick question on a game show.

so......  I did the compression test. All was OK. Tried out the Motion Pro spark tester. Both sides sparked really well. Though with the spark plugs testing a few days ago, it was intermittent but I chalked that up to a bad ground on the painted engine block (hint hint!). Connected up the Motion Pro shop 1/2 gal tank so I could start the engine. Yea, it was cold but somehow I was on a roll and had fun using the new tools.

So next I put the plugs back in. They were marked left and right so I reversed them (I often do things like that for testing and giggles). Started it up after a few cranks (thank god for LiFe batteries - that sucker is still cranking after all this testing!  ).

Tried the usual test and pulled the left plug wire and guess what? The engine died! WTF! The left side was bad. Started back up. Pulled the right. WTF! No change! Well, grab another plug for the right.

HE WORKS! 

What are the odds of 2 out of 4 nearly new plugs going bad? 

That's right - 2 out of 4 nearly new plugs went bad. I don't think anyone would have guessed that. Spark (though a little intermittent) when watching the plug out of block with the bike running. Makes me feel like I couldn't pour rain out of a boot if the instructions were written on the heel. 

Saturday I will go back through all the suggestions and work to get everything on Trey working right. Carbs will be correctly adjusted. All hoses checked and tightened. And then it should fix the hanging idle. Yes, he does that but he LIVES! Hanging idle should be easy once properly adjusted carbs are on him. Needs new throttle cable, too. Though to be honest about that, he always had a slight hanging idle when warmed up. Time to fix that!

So tie me to a pig and roll me in the mud 

[twinrat]

so what brand of spark plugs were they .ive always had excellant results with what the manual recomends.

[adidasguy]

Just our common every day NKG  DPR8EA-9
Its a fluke. Probably will never happen again.
Went to check the plug numbers and started him up again with no choke and what gas was left in the carbs.
Kinda makes me feel as sharp as mashed potatoes. 

Then..... I DID put on the new SS chain guard to take a picture. Could that be all he needed? Just some love and attention?

I bet even Buddha wouldn't have guessed 2 out of 4 bad spark plugs  and then intermittent. That still makes it puzzling that the left cylinder with a bad plug worked with the choke on. Is that a weak spark symptom? Seems we have a mystery to solve 

Realistically, how often does a spark plug go bad (ok, let's say marginally defective)? and not in a burnt out way, but internally defective?

[Jared]

I asked if you put new plugs in in my first reply (thought you had)....   Then suggested it ^^^^ there.

Glad it's running now.

Why tear down the engine..(gaskets leaking??) ...you have 145 compression cold...Warm the engine and do a real compression check and see what you have.

[ghostrider_23]

Adidas,

That's why we're here. One person has only so much knowledge, but a collection of people is like a virgin male in a whore house and a pocket full of money. lol OK, I am not as good as you are on the metaphors and I do appreciate your input:

I feel like a rubber nosed woodpecker in a petrified forest.

I swear I couldn't find my own butt with two hands and a search warrant.

Made me laugh so hard I almost spilled my coffee

On a serious note, glad to hear he's running and you learned alot while doing so.

Are you still planning on coming to Florida???

[adidasguy]

Still planning for Feb or march.

2 bad spark plugs: Tie me to an anthill and fill my ears with jelley!

[adidasguy]

I asked if you put new plugs in in my first reply (thought you had)....   Then suggested it ^^^^ there.

Glad it's running now.

Why tear down the engine..(gaskets leaking??) ...you have 145 compression cold...Warm the engine and do a real compression check and see what you have.

I did replace plugs per your suggestion. So one in that pair was also bad. Didn't pull plug wires until the second set was in. WTF! Bad plug in each set. Going to toss all 4 and put in fresh ones. Then found the mixture was 4 turns out. Going back to 2-1/2 turns and go from there.
Trey is marking his territory. So needs to have top taken off to replace gaskets. Might be just the cam tensioner. Have gasket and a new one coming. Otherwise it looks like the bottom of the jugs. Only a drip or two so no emergency.

[reload]

oh nice congrats. when the bike is stubborn you just have to be stubborn right back at it and eventually one of you will win.

[scottychop]

Plugs.  I think i suggested that first as well...

Congrats man.

[steezin_and_wheezin]

i think i was the first to think it was plugs!

glad he's back up and running. now get that huger on the new chain guard and give us a photo

[adidasguy]

I DID swap plugs! WTF! 2 bad plugs! Never would have though that AND both bad plugs put in the left side? What are the odds?
Plugs weren't fouled or had any signs of a problem. The defect was internal inside the plug. That's what made it confusing. Points on the plug looked just fine.

Then it WOULD run on the left cylinder with full choke. So that would imply the plug was good. Seems it had a weak spark? Running that way would make most of us think it was not the spark plug itself. How could one cylinder run with a broken spark plug?