Safety- Whats more important, bright colored bike or hi-vis clothing?

[Twism86]

Ride smart. You could put an ambulance siren on your white helmet and have a suit that lights up like the Vegas strip and drivers will still not see you and cut you off, move into your lane, pull out in front of you, etc.

[MarkB]

So, If I get the orange one, is the bonus of the hi-vis suit worth looking like a clown?  Again, Im not trying to be a BA....I stay far from half helmets and leather vests...

If my hi-viz Roadcrafter ever wears out (it's about 12 years old with one trip back to Aerostich to replace the main zipper and a few other bits), I'd buy another one just like it.  That said, in the real world where people vote with their wallet, it's unusual to see much hi-viz riding gear, except around military bases which require reflective over vests. 

My wife has told me she thinks it's hideous, but she's glad I wear it.  I don't give it much thought.  I accept that the BA leather tasseled Harley guys may be laughing at me.  Until it starts to rain . . .

[Janx101]

that pump up bom diggety fresh orange suit crash unit life saver thing... 

looks like some good planning.... i wanna see a real life one though ... not dang CGI ...

but .... what if old mate there was right up the top of a mountain rd or beside a deep gorge when that ball suit was needed.... that could be a long way to roll/bump/career down eh! 

[Toogoofy317]

I'm more into statistics i.e what is really happening versus opinion but that's me.

Motorcycle rider conspicuity and crash related injury: case-control study.
Wells S, Mullin B, Norton R, Langley J, Connor J, Lay-Yee R, Jackson R.
Source
Section of Epidemiology and Biostatistics, School of Population Health, Private Bag 92019, University of Auckland, Grafton Road, Auckland 1, New Zealand. s.wells@auckland.ac.nz
Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
To investigate whether the risk of motorcycle crash related injuries is associated with the conspicuity of the driver or vehicle.
DESIGN:
Population based case-control study.
SETTING:
Auckland region of New Zealand from February 1993 to February 1996.
PARTICIPANTS:
463 motorcycle drivers (cases) involved in crashes leading to hospital treatment or death; 1233 motorcycle drivers (controls) recruited from randomly selected roadside survey sites.
MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES:
Estimates of relative risk of motorcycle crash related injury and population attributable risk associated with conspicuity measures, including the use of reflective or fluorescent clothing, headlight operation, and colour of helmet, clothing, and motorcycle.
RESULTS:
Crash related injuries occurred mainly in urban zones with 50 km/h speed limit (66%), during the day (63%), and in fine weather (72%). After adjustment for potential confounders, drivers wearing any reflective or fluorescent clothing had a 37% lower risk (multivariate odds ratio 0.63, 95% confidence interval 0.42 to 0.94) than other drivers. Compared with wearing a black helmet, use of a white helmet was associated with a 24% lower risk (multivariate odds ratio 0.76, 0.57 to 0.99). Self reported light coloured helmet versus dark coloured helmet was associated with a 19% lower risk. Three quarters of motorcycle riders had their headlight turned on during the day, and this was associated with a 27% lower risk (multivariate odds ratio 0.73, 0.53 to 1.00). No association occurred between risk and the frontal colour of drivers' clothing or motorcycle. If these odds ratios are unconfounded, the population attributable risks are 33% for wearing no reflective or fluorescent clothing, 18% for a non-white helmet, 11% for a dark coloured helmet, and 7% for no daytime headlight operation.
CONCLUSIONS:
Low conspicuity may increase the risk of motorcycle crash related injury. Increasing the use of reflective or fluorescent clothing, white or light coloured helmets, and daytime headlights are simple, cheap interventions that could considerably reduce motorcycle crash related injury and death.



This is just a quick search I'm sure if I sat down and really wanted to do a lit review I could find more. But, I've got other things to research. If you want the whole article let me know I'll PM it to you.

Mary

[MarkB]

I'm more into statistics i.e what is really happening versus opinion but that's me. . . .

Good find.  Full text of study report can be found here:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC387473/pdf/bmj32800857.pdf

[mister]

HiViz, Sirens and Brightly Flashing lights didn't help this guy... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynXnGcOn4Uc

It's not about being seen. It's about making the vehicle Care that they saw you.

Just like cars pull out in front of cyclists - they don't care cause he will stop.
They pull in front of trucks cause they don't want to get held up.
Motorbikes.... they just don't care, he'll move, stop, whatever.

It wearing the hiviz makes you warm and fuzzy inside then wear it. Just don't think you can ride switched off like cagers drive and the hiviz will protect you. Ride like they cannot see you. That is, do NOT put yourself into dangerous positions.

Michael

[ohgood]

HiViz, Sirens and Brightly Flashing lights didn't help this guy... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynXnGcOn4Uc

It's not about being seen. It's about making the vehicle Care that they saw you.

Just like cars pull out in front of cyclists - they don't care cause he will stop.
They pull in front of trucks cause they don't want to get held up.
Motorbikes.... they just don't care, he'll move, stop, whatever.

It wearing the hiviz makes you warm and fuzzy inside then wear it. Just don't think you can ride switched off like cagers drive and the hiviz will protect you. Ride like they cannot see you. That is, do NOT put yourself into dangerous positions.

Michael

THIS ! 

[BockinBboy]

I think for someone to be completely sided one way or the other on this, is only to say that they are being absent minded.  Wearing hi-vis isn't safety net by any means, and no one is saying that it is or that wearing it will give reason to drive 'less safely.'  The fact is, a dangerous situation can be completely avoided and never even be acknowledged to have existed if another driver saw you just one second earlier.  Wearing Hi-vis will not hurt you, and will certainly help your odds.

Its like those people whose reason for not wearing a helmet is 'If I go down on my bike, I'll be in the hospital or worse regardless of what I'm wearing' - and most of us here know thats a hunk of bull just from seeing racers go down in full gear and come back up without a scratch.  But, given there are a lot of variables that are in play, there is a grain of truth to what they say, that view doesn't just come from nowhere... but back to the topic - It doesn't matter how good of a driver you are, you won't avoid EVERY dangerous situation because you simply are not in control of everyone else's driving. 

The proof is there that being more visible is SAFER, because it lowers the chance of a dangerous situation even coming to sight (no pun intended).  It is always up to you how much risk you are willing to take on, and a motorcycle simply invites more to start off with.  These are all still just statistics that dictate the conversation, but its also still a matter of chance and circumstances that are continually changing, but some of which you CAN change by altering the odds.

- Bboy

[mister]

The prob with any stats that show less motorcycle stuff with hi viz is, the person who opts for hi viz rides a certain way to begin with. You don't see hi viz wearers riding like dickheads.

Michael

[k.rollin]

that pump up bom diggety fresh orange suit crash unit life saver thing... 

looks like some good planning.... i wanna see a real life one though ... not dang CGI ...

but .... what if old mate there was right up the top of a mountain rd or beside a deep gorge when that ball suit was needed.... that could be a long way to roll/bump/career down eh! 

I haven't seen an airbag equipped suit or jacket that will turn you into a ball, but I know that AlpineStars, Dainese, and Spidi make jackets, suits, and vests that use airbags to protect riders in crashes.

[Twisted]

The prob with any stats that show less motorcycle stuff with hi viz is, the person who opts for hi viz rides a certain way to begin with. You don't see hi viz wearers riding like dickheads.

Michael

Challenge accepted!!! 

[ohgood]

The prob with any stats that show less motorcycle stuff with hi viz is, the person who opts for hi viz rides a certain way to begin with. You don't see hi viz wearers riding like dickheads.

Michael

THIS !


remember the studies that said "drinking one glass of wine daily means a longer healthier life" ? yes, no one said anything about the study comparing upper class to poverty level folks.

yes, wearing hi-vis will make you more visible. the offending car driver WILL STILL HAVE TO LOOK AND CARE about not killing you.

[BockinBboy]

...These are all still just statistics that dictate the conversation, but its also still a matter of chance and circumstances that are continually changing, but some of which you CAN change by altering the odds.

- Bboy

It is like I say, take the studies and their statistics with a grain of salt.  But there is truth there, and it doesn't just come from no where.  Now whether it is truly '18%' or actually '5%'.. who cares? Its still an amount that does make a difference whethere its a tangible amount or not.  Its whether you choose to accept additional risk or not. 

Now the generalization about Hi-Vis wearers is exactly that, a generalization.  I know two brothers who ride 'balls to the wall' everday riding, and both have yellow helmets and vests.  On the other hand, my grandpa still rides and he wears a white helmet and yellow vest, and drives like a grandpa (another generalization, I know! but you get the drift). 

To say that other drivers just don't care is another generalization, but there is a grain of truth, and I accept that.  But the take home from that is always drive like everyone else doesn't care to cover for the 5% that truly don't care.

So to make an equivalent statement to the above:

To say that other drivers don't see you on the road is another generalization, but there is a grain of truth, and I accept that.  But the take home from that is always drive to make yourself visible (maybe wear hi-vis to help that out) to cover for the 5% that truly don't see you.

- Bboy

[Worm]

It seems like some people are REALLY worried about the other person and if they care or not. Bottom line is, you can't do a damn thing to change that other person. But you can make changes to yourself to make those people who are maybe just not paying enough attention see you.

That's what wearing the hi-visibility clothing is about. If someone is out to run over a motorcyclist and you are the first one they see, you're going to have a bad day no matter what you are wearing. You can't change that. Worry about the things you can change. Ride within your own limits as safely as you can and make yourself as noticeable as you can. You do that, and you're stacking the odds as high as you can into your corner.

[tialloydragon]

I think what everyone is trying to say is you should pick whatever color bike you think looks cool, and that while wearing hi-viz clothing couldn't hurt, you should still ride as though no one can see you.

That said, i don't wear hi-viz, and the only close calls I have had (and learned from) were ones I could have avoided by driving less aggressively. 

[jestercinti]

Be safe, Be smart.  Back in 2000, I took an MSF class in Indiana where I was living at the time.  Best $25 I ever spent. 

We learned about SIPDE (Scan, Identify, Predict, Decide, Execute):

Scan:  Look around for the "quick way out" if things go awry.
Identify: Identify what's ahead.  Drive "through" the windshield of the car in front of you.
Predict:  The car next to me is texting.  That spells danger.  Eliminate the car from the equation.  Let them pass.
Decide:  Pick the best area of a multi-lane road, or the best area within the lane to ride in.
Execute:  Use the above to make the best decision possible.

[imbadnojoke]

The prob with any stats that show less motorcycle stuff with hi viz is, the person who opts for hi viz rides a certain way to begin with. You don't see hi viz wearers riding like dickheads.

Michael

I would agree with this most hi viz riders are more safety conscious to begin with.

[bud_44]

I feel Hi-vis clothing is much more safe than the color of the bike.  Just my 2 cents worth.  Ride safe.

[Toogoofy317]

The prob with any stats that show less motorcycle stuff with hi viz is, the person who opts for hi viz rides a certain way to begin with. You don't see hi viz wearers riding like dickheads.

Michael

And where is your proof to back this up? Ever ride around a military base? Lots of riders have their Hi-Vis military spec vest on and ride like complete jerk wads. Give me some hard statistics to back it up verses confirmation bias!

Even the Hurt report supports hi-viz! #13
"Conspicuity of the motorcycle is a critical factor in the multiple vehicle accidents, and accident involvement is significantly reduced by the use of motorcycle headlamps (on in daylight) and the wearing of high visibility yellow, orange or bright red jackets. "


Mary

[mister]

The prob with any stats that show less motorcycle stuff with hi viz is, the person who opts for hi viz rides a certain way to begin with. You don't see hi viz wearers riding like dickheads.

Michael

And where is your proof to back this up? Ever ride around a military base? Lots of riders have their Hi-Vis military spec vest on and ride like complete jerk wads. Give me some hard statistics to back it up verses confirmation bias!

Mary

Great. You know full well there is no way for me to prove to you that hiviz wearers don't ride like dickheads. Likewise, you cannot PROVE to me with Hard Statistics that lots of riders have hiviz military spec vests on and ride like jerk wads.

My statement is based on my riding observations. And I usually ride seven days a week and clock up 400++ miles a week. And on the weekend I see loads and loads of bikes. Some with hiviz. And I can tell you, the hiviz wearing riders I see during the week and on weekends do not ride like jerk wads. Of course, I am not hanging out in front of military bases - which simply might mean that people that work in military bases ride like jerk wads regardless of what they wear - but there is no Hard Statistical Proof for that either. So I guess we shall forever remain at this impasse.

Michael