Oil change

[twocool]

Torque wrench now there's an idea. What would the torque spec be on those bolts O-migthy wise one 

The service manual says 14-1/2 ~ 18 lb-ft for the oil drain plug.

The owners manual says "tighten securely" for the filter cover acorn nuts....WTF?

The service manual gives NO torque spec for the oil filter cover nuts...but.....They do give a chart for "bolts" otherwise not listed:

For "conventional material" or marked "4"  (not high strength or hardened material)

4MM  0.7 ~1.5 lb.ft
5MM  1.5 ~ 3.0
6MM  3.0 ~ 5.0
8mm 7.0~ 11.5

Now remember that is for the diameter of the bolt shank, not the wrench size for the head.

The oil filter cover is held on with nuts, rather than bolts, but I think you would be safe with the torque specs above.   I forget what size the studs are..but measure and use the chart above.... should be OK...

Use the lower of the range if possible.


Cookie

[Adfalchius]

I believe there's really no reason to get out a torque wrench or anything. It's all about the feel. How will guys ever learn without doing it by feel?

Maybe you're just referring to the oil cover nuts- I think the majority of us do that by hand, but otherwise I can't tell how many ft-lbs I'm applying just 'by feel'.  I was taught the easy, stress-free way....to use my torque wrench where the manual tells me to.  And I'll probably use it the next time I change my oil for good measure.

[ghostrider_23]

I would have figured the nuts would need to be torqued in inch pounds like an intake manifold

[Dr.McNinja]

I do it like Kijona's pic shows except I choke it up a bit more with the extension between my index and center fingers.  Have always used a 3/8 ratchet, 3"extension, and deep socket.  Must have done at least 40 oil changes in the last 13 years and 170k GS500/E miles without breaking one of those studs. 

And I also preferred the bigger 22 mm head on the drain plug that my 97 had rather than the 17 mm head on my 02 drain plug.  I had an old 13/16" Snap-On deep sparkplug socket that fit the 22 mm plug head perfectly.  I could push it on the drain plug and it was snug enough to just hang there.  The snugger it fits the less likely you are to slip and round the plug head.

Well, the only reason I don't like the 22mm is because I don't have a really high quality 22mm or 13/16" socket. Guess I could buy one.

I believe there's really no reason to get out a torque wrench or anything. It's all about the feel. How will guys ever learn without doing it by feel?

I don't like to feel my way to the hospital when it comes to something I could get seriously injured with if it's not correct. It's not only expensive, it's retarded. A junior level mechanic has a torque wrench at his disposal. Only shady garage mechanics don't do things by manufacturer specs.

Sorry, but I feel very strongly about giving people absolutely terrible advice. Torque wrenches are cheap, hospital visits aren't. Granted your bike won't high side over a loose oil pan bolt - if they get in the habit of "spot tightening" important things like handlebar fasteners, lever fasteners, forks, etc, eventually something will fail catastrophically.

[Kijona]

I do it like Kijona's pic shows except I choke it up a bit more with the extension between my index and center fingers.  Have always used a 3/8 ratchet, 3"extension, and deep socket.  Must have done at least 40 oil changes in the last 13 years and 170k GS500/E miles without breaking one of those studs. 

And I also preferred the bigger 22 mm head on the drain plug that my 97 had rather than the 17 mm head on my 02 drain plug.  I had an old 13/16" Snap-On deep sparkplug socket that fit the 22 mm plug head perfectly.  I could push it on the drain plug and it was snug enough to just hang there.  The snugger it fits the less likely you are to slip and round the plug head.

Well, the only reason I don't like the 22mm is because I don't have a really high quality 22mm or 13/16" socket. Guess I could buy one.

I believe there's really no reason to get out a torque wrench or anything. It's all about the feel. How will guys ever learn without doing it by feel?

I don't like to feel my way to the hospital when it comes to something I could get seriously injured with if it's not correct. It's not only expensive, it's retarded. A junior level mechanic has a torque wrench at his disposal. Only shady garage mechanics don't do things by manufacturer specs.

Sorry, but I feel very strongly about giving people absolutely terrible advice. Torque wrenches are cheap, hospital visits aren't. Granted your bike won't high side over a loose oil pan bolt - if they get in the habit of "spot tightening" important things like handlebar fasteners, lever fasteners, forks, etc, eventually something will fail catastrophically.

You're funny. Go back to the Tard Farm you troll.

[BaltimoreGS]

Torque wrenches are cheap, hospital visits aren't...

Sorry, but I feel very strongly about giving people absolutely terrible advice.

Talk about giving terrible advice... 

A good torque wrench is not cheap, in fact it is probably the most expensive hand tool in my box.  A cheap torque wrench is worthless, I'd rather use "feel" with a regular wrench than a poor quality torque wrench.  The length of a torque wrench multiplies the force on a fastener vs. a shorter ratchet.  If the torque wrench is not accurate you might as well be tightening with a breaker bar.  And never trust a torque wrench in it's lower range limit.  At the very least pony up for a Craftsman (can be found on sale for ~$50).  Snap On and Matco are even better options if you can afford them.  Tools go on sale around Father's Day.  And every torque wrench needs to be calibrated periodically if you want to keep it accurate.  Rant end...

-Jessie

Edit:  Looks like the regular price at Sears is $80   http://www.sears.com/shc/s/s_10153_12605_Tools_Auto+%26+Mechanics+Tools_Torque+Wrenches

[Kijona]

Torque wrenches are cheap, hospital visits aren't.

A good torque wrench is not cheap, in fact it is probably the most expensive hand tool in my box.  A cheap torque wrench is worthless, I'd rather use "feel" with a regular wrench than a poor quality torque wrench.  The length of a torque wrench multiplies the force on a fastener vs. a shorter ratchet.  If the torque wrench is not accurate you might as well be tightening with a breaker bar.  And never trust a torque wrench in it's lower range limit.  At the very least pony up for a Craftsman (can be found on sale for ~$50).  Snap On and Matco are even better options if you can afford them.  Tools go on sale around Father's Day.  And every torque wrench needs to be calibrated periodically if you want to keep it accurate.  Rant end...

-Jessie

Well, I wasn't gonna feed the troll but since you are, I guess I'll put another nail in his coffin.

McNinja: Something else you should consider, genius, is the fact that using a TORQUE wrench on a DRAIN PLUG is a BAD idea. Understand? Do you know why? No...of course you don't. The reason why it's a bad idea is because you're liable to be putting almost twice the recommended torque on the plug due to the threads being heavily lubricated AND there's an aluminum crush washer on there. The crush washer is somewhat of a buffer for newbies but if you're using a torque wrench...good luck is all I can say.

Done.

[twocool]

I would have figured the nuts would need to be torqued in inch pounds like an intake manifold

OK...If you want inch pounds...multiply by 12

1 lb-ft = 12 lb-in....etc......

Most torque wrenches that are used for light torque are probably gonna read in inch pounds andyway....

Cookie

[twocool]

I do it like Kijona's pic shows except I choke it up a bit more with the extension between my index and center fingers.  Have always used a 3/8 ratchet, 3"extension, and deep socket.  Must have done at least 40 oil changes in the last 13 years and 170k GS500/E miles without breaking one of those studs. 

And I also preferred the bigger 22 mm head on the drain plug that my 97 had rather than the 17 mm head on my 02 drain plug.  I had an old 13/16" Snap-On deep sparkplug socket that fit the 22 mm plug head perfectly.  I could push it on the drain plug and it was snug enough to just hang there.  The snugger it fits the less likely you are to slip and round the plug head.

Well, the only reason I don't like the 22mm is because I don't have a really high quality 22mm or 13/16" socket. Guess I could buy one.

I believe there's really no reason to get out a torque wrench or anything. It's all about the feel. How will guys ever learn without doing it by feel?

I don't like to feel my way to the hospital when it comes to something I could get seriously injured with if it's not correct. It's not only expensive, it's retarded. A junior level mechanic has a torque wrench at his disposal. Only shady garage mechanics don't do things by manufacturer specs.

Sorry, but I feel very strongly about giving people absolutely terrible advice. Torque wrenches are cheap, hospital visits aren't. Granted your bike won't high side over a loose oil pan bolt - if they get in the habit of "spot tightening" important things like handlebar fasteners, lever fasteners, forks, etc, eventually something will fail catastrophically.

Right on !   In 40 something years of doing all kinds of mechanical work...I've never broken anything...(when I used a torque wrench.)

The cost of a good quality (you don't need great quality for a motorcycle) is less than the repair of a stripped out crankcase....probably less than replacing a stud (by the dealer) etc.  Plus it is a tool which will be usd for the rest of your life!

About once a month or so on this forum we see somebody writing in about stripped oil filter cover studs......won't happen with a torque wrench!

Also...even though the oil drail plug is going to be "oily"...if you stay to the torque spec...maybe go to the low side of the spec....you will never strip it out.

Can you do these without torque wrench?  Sure!  Oil drain plug with crush washer, you can just hit bottom, then give anouther 1/4 to 1/2 turn and "feel" the washer crush...you can see it crush too....do not tighten any more....

The oil filter cover nuts....you can "just go easy" with a nut driver or short wrench, and "feel" the o-ring set.......

BUT......using a torque wrench is the only fool proof way!  (almost fool proof anyway)

Cookie

[Kijona]

I do it like Kijona's pic shows except I choke it up a bit more with the extension between my index and center fingers.  Have always used a 3/8 ratchet, 3"extension, and deep socket.  Must have done at least 40 oil changes in the last 13 years and 170k GS500/E miles without breaking one of those studs. 

And I also preferred the bigger 22 mm head on the drain plug that my 97 had rather than the 17 mm head on my 02 drain plug.  I had an old 13/16" Snap-On deep sparkplug socket that fit the 22 mm plug head perfectly.  I could push it on the drain plug and it was snug enough to just hang there.  The snugger it fits the less likely you are to slip and round the plug head.

Well, the only reason I don't like the 22mm is because I don't have a really high quality 22mm or 13/16" socket. Guess I could buy one.

I believe there's really no reason to get out a torque wrench or anything. It's all about the feel. How will guys ever learn without doing it by feel?

I don't like to feel my way to the hospital when it comes to something I could get seriously injured with if it's not correct. It's not only expensive, it's retarded. A junior level mechanic has a torque wrench at his disposal. Only shady garage mechanics don't do things by manufacturer specs.

Sorry, but I feel very strongly about giving people absolutely terrible advice. Torque wrenches are cheap, hospital visits aren't. Granted your bike won't high side over a loose oil pan bolt - if they get in the habit of "spot tightening" important things like handlebar fasteners, lever fasteners, forks, etc, eventually something will fail catastrophically.

Right on !   In 40 something years of doing all kinds of mechanical work...I've never broken anything...(when I used a torque wrench.)

The cost of a good quality (you don't need great quality for a motorcycle) is less than the repair of a stripped out crankcase....probably less than replacing a stud (by the dealer) etc.  Plus it is a tool which will be usd for the rest of your life!

About once a month or so on this forum we see somebody writing in about stripped oil filter cover studs......won't happen with a torque wrench!

Also...even though the oil drail plug is going to be "oily"...if you stay to the torque spec...maybe go to the low side of the spec....you will never strip it out.

Can you do these without torque wrench?  Sure!  Oil drain plug with crush washer, you can just hit bottom, then give anouther 1/4 to 1/2 turn and "feel" the washer crush...you can see it crush too....do not tighten any more....

The oil filter cover nuts....you can "just go easy" with a nut driver or short wrench, and "feel" the o-ring set.......

BUT......using a torque wrench is the only fool proof way!  (almost fool proof anyway)

Cookie

Did you read Balt's post? He's actually a mechanic - and a good one at that.

I'd never trust a torque wrench on the oil filter cover - there's a high probability that a torque wrench will be off its calibration, especially if it's a cheap one. Also, even high-quality torque wrenches are not as accurate on their lower ends.

Of course I'm not trying to argue with you but it's best that newbies and torque wrenches (especially cheap ones) don't mix. Picture it: somebody that's barely ever held a screwdriver is going to try changing their oil for the first time. They go trusting an old, cheap torque wrench with the oil filter cover nuts and SNAP, there goes the stud. Where, if they followed my advice, the worst that would happen is they have oil to clean up and will have to go back and tighten them a bit more. Err on the side of caution, my friend. That's all.

[BaltimoreGS]

Twocool is also a mechanic and neither of us works on motorcycles for a living.  His opinions are just as valid as mine and everyones opinion on here (myself included) should be taken with a grain of salt.  I don't come here looking to argue with people so let's try to keep this helpful to the OP.

I stand by my statement:  I'd rather have no torque wrench than a cheap torque wrench.  An inch pound wrench is definitely necessary on a motorcycle since so many fasteners are 10 foot pounds or less.  If we are looking at this from a newb stand point I'd be worried that they wouldn't recognize the "click" of a torque wrench, especially an inch pound wrench where the click is less noticeable.  If they miss the click then they have a much longer wrench to over leverage the fastener.  If a newb is really worried I have to go with whoever suggested a nut driver.

As far as "feel", it is something you develop with experience.  Working with hand tools on a daily basis, I have developed a good feel.  I still rely on torque wrenches for important stuff like internal engine work but if I reached for a torque wrench every time I tightened something I wouldn't make any money     As a general rule of thumb, the smaller the fastener; the less torque is required to secure it.  The oil filter cover has small studs, it doesn't require much force.  My 2 cents...

-Jessie

Edit:  To practice what I preach, are there newbs that really think a video would be helpful?  If so, I'll make one when I get a chance (the '01 could stand an oil change).  I also have a junk engine I can dig out and break the oil filter studs off to make a repair video.  I probably wouldn't have time to do that for a while though.

[Paulcet]

"Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement."

[slipperymongoose]

My 2 cents here, I'm a fitter by trade and on all my cars and the GS I've never torqued drain plugs, oil filter cover bolts etc, for me it's a firm nip up aka not swinging off the spanner. I only torque the important stuff like clutches, heads, bearing housings, axle nuts etc. Using a bit of logic is your best tool here. If the bolt is small like only using a 8mm or 10mm or even 12mm socket you don't need to swing off it or put a whole lot of torque on it. These bolts aren't designed for big torque loads.

[Twisted]

Lmao @ this thread. Stop fighting or Buddha will turn the forum off again!

The service manual says 14-1/2 ~ 18 lb-ft for the oil drain plug.

4MM  0.7 ~1.5 lb.ft
5MM  1.5 ~ 3.0
6MM  3.0 ~ 5.0
8mm 7.0~ 11.5

Can I ask why the manual gives the torque specs in lb.ft when the GS uses the metric system? Or is the manual American?

[slipperymongoose]

I haven't seen a clymer manual, it's specs might be imperial, but my Haynes is all in metric.

[ghostrider_23]

BaltimoreGS,

A video on rejetting carbs would be the best but I don't know why no one has or doesn't want to make one 

[BaltimoreGS]

I actually have a parts bike that would be great to do a bunch of videos off of, it's all just a matter of time.  I bought it for the '89 handle bar set up to use on another project and it has been sitting ever since.  I never checked the engine or carbs to see if they are any good.  The biggest problem with videos is it makes the project take 4x longer than it normally would     I'm in the process of editing a top end rebuild video at the moment.  Spent an hour uploading the first part to youtube only to find it was too long   

-Jessie

[Adfalchius]

it's best that newbies and torque wrenches (especially cheap ones) don't mix.

Like McNinja/Cookie said, a torque wrench is a lot cheaper than paying for broken parts and hospital bills.  I learned how to use one as a newbie, and I'm glad I did, because I didn't (and still don't, or ever will) have the experience to do things by 'feel' like a mechanic.  I think for anybody who is going to work on their bike (newbie or not), a good torque wrench is an excellent/responsible investment, provided that one knows the proper care, use and maintenance. 

BaltimoreGS- you taught me how to use torque wrenches and I didn't have issues hearing/feeling the clicks.  For any newbie who is nervous or unsure, just go find a mechanic to show you or practice on some scrap until you feel confident.  Oh, and the best advice: "consult the manual".

[Dr.McNinja]

Summarizing a long drawn out post:

I recommended that a torque wrench is a good GENERAL idea. I'm called a troll and no one does ANYTHING in the way of actually answering the question so let me (the troll) help him out:


The way I've been doing it is 1/4 turn past hand tight. I read this somewhere, and I'm sure it derives from the manual. I don't have my Hayne's manual lying around or else I'd help you more by giving what they recommend. I haven't had my oil pan bolt or filter retainer fasteners come loose yet. Basically, if you wanted, you can still use a torque wrench but it's important to note that inch-lbs should be used. I'm a firm believer that a torque wrench is the only way, and the only reason I don't use a torque wrench on my oil pan bolt and filter retainer caps is because I don't have one in inch-lbs yet.

[slipperymongoose]

The way I've been doing it is 1/4 turn past hand tight. I read this somewhere, and I'm sure it derives from the manual.

I think spark plugs also tell you to do that, but that bit of advise is good. That will save alot of stripped oil filter cover nuts and sump plugs.