Fork Springs

[Kijona]

There was a picture somebody posted not too long ago that was comparing old "E" springs to "F" springs and then the "F" springs to progressives and I believe a set of sonics.

If somebody knows where that pic is, could you link it for me? Thanks!

As a side question, the newer generation fork springs are a pretty substantial upgrade for an older bike, right? I'm considering dropping some newer springs in my 97. As it is now it'll bottom out just from going over a speed HUMP - not even a speed BUMP.

But I'm preaching to the choir on this one, I'm sure. LOL!

[bombsquad83]

Here you go.

http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=59293.msg678513#msg678513

[Kijona]

Here you go.

http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=59293.msg678513#msg678513

Hey thanks!

[steezin_and_wheezin]

the newer gsF springs are somewhat better, but still far from being a worthy upgrade.

i would pick up a set of sonic/race tech springs if you have the play cash.

[Kijona]

the newer gsF springs are somewhat better, but still far from being a worthy upgrade.

i would pick up a set of sonic/race tech springs if you have the play cash.

Hard to justify $100+ shipping versus $20 shipped. That's why! I can always put even better ones in later.

Here's a good question...spring replacement is just plug and play, right? Do I need to add/remove oil? I know that I should probably replace the oil, and I might, but aside from that?

I've got a vacuum pump which will make things very easy if I do replace the oil.

When I (we) replaced the fork seals on my DL1000, we used synthetic ATF in lieu of regular oil. Seemed to be okay. Thoughts/comments on doing the same on the GS?

[bombsquad83]

To my knowledge, ATF can be fairly corrosive.  I wouldn't use it in forks as it might affect the seals adversely.

[Kijona]

Well apparently it's a fairly controversial topic: http://www.motorcycleforum.com/showthread.php?t=109666

It's an "old school" method near as I can tell.

Anybody know what the stock fork oil weight is on a 97 GS? I know Mobil1 Synthetic ATF is around 7.5wt.

[bombsquad83]

Stock weight is 10W.

[Kijona]

Stock weight is 10W.

Awesome. Thanks

[Jeff P]

New springs (or at least the Progressives I put in my '96 about 7 years ago) require new spacers and a change in the fluid volume. 

Substituting something other than fork oil is idiotic.  A can of real fork oil is under $15. 

jeff

[burning1]

Hard to justify $100+ shipping versus $20 shipped. That's why! I can always put even better ones in later.

Here's a good question...spring replacement is just plug and play, right? Do I need to add/remove oil? I know that I should probably replace the oil, and I might, but aside from that?

That's $20 you could be spending on a set of proper springs.

You will need to correctly set the fork oil level. Removing the springs will cause you to loose some oil. Oil level has a significant impact on how your forks behave at full compression.

[BaltimoreGS]

To my knowledge, ATF can be fairly corrosive.  I wouldn't use it in forks as it might affect the seals adversely.

I use Dexron ATF all the time.  It is actually what is specified in old Honda repair manuals.  There's no real difference between a fork seal on a bike and a half shaft axle seal on an automatic transmission in a car.

-Jessie

[burning1]

Viscosity is pretty important in a fork oil. If ATF has the right weight and viscosity index, I don't see why it wouldn't work... But fork oil is pretty cheap.

[bombsquad83]

To my knowledge, ATF can be fairly corrosive.  I wouldn't use it in forks as it might affect the seals adversely.

I use Dexron ATF all the time.  It is actually what is specified in old Honda repair manuals.  There's no real difference between a fork seal on a bike and a half shaft axle seal on an automatic transmission in a car.

-Jessie

Good to know from someone who knows what they are talking about.  Whatever floats your boat then I guess?  Personally I would use an oil that I know is designed for forks, unless I had some compelling source (like a manual) tell me otherwise.

[Kijona]

New springs (or at least the Progressives I put in my '96 about 7 years ago) require new spacers and a change in the fluid volume. 

Substituting something other than fork oil is idiotic.  A can of real fork oil is under $15. 

jeff

I appreciate the information on the spacers and fluid volume.

As Jessie said, the old Honda (and I believe others as well) manuals call for ATF. I found this out upon doing more research myself. I don't know how you meant the phrase "is idiotic" but, to me, blindly using something that costs $15, when you have a huge bottle of something that will work sitting on the shelf, is much more idiotic. At the time, the Mobil1 Synthetic ATF was recommended for the 'Strom as a cheap alternative that works just as well as something far more expensive.

As far as spending money on more expensive springs is concerned...my motorcycle is my main form of transportation. It's how I get to work every day and so-on. There are two types of people who ride motorcycles: those who do it for fun and as a hobby, and those who do it for its economical benefit. Then, I guess there are people like me who do it for both reasons. Point being is that $20 shipped (from Adidasguy), is a lot better than $100+ shipping, to solve an issue. I'm not worried about the difference between the new stock springs and sonic springs or progressives or any of that. All I really care about is if it keeps the suspension from bottoming out from running over anything bigger than a pinecone, and improves the handling to a "reasonable level".

[Kijona]

Different question...could someone provide me with the specs on fluid level? I'm sure there are different ways of doing it and how to set it and all that, I'll figure that out when I get there. I'll probably use a popsicle stick or wooden chopstick to check the current level.

[Funderb]

I think you can get progressives on ebay for 75-80 bucks shipped. other sources may be cheaper even.

[Jeff P]

Ok "idiotic" was probably too strong, what I'm saying is that I've never thought it made sense to economize on a safety critical item for your motorcycle by substitution.  Sure, ATF might work, but I'm not a tribologist so I'll go with the sure thing. 

I ended up using a PVC end cap (I think it was 3/4 or 1") as a spacer with my Progressive springs - perfect size and no cutting required (though perhaps that was economizing  )

jeff

[NoSecrets913]

New springs (or at least the Progressives I put in my '96 about 7 years ago) require new spacers and a change in the fluid volume. 

Substituting something other than fork oil is idiotic.  A can of real fork oil is under $15. 

jeff

I appreciate the information on the spacers and fluid volume.

As Jessie said, the old Honda (and I believe others as well) manuals call for ATF. I found this out upon doing more research myself. I don't know how you meant the phrase "is idiotic" but, to me, blindly using something that costs $15, when you have a huge bottle of something that will work sitting on the shelf, is much more idiotic. At the time, the Mobil1 Synthetic ATF was recommended for the 'Strom as a cheap alternative that works just as well as something far more expensive.

As far as spending money on more expensive springs is concerned...my motorcycle is my main form of transportation. It's how I get to work every day and so-on. There are two types of people who ride motorcycles: those who do it for fun and as a hobby, and those who do it for its economical benefit. Then, I guess there are people like me who do it for both reasons. Point being is that $20 shipped (from Adidasguy), is a lot better than $100+ shipping, to solve an issue. I'm not worried about the difference between the new stock springs and sonic springs or progressives or any of that. All I really care about is if it keeps the suspension from bottoming out from running over anything bigger than a pinecone, and improves the handling to a "reasonable level".

Good to see Im not the only one planning this upgrade. I just ordered a set of those springs from Adidasguy too. I figure its a very cheap upgrade since I have to replace my fork seals anyways. I'll take some improvement over no improvement any day.

[The Buddha]

This will be a worthwhile experiment ...
The harley springers have a sort of capsule with hydraulics in it.
If you made a big fat fork brace with a mounting clevise on top, you could rig the bottom side of the steering stem to take the other mount point for that type of shock and you could pretty much run a little bit of lube type oil and springs in the forks and not need real hydraulics there. The advantage will be that you dont have to worry about seals and them leaking. The capsule unit usually is pretty leak resistant. If it leaks it also is a smaller operation to pull it apart and fix it.

Cool.
Buddha.