progressive vs. straight rate springs - anyone ridden both?

[dougdoberman]

Straight rate's seem to be the choice by most of the people who look to have done some detailed research.   I'm wondering if we've got anyone here who's tried both options, and if so, what their opinions are.  My limited searching didn't urn up anyone who's actually tested them both.

[adidasguy]

I have both. For ordinary street driving, I can't say I see any difference. I ride 3 bikes. One has progressive (The other 2 have Allstate  That's a joke). I jump from bike to bike - sometimes riding all 3 one after the other. I think Junior has the progressives, based on trying to remember the state of things when I replaced them.

[fraze11]

I have to echo addidas here, I have progressives in my 09 and my buddy has Sonics in his 02.  I've yet to personally notice a difference in regular daily street riding/trips between the 2 that made me second guess my choice.  I've read/heard there is significant notice in aggressive/race riding with the Sonic's being favoured, but I have no experience there.  The progressives firmed up my front end, stopped nose dives and front end brake dives, and greatly improved handling/cornering, which is exactly what I was after

[dougdoberman]

Thanks guys.  If I may ask publically, what's your weight?  I'm not as svelte as I was when I had my first GS.  I like that I can get Race Techs in a higher rating for my larger mass while Progressive's are just one size fits all.  Anyone know if they've got a suggested rider weight rating on them?

[fraze11]

I'm 5'9 175lbs

[SS Adrenaline]

Adidas does sometimes ride all three at the same time so i think its hard for him to also tell the differeance....lol.

[SAFE-T]

Straight rate springs are for people who ride in a fairly narrow range of riding conditions, without changing the weight or weight distribution of the bike by carrying passengers or luggage. Suspension tuners prefer straight rate because then they can control for that variable and alter the way the suspension works through other ways.

[SAFE-T]

The suspension tech doesn't 'like' progressive rate springs because the spring rate is different along the springs length. Different spring rates mean different settings for things like high and low speed rebound/compression ~ the tuner cannot get the thing to work the way they want it.

[SAFE-T]

In the case of a much simpler suspension design like the GS500 has, there are fewer ways to alter the character of the suspension. This is why you probably wouldn't notice the difference between straight rate or progressive rate springs.

[SAFE-T]

Plus, you would have to ride it more aggressively to notice. I can't really tell how well my Ohlins suspension works until I get going close to as fast as I am comfortable. 

[RichDesmond]

Straight rate's seem to be the choice by most of the people who look to have done some detailed research.   I'm wondering if we've got anyone here who's tried both options, and if so, what their opinions are.  My limited searching didn't urn up anyone who's actually tested them both.

I have. In fact, the difference is one of the reasons Sonic Springs exists. Used to have a Kawasaki Concours that had progressively wound springs in it installed by the PO. Didn't really like the front end feel and wanted some straight-rate springs. At the time Race-Tech didn't offer a rate stiff enough for a bike that heavy. So I went looking around and had some made. One thing lead to another and I ended up owning a company.
All that said, for the average street guy it's not a huge difference. It's always there at least a little, and the harder you ride and/or the more you weigh the more you'll feel it. But ANY aftermarket set will be a big improvement over stock.

Here's our explanation of the difference:
http://www.sonicsprings.com/catalog/straight_vs_prog_tech_article.php

[SAFE-T]

Like he just said ~ it's too hard to control the damping, for suspension guys that's a critical variable.

Maybe they're just the new kids on the block so they have the buzz, but I've read good things about Sonic Springs on other motorcycle forums as well

[Bluesmudge]

I have Sonic Springs in my GS and love 'em. I have progressives in another (not GS) bike and didn't notice as much of a change vs stock. I weigh 200 lbs and prefer the Sonic Springs.

[gsJack]

Thanks guys.  If I may ask publically, what's your weight?  I'm not as svelte as I was when I had my first GS.  I like that I can get Race Techs in a higher rating for my larger mass while Progressive's are just one size fits all.  Anyone know if they've got a suggested rider weight rating on them?

I put Progressives in my 97GS (bought new) when doing a seal job at about 50k miles and put about 30k miles on them and then when the 97 was totalled in 03 I put the same set of Progressives in my current 02 GS and put another 90k miles on them.  Seems to me my Progressives with about 120k miles on them now are just about right. A bit on the stiff side when new, not much sag as I recall, they are finally properly broken in.

I was svelte at 6'2" and 155# when I graduated from high school but that was many decades ago.     During my last 13 years and 170k miles of GS riding I have been 6'2" - 5'10" and 230 - 255 - 220#.  Never tried the straight rate springs but from the many posts on the subject I've got the idea the Progressives work best for the heavier riders.  One size fits all but they seem to fit the heavier ones best.

[SAFE-T]

I didn't think springs changed over time...

[gsJack]

I didn't think springs changed over time...

Google something like 'coil spring fatigue sag' and you'll get millions of replies.  Decades ago you could see the cars with high milage on them come down the streets sagging low.  60-70k miles was high milage then, engines and springs have made much progress since I started driving.  100k miles on a car is just broken in now by comparison.  There are special low sag spring steels now to extend fatigue failure limits but I doubt they are used on the aftermarket bike suspension springs, anyhow they extend not eliminate sag.

[RichDesmond]

Google something like 'coil spring fatigue sag' and you'll get millions of replies.  Decades ago you could see the cars with high milage on them come down the streets sagging low.  60-70k miles was high milage then, engines and springs have made much progress since I started driving.  100k miles on a car is just broken in now by comparison.  There are special low sag spring steels now to extend fatigue failure limits but I doubt they are used on the aftermarket bike suspension springs, anyhow they extend not eliminate sag.

That's just not true. We use ASTM-A1000 chrome silicon steel, you can put 100,000s miles on them with no sag or derating. Most other aftermarket spring companies also use high quality steel.
Even stock springs are better than they used to be as far as that goes. They may be way too soft to start out with, but they generally don't get any worse with time.

[mankyle]

I had progressives on my VStrom and the front end was very soft and nose-dived badly on braking.

I picked up a set of straight Sonic Springs and love them.  The front end is much stiffer and for me feels more controllable and predictable.  Of course on a lighter (and shorter) GS500 not sure the effect would be as great.

If you are looking for springs I would recommend Sonic Springs.  They work with you to determine what you need and have a great reputation amongst VStrom riders.

[gsJack]

Google something like 'coil spring fatigue sag' and you'll get millions of replies.  Decades ago you could see the cars with high milage on them come down the streets sagging low.  60-70k miles was high milage then, engines and springs have made much progress since I started driving.  100k miles on a car is just broken in now by comparison.  There are special low sag spring steels now to extend fatigue failure limits but I doubt they are used on the aftermarket bike suspension springs, anyhow they extend not eliminate sag.

That's just not true. We use ASTM-A1000 chrome silicon steel, you can put 100,000s miles on them with no sag or derating. Most other aftermarket spring companies also use high quality steel.
Even stock springs are better than they used to be as far as that goes. They may be way too soft to start out with, but they generally don't get any worse with time.

Mmmmm, must have been the wear in the fork seals/wipers that increased the sag and reduced the rate a bit on my Progressives over the 100k miles or so.     Has anyone else noticed this happen in 100k+ miles on their GS?  A little more input might be helpful.      Anyway, my first post above was to report my weight and it's relationship to the Progressive's performance, I found the Progressives on the stiff side for a 220-250# rider and they felt better to me after many miles reduced their stiffness a bit.  Never heard of the Sonics when I tried the Progressives 10 years ago or I might have tried them instead.  Quite frankly I think either would have served my purposes equally well.  There sure is a lot of discussion about spring sag on the internet for a problem that no longer exists though.   

[RichDesmond]

Well, I did say "most".
Seriously, I don't know what alloy the Progressives use. (I do on some of the other major straight rate brands). I can't easily check them either, since they're not marked. With Race-Techs or Traxxion or Ohlins, sometimes when I run across a set I'll check the rate to see if it's "as marked". Invariably, it is. The Progressives may be just as consistent, I just don't know.

In the 7 years we've been in business I've had one customer claim that the springs sacked out. Guy with an ST1300, 700lb bike. He'd had them 3 years and put 30,000+ miles on them. So I gave him a refund and got the springs back. They checked out fine, same length, same rate as new. Don't know if something else happened with the front end that was causing the problem, he wasn't open to any troubleshooting, just wanted his money back.

If you put 100,000 miles on a set of ours and they derate, we'll give you another set free AND refund your money.