Bike will not turn over??

[deaconsfan]

I just finished cleaning out the garage and figured I'd start the bike and let it run a little since it has been put away for the last few months. Hit the button and nothing...not even trying to turn over. I double checked to make sure the kill switch was on, checked the battery (12.6 volts on showing on the voltmeter), made sure the bike was in neutral. The headlight dimmed like it has always done when it starts up, but I'm getting nothing. Any ideas? I have a feeling it's something really stupid that I'm overlooking!

[Shepa]

The one and only time that happened to mine, it was hydrolocked by fuel flood overnight.


Check your oil level, and sniff the oil (if it smells like petrol that's it).

I hope it's not the case, but you never know...

[twocool]

I just finished cleaning out the garage and figured I'd start the bike and let it run a little since it has been put away for the last few months. Hit the button and nothing...not even trying to turn over. I double checked to make sure the kill switch was on, checked the battery (12.6 volts on showing on the voltmeter), made sure the bike was in neutral. The headlight dimmed like it has always done when it starts up, but I'm getting nothing. Any ideas? I have a feeling it's something really stupid that I'm overlooking!

I would still suspect weak battery...

12.6 may actually be low for a battery.  12 V is "nominal" but a fully charged battery will be more like over 13V  The charging system is typically 13.8 V.  We sometimes actually call this a 14 V system.

When a lead acid battery drops to 12v even, it is considered "dead".

Also checking voltage without load on the battery tells you little.  It could read fine, like 13 or so, but as soon as you put on a load, lights, or starter, it may drop to way below 12.

I'm not sure what electronics are in the GS500, but many modern devices will just "shut down" if less than proper voltage is applied..

In winter I put on a battery tender.....cold weather can also cut the "cranking amps" to 1/2....

Cookie

[Dizzledan]

Did you remove the starter cable on the right side of the bike for any reason? I'd check there first. Then I would check to see if the actual starter button has a short in the wiring.

[adidasguy]

Did you pull in the clutch lever?

[Kijona]

Here's a helpful thread:
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=58746.0

Quote from that thread:

hey guys,  all of my posts have been for silly questions but again im new and inexperienced.

I went to start my gs the other day and the engine turned over for a sec and the battery died. I recharged the battery overnight and when I went to turn it on I got nothing, zero. The engine cut off switch was on, everything seems in order, I even changed the fuse that didnt need changing but it was old so I figured what the heck. Im getting nothing so the problem has to be electrical but everything I checked was good so im confused as whats going on. I even tried to bump it and I get a quick turnover and then nothing

Read his thread and you'll find it ended up being his clutch switch. Could also be the kickstand switch.

Good luck.

[deaconsfan]

I tried to jump the bike off as well and still got nothing. I went and put the battery charger on the bike and once it was fully charged I tested the voltage again... 13.7v. I turned the switch on and the voltage dropped to around 10.6v, and when I pushed the starter button the voltage increased to around 11.6v

I haven't messed with anything on the bike since I last rode it, and yeah I pulled in the clutch lever. I'll check the other thread for suggestions

Thanks.

[adidasguy]

OK. Voltage will go up when starter pressed on newer bikes because they cut the headlight.
You have electricity, so fuse is OK.
Only thing wrong now would be starter relay or connections to  it, or wire broken to the starter motor. About a 5 minute check - at most. Get out your wiring diagram and your volt meter (oh, you got one!) and start tracing the starter relay.
You can jump the starter relay with a  screwdriver. Be sure bike is in neutral when you do it.

Still could be a problem with the clutch switch (short it or check it with your meter) or neutral switch. Unlikely, but could be the dual diode or side stand relay. Those things can prevent the bike from running.

[twocool]

I tried to jump the bike off as well and still got nothing. I went and put the battery charger on the bike and once it was fully charged I tested the voltage again... 13.7v. I turned the switch on and the voltage dropped to around 10.6v, and when I pushed the starter button the voltage increased to around 11.6v

I haven't messed with anything on the bike since I last rode it, and yeah I pulled in the clutch lever. I'll check the other thread for suggestions

Thanks.

Well, not being there, I'm just guessing...but 10.6 v with just the lights on is a dead battery.  The 13+v, with no load is a meaningless reading....Surprised the jump didn't work, but a really dead battery will sometimes make a jump not work.  But then again, there may be something which made the battery dead..like short, or some of the stuff listed in the other posts...

Cookie

[adidasguy]

10.6v is bad. Defective cell in the battery.
Did a test. 13.1v down to 12.6 with just lights on. That sounds about right.
Even a defective battery shouldn't prevent a jump start.
Take the meter and start tracing things.
.....and get a new battery. Go Shorai and eliminate any headaches from your battery forever.

[Kijona]

I really think he'd be well-advised to check his clutch switch and kickstand switches first. Bridging them, even temporarily, will eliminate them from the equation.

[adidasguy]

I really think he'd be well-advised to check his clutch switch and kickstand switches first. Bridging them, even temporarily, will eliminate them from the equation.

true. The starter relay should at least "click" when starter is pressed.

[twocool]

FWIW.....Battery test information...

Chart above shows typical battery discharge with load.  Turning the key to "on", with lights etc.... I figure the load to be roughly 3 or 4 amps......

The OEM battery is 11 amp hours, so the "C" in this graph is about .3 or .4....

The graph show that with this load, a "good" battery will show more than 12 volts, (like 12.5 or so)and will maintain more than 12 volts for about 40 minutes.........Even with heavy amp load...the battery still remains above 12V for a while...only extreme amp load wil pull the battery below 12V right away...

Even though a battery may come off the charger and read 13 volts or more, with load applied,
if the voltage drops below 12 v in just a few seconds...no good  battery....

We use 9 AH sla batteries in all of our fleet of gliders.  There is no charging system, so we have to run all the electronics, radios, navigation, and communication from pure battery power....

I made a cheap ass test rig to make sure the batteries are up to snuff.  I simply charge the battery overnight, then attach an automobile headlight (55 watts) and also attach a volt meter.  I take a voltage reading every minute for the first 1/2 hour, and then time it untill the voltage goes below 12....Then chart it on a graph similar to the graph above...

On a "good" battery, it will read over 13 just off the charger. When you attach the headlight, it will drop to something like 12.6 or so.....It will then loose voltage very slowly and evenly for 1/2 hour to 1 hour or so...staying above 12 v ....then it will start loosing voltage quickly and drop below 12 and keep going down rapidly.

A crap battery will also start out above 13 v....and attaching the headlight will drop it to about 12.5 or so...but it will quickly drop below 12 V in a matter of minutes or seconds..

We can run this test periodically on the same battery...the graph will come out almost the same every time, if the battery is still good.  But as the battery gets old, and worn out from use and many charge cycles, you can see changes in the graph, and know it's time for a new battery, before it craps out all together, at a time when you are counting on it!

Cookie

[Kijona]

FWIW.....Battery test information...

Chart above shows typical battery discharge with load.  Turning the key to "on", with lights etc.... I figure the load to be roughly 3 or 4 amps......

The OEM battery is 11 amp hours, so the "C" in this graph is about .3 or .4....

The graph show that with this load, a "good" battery will show more than 12 volts, (like 12.5 or so)and will maintain more than 12 volts for about 40 minutes.........Even with heavy amp load...the battery still remains above 12V for a while...only extreme amp load wil pull the battery below 12V right away...

Even though a battery may come off the charger and read 13 volts or more, with load applied,
if the voltage drops below 12 v in just a few seconds...no good  battery....

We use 9 AH sla batteries in all of our fleet of gliders.  There is no charging system, so we have to run all the electronics, radios, navigation, and communication from pure battery power....

I made a cheap ass test rig to make sure the batteries are up to snuff.  I simply charge the battery overnight, then attach an automobile headlight (55 watts) and also attach a volt meter.  I take a voltage reading every minute for the first 1/2 hour, and then time it untill the voltage goes below 12....Then chart it on a graph similar to the graph above...

On a "good" battery, it will read over 13 just off the charger. When you attach the headlight, it will drop to something like 12.6 or so.....It will then loose voltage very slowly and evenly for 1/2 hour to 1 hour or so...staying above 12 v ....then it will start loosing voltage quickly and drop below 12 and keep going down rapidly.

A crap battery will also start out above 13 v....and attaching the headlight will drop it to about 12.5 or so...but it will quickly drop below 12 V in a matter of minutes or seconds..

We can run this test periodically on the same battery...the graph will come out almost the same every time, if the battery is still good.  But as the battery gets old, and worn out from use and many charge cycles, you can see changes in the graph, and know it's time for a new battery, before it craps out all together, at a time when you are counting on it!

Cookie

Hey dude that's pretty cool. Thanks for sharing!

[Paulcet]

Chart above shows typical battery discharge with load.  Turning the key to "on", with lights etc.... I figure the load to be roughly 3 or 4 amps......

The OEM battery is 11 amp hours, so the "C" in this graph is about .3 or .4....

Just picking nits here, but the "C" in the graph is the discharge rating in Amp-Hours over some specified period of time (typically 10 or 20 hours).  Our standard battery is 11 ah over 10 hours, so C=11.  Although that 10 hour figure may vary by manufacturer**.  So the line to look at in the graph is the one marked 0.4C, or an imaginary one between 0.4C and 0.2C.  I guess that's what Cookie was saying, just in a different way.

**So if it's over 10 hours, the battery will deliver 1.1 amp for the full 10 hours.  I suspect many cheaper battery discharge ratings are stretched out over 20 hours.

[twocool]

Chart above shows typical battery discharge with load.  Turning the key to "on", with lights etc.... I figure the load to be roughly 3 or 4 amps......

The OEM battery is 11 amp hours, so the "C" in this graph is about .3 or .4....

Just picking nits here, but the "C" in the graph is the discharge rating in Amp-Hours over some specified period of time (typically 10 or 20 hours).  Our standard battery is 11 ah over 10 hours, so C=11.  Although that 10 hour figure may vary by manufacturer**.  So the line to look at in the graph is the one marked 0.4C, or an imaginary one between 0.4C and 0.2C.  I guess that's what Cookie was saying, just in a different way.

**So if it's over 10 hours, the battery will deliver 1.1 amp for the full 10 hours.  I suspect many cheaper battery discharge ratings are stretched out over 20 hours.

No you're not picking nits...you explained it pretty well....

Yes "c" is the so-called capicity of the battery...so our 11 Amp-hour battereis should, theoretically give us one amp for 11 hours, or 11 amps for one hour, or 1/2 amp for 22 hours.....

But it doesn't really quite work out that way.  The higher the amp draw, the less actual amp hours you're gonna get.  And at low amp draw you may exceed the rated amp hours...

I'm sure that different maunfacturers use different rating methods...I like powersonic..that's where I got this chart.....if interested, go to powersonic web site and download technical manual...more than you would ever want to know about LSA batteries..

Alsonote ...they (the manufacturers) run the battery way down, to like 10.5 V .....below what is practical, and could also damage the battery.  So you can't rely on the Amp hour Rating...

just as a rough rule of thumb, to account for all that above, I cut the "rated" amp hours in half..so I would figure an 11 AH battery would be good for 1 amp for 5-1/2 hours, not 11 hours...(once a SLA battery is 12 V or less it is considered "discharged", although it may be only 60% discharged...it is in need of recharge at that point..

But to be honest, the chart I gave is for SLA batteries....designed for deep discharge....

Motorcycle and car batteries are designed differently...to give a big amp draw, all at once, up front, for a very short perod of time (couple seconds) and then get recharged from the charging circuit....Not really intended for long time discharge...

Marine, and RV batteries are also deep cycle batteries.....

But the who deal with showing the chart is to get a feel for the discharge curve of a lead acid battery..and how it will hold above 12 V for quite a while, before dipping down...

The battery in question from the OP seemed to dip to under 12 volts is a matter of seconds...bad battery.... or huge amp draw somewhere..

Cookie

[adidasguy]

This thread has bee hijacked.
Put batteries somewhere else.
We need to hear back from the OP on the problem of not turning over.

[deaconsfan]

Alright, the battery is shot. I don't know what happened the first time, but I tired jumping it off again after checking all the safety switches and got it going. Thanks for all the help...time for a new battery.

[adidasguy]

Do yourself a favor (and your bike) and spring for the Shorai for $150. Think of it as an investment. Probably never have to replace it again and you'll never go through all this again. Isn't peace of mind and the ability to ride worth the few extra bucks?

We see threads of people that buy cheap batteries and are always having battery problems and complain they always need a battery  tender. In this case, you get what you pay for.

[bigfatcat]

Do yourself a favor (and your bike) and spring for the Shorai for $150. Think of it as an investment. Probably never have to replace it again and you'll never go through all this again. Isn't peace of mind and the ability to ride worth the few extra bucks?

We see threads of people that buy cheap batteries and are always having battery problems and complain they always need a battery  tender. In this case, you get what you pay for.

+ 1  on this - the cheap batteries from the likes of walmart, autozone, advance auto etc always seemed for me  to need supplemental charging even when new (even though bike charging system is confirmed 'good'.)