Need some Carb explanations. Jets, turns out......ohhh my.

[SS Adrenaline]

Hey there gents and ladies, I have a few questions about my carb that I need explained to me.  First off its a 2006 carb from Canada so it has a 3 jet system, pilot, mid main, main.  My first question is this:

1:  Where the heck is this mid main jet that everyone talks about.  I have a Haynes manual and no where does it say mid main.  All the jets that it lists are pilot jet, pilot air jet, needle jet, jet needle, main jet, main air jet, and starter jet. 
Could the starter jet be the same as the mid main jet.  If it is where the neck is the little guy?  I dont think my manual shows me this.?

2:  My second question is about this turns out that people talk about.  For instance 3 turns out.  Is this the pilot screw setting that is being talked about?  If it is my manual says that all US models are pre-set.  This is the only thing I have found that gives me a spec on something turns out.   
Im not sure where to go from here?  Im going to be making some mods and will need to rejet.  Im trying to have a good understanding of this now so that Im ready for the changes.

For info on my mods I will be putting on a Jardine full exhaust with a K&N Lunch box.  The jetting that I would like to start with based on my research is: 22.5 pilot, 65 mid main, 147.5 main. with 3 turns out.

Please help me understand this. 
Thanks

[Kijona]

Hey there gents and ladies, I have a few questions about my carb that I need explained to me.  First off its a 2006 carb from Canada so it has a 3 jet system, pilot, mid main, main.  My first question is this:

1:  Where the heck is this mid main jet that everyone talks about.  I have a Haynes manual and no where does it say mid main.  All the jets that it lists are pilot jet, pilot air jet, needle jet, jet needle, main jet, main air jet, and starter jet. 
Could the starter jet be the same as the mid main jet.  If it is where the neck is the little guy?  I dont think my manual shows me this.?

2:  My second question is about this turns out that people talk about.  For instance 3 turns out.  Is this the pilot screw setting that is being talked about?  If it is my manual says that all US models are pre-set.  This is the only thing I have found that gives me a spec on something turns out.   
Im not sure where to go from here?  Im going to be making some mods and will need to rejet.  Im trying to have a good understanding of this now so that Im ready for the changes.

For info on my mods I will be putting on a Jardine full exhaust with a K&N Lunch box.  The jetting that I would like to start with based on my research is: 22.5 pilot, 65 mid main, 147.5 main. with 3 turns out.

Please help me understand this. 
Thanks

Borrowed this image from Karl. The arrows are pointing to the "inaccessible" mixture screws. You will need to remove the caps (circled in red) that have the little holes in them. The way most people do this is by drilling the hole out slightly larger and then inserting a sheetrock/drywall screw and then pulling the caps out. Do be careful...most people opt to just drill them by hand because you can go too far and booger up the head of the mixture screw (or other things).

Your three jets are all in a bunch right in the center of the float area. The main is the largest, the mid-main is the middle size, and the pilot is the smallest. The jets are removed in the picture but you can clearly see their seats.

[SS Adrenaline]

Hey there gents and ladies, I have a few questions about my carb that I need explained to me.  First off its a 2006 carb from Canada so it has a 3 jet system, pilot, mid main, main.  My first question is this:

1:  Where the heck is this mid main jet that everyone talks about.  I have a Haynes manual and no where does it say mid main.  All the jets that it lists are pilot jet, pilot air jet, needle jet, jet needle, main jet, main air jet, and starter jet. 
Could the starter jet be the same as the mid main jet.  If it is where the neck is the little guy?  I dont think my manual shows me this.?

2:  My second question is about this turns out that people talk about.  For instance 3 turns out.  Is this the pilot screw setting that is being talked about?  If it is my manual says that all US models are pre-set.  This is the only thing I have found that gives me a spec on something turns out.   
Im not sure where to go from here?  Im going to be making some mods and will need to rejet.  Im trying to have a good understanding of this now so that Im ready for the changes.

For info on my mods I will be putting on a Jardine full exhaust with a K&N Lunch box.  The jetting that I would like to start with based on my research is: 22.5 pilot, 65 mid main, 147.5 main. with 3 turns out.

Please help me understand this. 
Thanks

Borrowed this image from Karl. The arrows are pointing to the "inaccessible" mixture screws. You will need to remove the caps (circled in red) that have the little holes in them. The way most people do this is by drilling the hole out slightly larger and then inserting a sheetrock/drywall screw and then pulling the caps out. Do be careful...most people opt to just drill them by hand because you can go too far and booger up the head of the mixture screw (or other things).

Your three jets are all in a bunch right in the center of the float area. The main is the largest, the mid-main is the middle size, and the pilot is the smallest. The jets are removed in the picture but you can clearly see their seats.

Ok, my manual does not show a third jet like in that picture.  It shows me 2 jets, the pilot and main.  The pilot is the one thats lower in my book.  So does that mean that in that picture the one that is lower is now the mid main and the one on the left is the pilot?
Also, why did they put a cap on the mixture screw?  Do I use a regular screw driver to adjust the mixture once I get the cap off?  When I make my adjustment do I put the caps back?  Are there an upgrade for this carb where I can replace that mixture screw for one that I can adjust by hand?
Thanks for the reply and picture.  The more pictures the better.

[xunedeinx]

Dont be afrade.

Take the carbs off, flip them upside down, carefully take off the float bowls, and look.

If you have eyes, you'll see where the jets are, especially if you have the new ones in front of you.

[SS Adrenaline]

Dont be afrade.

Take the carbs off, flip them upside down, carefully take off the float bowls, and look.

If you have eyes, you'll see where the jets are, especially if you have the new ones in front of you.

Oh based on the picture above it doesnt look to hard.  The caps that I have to take off have me worried.  Can anyone answer my other questions.  Thanks for the reply.

[SS Adrenaline]

Why did they put a cap on the mixture screw?  Do I use a regular screw driver to adjust the mixture once I get the cap off?  When I make my adjustment do I put the caps back?  Are there an upgrade for this carb where I can replace that mixture screw for one that I can adjust by hand?
Thanks for the reply and picture.  The more pictures the better.

Could this make the adjusting easier?

http://www.factorypro.com/prod_pages/prods10.html

"Long Boy"
Finger Fuel Screw Kits

Frustrated with trying to find an "almost 90 degree"  screwdriver to fine adjust your fuel screws for best idle and cruise?
Use Factory Pro's new "finger adjustable" fuel screws to adjust fuel screws for best throttle response. Traveling to high altitude? It's easy to lean out the lowend temporarily.

Make your life easier!

Installation:
Remove old short stock fuel screws, old orings, old washers and old spring. The o-ring might be stuck in the carb, so, take a light and make sure it's really out if it didn't come out with the screw (or you can't find it after you took out the screw)
Use a small bent wire to pull it out if it doesn't drop out. Keep the old parts for "spares".

gs500 screw kit comes with:
2 Long Boy fuel screws
2 new o-ring
2 new washer
2 new spring

Anyone have any info?
               

[Kijona]

Okay look... you're over-thinking this. You yank the plugs out and throw them away. They are plugged from the factory so that a) dummies don't go messing with them and b) because of emission standards. Stop worrying and go take the carburetors off the bike and open them up. If your manual is telling you that there are only 2 jets then you have the wrong manual. I don't think Canadian models with new gen carbs have two jets. As far as I know, all newer generation carburetors have THREE jets like the one pictured.

You can use a standard screw driver (slotted). Something like this would be handy:

OR you can just hold the bit in your fingers and turn it, the screws are not hard to turn at all.

Here is the procedure for setting the "turns" on these needles:

1) Remove the needles, springs, and o-rings. Meaning, unscrew them from the carb until they come all the way out.
2) Inspect and clean the needles and o-rings. Small bits of sand or dirt on the needles can cause them to snap off when you turn them in.
3) Inspect and clean the needles' seats - i.e., where they screw into the carburetor.
4) Re-insert the needles and GENTLY screw them in until they stop. In my experience, just holding a bit in your fingers gives ample torque and will lessen the likelihood of you breaking the needle off. If you DO break one or both of them, don't fret. They're only $8 a piece. So, don't get yourself worked up over it. Just be sure you don't booger up the threads on the carb - that'll ruin your day.
5) Now, with the needles seated, begin turning them out. 3 complete turns from fully closed is what the number is referring to.

Note: There are springs beneath the needles. Not very strong springs, but springs nonetheless. So be sure you don't let anything go flying.

As far as removing the float bowls...the screws holding them on are NOT phillips-head. They are JIS screws. You should get yourself an impact driver and try to remove them that way. Another method is to grab the head of the screw with a pair of vice-grips and loosen them that way. They are a PAIN in the BUTT to get out, just so you know. You'll also want to replace them with stainless steel cap-head (allen-head) screws. You can probably get some from ACE. I know neither Lowes nor Home Depot carries the stainless variety but they DO have mild steel versions.

[SS Adrenaline]

Okay look... you're over-thinking this. You yank the plugs out and throw them away. They are plugged from the factory so that a) dummies don't go messing with them and b) because of emission standards. Stop worrying and go take the carburetors off the bike and open them up. If your manual is telling you that there are only 2 jets then you have the wrong manual. I don't think Canadian models with new gen carbs have two jets. As far as I know, all newer generation carburetors have THREE jets like the one pictured.

You can use a standard screw driver (slotted). Something like this would be handy:

OR you can just hold the bit in your fingers and turn it, the screws are not hard to turn at all.

Here is the procedure for setting the "turns" on these needles:

1) Remove the needles, springs, and o-rings. Meaning, unscrew them from the carb until they come all the way out.
2) Inspect and clean the needles and o-rings. Small bits of sand or dirt on the needles can cause them to snap off when you turn them in.
3) Inspect and clean the needles' seats - i.e., where they screw into the carburetor.
4) Re-insert the needles and GENTLY screw them in until they stop. In my experience, just holding a bit in your fingers gives ample torque and will lessen the likelihood of you breaking the needle off. If you DO break one or both of them, don't fret. They're only $8 a piece. So, don't get yourself worked up over it. Just be sure you don't booger up the threads on the carb - that'll ruin your day.
5) Now, with the needles seated, begin turning them out. 3 complete turns from fully closed is what the number is referring to.

Note: There are springs beneath the needles. Not very strong springs, but springs nonetheless. So be sure you don't let anything go flying.

As far as removing the float bowls...the screws holding them on are NOT phillips-head. They are JIS screws. You should get yourself an impact driver and try to remove them that way. Another method is to grab the head of the screw with a pair of vice-grips and loosen them that way. They are a PAIN in the BUTT to get out, just so you know. You'll also want to replace them with stainless steel cap-head (allen-head) screws. You can probably get some from ACE. I know neither Lowes nor Home Depot carries the stainless variety but they DO have mild steel versions.

Ok thanks for the info and your probably right about over thinking about this but I dont see a problem with asking alot of questions so that you have a Definite answer.  I do have the right manual for this bike, it just does not say anything about the 3 jet carbs.

http://www.amazon.com/Suzuki-1989-2008-Haynes-Service-Repair/dp/1844258815

This is the exact manual that I have.

You answered my question on what to do with the caps.  I didnt know if you put them back in once your done (maybe to prevent them from backing out???).  your first bit of info didnt specify this which is why I asked. 

As far as the link that I posted, it was to make easier ajustments with out having to take the carbs off or fiddle with a screw driver with them in.  Im only guessing on the turns out and might want to try dialing it in to maybe 2.75 of a turn.

I appreciate the help that you have provided however it sort of sounds like your are getting Frustrated with how detailed I need things to be to make scense in my mind.  Now having said this you cant express emotion in typed words so I might be getting the wrong idea, and I am sorry if this is the case.

In conclusion, great info here.

[The Buddha]

The air mixture screws wont turn themselves out unless you have them set to somethign like 6-7 out. They have a spring and a washer and an O ring holding them in.
If you're so worried, install a plastic cap available @ home depot.
Cool.
Buddha.

[Kijona]

Okay look... you're over-thinking this. You yank the plugs out and throw them away. They are plugged from the factory so that a) dummies don't go messing with them and b) because of emission standards. Stop worrying and go take the carburetors off the bike and open them up. If your manual is telling you that there are only 2 jets then you have the wrong manual. I don't think Canadian models with new gen carbs have two jets. As far as I know, all newer generation carburetors have THREE jets like the one pictured.

You can use a standard screw driver (slotted). Something like this would be handy:

OR you can just hold the bit in your fingers and turn it, the screws are not hard to turn at all.

Here is the procedure for setting the "turns" on these needles:

1) Remove the needles, springs, and o-rings. Meaning, unscrew them from the carb until they come all the way out.
2) Inspect and clean the needles and o-rings. Small bits of sand or dirt on the needles can cause them to snap off when you turn them in.
3) Inspect and clean the needles' seats - i.e., where they screw into the carburetor.
4) Re-insert the needles and GENTLY screw them in until they stop. In my experience, just holding a bit in your fingers gives ample torque and will lessen the likelihood of you breaking the needle off. If you DO break one or both of them, don't fret. They're only $8 a piece. So, don't get yourself worked up over it. Just be sure you don't booger up the threads on the carb - that'll ruin your day.
5) Now, with the needles seated, begin turning them out. 3 complete turns from fully closed is what the number is referring to.

Note: There are springs beneath the needles. Not very strong springs, but springs nonetheless. So be sure you don't let anything go flying.

As far as removing the float bowls...the screws holding them on are NOT phillips-head. They are JIS screws. You should get yourself an impact driver and try to remove them that way. Another method is to grab the head of the screw with a pair of vice-grips and loosen them that way. They are a PAIN in the BUTT to get out, just so you know. You'll also want to replace them with stainless steel cap-head (allen-head) screws. You can probably get some from ACE. I know neither Lowes nor Home Depot carries the stainless variety but they DO have mild steel versions.

Ok thanks for the info and your probably right about over thinking about this but I dont see a problem with asking alot of questions so that you have a Definite answer.  I do have the right manual for this bike, it just does not say anything about the 3 jet carbs.

http://www.amazon.com/Suzuki-1989-2008-Haynes-Service-Repair/dp/1844258815

This is the exact manual that I have.

You answered my question on what to do with the caps.  I didnt know if you put them back in once your done (maybe to prevent them from backing out???).  your first bit of info didnt specify this which is why I asked. 

As far as the link that I posted, it was to make easier ajustments with out having to take the carbs off or fiddle with a screw driver with them in.  Im only guessing on the turns out and might want to try dialing it in to maybe 2.75 of a turn.

I appreciate the help that you have provided however it sort of sounds like your are getting Frustrated with how detailed I need things to be to make scense in my mind.  Now having said this you cant express emotion in typed words so I might be getting the wrong idea, and I am sorry if this is the case.

In conclusion, great info here.

Nobody is frustrated with you or about it. I was just being emphatic.

The springs keep them from backing out.

The problem is that an 89-08 manual isn't giving you the exact information you need. The bike underwent some changes in 01. The 01+ carbs have 3 jets whereas 00 and older had 2 jets.

[SS Adrenaline]

Okay look... you're over-thinking this. You yank the plugs out and throw them away. They are plugged from the factory so that a) dummies don't go messing with them and b) because of emission standards. Stop worrying and go take the carburetors off the bike and open them up. If your manual is telling you that there are only 2 jets then you have the wrong manual. I don't think Canadian models with new gen carbs have two jets. As far as I know, all newer generation carburetors have THREE jets like the one pictured.

You can use a standard screw driver (slotted). Something like this would be handy:

OR you can just hold the bit in your fingers and turn it, the screws are not hard to turn at all.

Here is the procedure for setting the "turns" on these needles:

1) Remove the needles, springs, and o-rings. Meaning, unscrew them from the carb until they come all the way out.
2) Inspect and clean the needles and o-rings. Small bits of sand or dirt on the needles can cause them to snap off when you turn them in.
3) Inspect and clean the needles' seats - i.e., where they screw into the carburetor.
4) Re-insert the needles and GENTLY screw them in until they stop. In my experience, just holding a bit in your fingers gives ample torque and will lessen the likelihood of you breaking the needle off. If you DO break one or both of them, don't fret. They're only $8 a piece. So, don't get yourself worked up over it. Just be sure you don't booger up the threads on the carb - that'll ruin your day.
5) Now, with the needles seated, begin turning them out. 3 complete turns from fully closed is what the number is referring to.

Note: There are springs beneath the needles. Not very strong springs, but springs nonetheless. So be sure you don't let anything go flying.

As far as removing the float bowls...the screws holding them on are NOT phillips-head. They are JIS screws. You should get yourself an impact driver and try to remove them that way. Another method is to grab the head of the screw with a pair of vice-grips and loosen them that way. They are a PAIN in the BUTT to get out, just so you know. You'll also want to replace them with stainless steel cap-head (allen-head) screws. You can probably get some from ACE. I know neither Lowes nor Home Depot carries the stainless variety but they DO have mild steel versions.

Ok thanks for the info and your probably right about over thinking about this but I dont see a problem with asking alot of questions so that you have a Definite answer.  I do have the right manual for this bike, it just does not say anything about the 3 jet carbs.

http://www.amazon.com/Suzuki-1989-2008-Haynes-Service-Repair/dp/1844258815

This is the exact manual that I have.

You answered my question on what to do with the caps.  I didnt know if you put them back in once your done (maybe to prevent them from backing out???).  your first bit of info didnt specify this which is why I asked. 

As far as the link that I posted, it was to make easier ajustments with out having to take the carbs off or fiddle with a screw driver with them in.  Im only guessing on the turns out and might want to try dialing it in to maybe 2.75 of a turn.

I appreciate the help that you have provided however it sort of sounds like your are getting Frustrated with how detailed I need things to be to make scense in my mind.  Now having said this you cant express emotion in typed words so I might be getting the wrong idea, and I am sorry if this is the case.

In conclusion, great info here.

Nobody is frustrated with you or about it. I was just being emphatic.

The springs keep them from backing out.

The problem is that an 89-08 manual isn't giving you the exact information you need. The bike underwent some changes in 01. The 01+ carbs have 3 jets whereas 00 and older had 2 jets.

Well Im glad that your not frustrated as I do appriciate your advice.
I also had thought that my manual should cover the 3 jet version as well.  It does say till 2008.

As far as the caps, I didnt know if they served another purpose other than pervention of adjustment.  Some times when things are engineered a certain way they serve multiple functions.  Now that I know this I will just get ride of them.

Hey there Budda nice to see you on.  I did message you about the jets that I would like to get for this project.  I hope that you received it bud.

Does anyone have a thought or opinion on the hand adjustments from my link.
Thanks every one.

[bombsquad83]

Does anyone have a thought or opinion on the hand adjustments from my link.
Thanks every one.

I think they look good quality and would be convenient.  Ultimately though, are they going to be worth almost $50?  Probably not.