Bike died while riding, wont start any more...

msforever · July 16, 2012, 08:08:58 AM

Hey guys,

New rider with my first bike, 04 500F. Got it a few weeks ago and its been running fine starts every time no problem at all. Took it to work this morning but it died on me about 2 miles after. I was approaching a red light, down shifting and went neutral but the bike just shut itself while still moving slowly and wont start again.

All lights are shut on the dashboard and nothing happens at all when I turn the key. There is still gas in the tank, dont think it was the fuel. I finally pushed it home and am charging the battery right now see what happens later. Have you guys experienced anything similar before? What do you think it is the battery or alternator or other stuff? What's the best way to find out the cause right now? Anything helps thank you for your time!

-Sen

Paulcet · July 16, 2012, 08:16:07 AM

Quote from: msforever on July 16, 2012, 08:08:58 AM
All lights are shut on the dashboard and nothing happens at all when I turn the key. There is still gas in the tank, dont think it was the fuel.

No lights anywhere? Electrical. Start by checking the fuse.

The flat bottom of the tank makes it look like there is plenty of fuel, when in fact there isn't enough. You have not had the bike very long... Many new owners run out of fuel and don't know it.

msforever · July 16, 2012, 09:23:13 AM

Quote from: Paulcet on July 16, 2012, 08:16:07 AM
Quote from: msforever on July 16, 2012, 08:08:58 AM
All lights are shut on the dashboard and nothing happens at all when I turn the key. There is still gas in the tank, dont think it was the fuel.

No lights anywhere? Electrical. Start by checking the fuse.

The flat bottom of the tank makes it look like there is plenty of fuel, when in fact there isn't enough. You have not had the bike very long... Many new owners run out of fuel and don't know it.

Thank you for your reply! Yes NO lights anywhere right now. If I was out of fuel at least the lights would be on right? Which fuses you think I should check now? Could it be a bad battery?

momoboy · July 16, 2012, 09:31:51 AM

I'm leaning towards a bad battery. Even if you ran out of fuel the lights would come on. When my battery was just about to die (very weak) the bike idled poorly. When I replaced it everything was fine. I don't think it is a fuse unless something shorted but on a stock bike that doesn't sound likely. Charging your battery (assuming it holds a charge) should help but if the battery is several years old and questionable I would invest in a new one. I am assuming the battery is a second one and while they can last 5 years (if a battery tender is used) you might just be ready for a new one.

FredSled · July 16, 2012, 09:37:23 AM

Almost surely the battery. Do you have a tender? If not, take it to an automotive parts store and have them check and see if it is charged, or if not, if it will take and hold a charge. That's your starting point before you start going through the electrical system.

adidasguy · July 16, 2012, 10:41:06 AM

#5070

When bike dies and nothing at all comes on, that would be the fuse.
Even if the battery dies while riding, you will not kill the bike because the stator is generating electricity.

If not the fuse, it is possible a +12 wire came off or you lost ground from the battery. So check the wires at the battery, starter relay and for any disconnected things or broken wires from the ignition switch.

Possible causes for the fuse to blow when pulling to a stop (applying brakes and going into neutral):
1. Short on front brake wires. When you pull in the front brake, a short can blow the fuse. I've seen it happen.
2. Short on the rear brake switch wires.
3. A short from the brake light wire to the frame. When the brake (either) is engaged, the switch completes a circuit to +12. If the brake light wire is shorted to the frame, you get a direct connection between +12 and ground and will blow the fuse.
4. A short at the neutral light. The neutral switch completes circuit to ground. It is protected from a short because if the light bulb. One side of the bulb is +12. The other goes to the neutral switch, which completes circuit to ground. If the lamp wires are shorted together, you get a direct connection from+12 to ground and the fuse blows (when in neutral).
5. Something else could have blown the fuse - some intermittent short somewhere.

Get the wiring diagram and your volt meter to check wiring after you verify the fuse is blown. The fuse is under the rubber cover. The exposed fuse is the spare. 20 amp only.

msforever · July 16, 2012, 12:08:51 PM

Thank you so much for all your help here, I really appreciate. Can't wait to go back home starting checking the fuse and battery after work. You guys are awesome!

BockinBboy · July 16, 2012, 03:51:56 PM

Quote from: adidasguy on July 16, 2012, 10:41:06 AM
#5070

When bike dies and nothing at all comes on, that would be the fuse.
Even if the battery dies while riding, you will not kill the bike because the stator is generating electricity.

If not the fuse, it is possible a +12 wire came off or you lost ground from the battery. So check the wires at the battery, starter relay and for any disconnected things or broken wires from the ignition switch.

Possible causes for the fuse to blow when pulling to a stop (applying brakes and going into neutral):
1. Short on front brake wires. When you pull in the front brake, a short can blow the fuse. I've seen it happen.
2. Short on the rear brake switch wires.
3. A short from the brake light wire to the frame. When the brake (either) is engaged, the switch completes a circuit to +12. If the brake light wire is shorted to the frame, you get a direct connection between +12 and ground and will blow the fuse.
4. A short at the neutral light. The neutral switch completes circuit to ground. It is protected from a short because if the light bulb. One side of the bulb is +12. The other goes to the neutral switch, which completes circuit to ground. If the lamp wires are shorted together, you get a direct connection from+12 to ground and the fuse blows (when in neutral).
5. Something else could have blown the fuse - some intermittent short somewhere.

Get the wiring diagram and your volt meter to check wiring after you verify the fuse is blown. The fuse is under the rubber cover. The exposed fuse is the spare. 20 amp only.

+10 Adidasguy

Definately sounds like the fuse. If you determine that it is the fuse, you have to find out why it blew - You don't want to get stuck out on the road somewhere.

- Bboy

FredSled · July 16, 2012, 06:11:05 PM

It could be a fuse, a bad regulator or stator, a short, etc, but it can most definitely be the battery. I've had many batteries go while riding over the past 22 years and as a result the bike often shuts down and does nothing.. nothing at all, just shuts down, no lights, no horn, nothing.

BockinBboy · July 17, 2012, 05:27:19 AM

Quote from: FredSled on July 16, 2012, 06:11:05 PM
It could be a fuse, a bad regulator or stator, a short, etc, but it can most definitely be the battery. I've had many batteries go while riding over the past 22 years and as a result the bike often shuts down and does nothing.. nothing at all, just shuts down, no lights, no horn, nothing.

You are right in that regard Fred, and I don't think anyone doubted that as a possibility - Its just the OP stated he hasn't had any trouble starting it leads me to believe otherwise. Nonetheless, a bad battery can still display the same issue - A fuse is just a simple and fast check and cheaper fix to do first, so I would definately check that first is all.

- Bboy

msforever · July 17, 2012, 11:35:30 AM

OK I checked the fuse last night, it was blew. I replaced it with a new one and it worked just fine. Took it out for a ride everything seemed alright. Also I found connectors on wires of the front turn signals had no tape or cover on the outside. I thought that might be the cause since the 2 wires were touching each other at the connectors, and that could be shorting something and burn the fuse. Put everything back and thought it was all fixed...

Took the bike to work again this morning, bike died again after 2 miles. But it is a little different this time: I was trying to accelerate from 40 to 50 mph, the bike did not agree and started slowing down. A few seconds later the engine was killed but all lights were still on. I tried to start it again the bike was clicking but would not start (or start for a second and shut right after). There is still fuel in the tank, and I turn the switch to reserve, still did not work. Called a friend and had him take the battery to a auto parts store, they checked the battery with 12.1 V but told him it is not fully charge, only at 20 - 30% or something like that. Anyway they basic told my friend the battery is fine in working condition.

I put the battery back and gave another few tries. This time the Neuture light was compeletly out (even bike was in neutral), all other lights were OK. I tried start it and the bike was not even clicking, nothing happens. A few times later all other lights were off too and I pushed it back home. Did not check the fuse yet I think it was blew at the end, but have no idea what else is causing the problems. What do you guys think now where should I start? Thank you again for your time anything helps....

Sen

BockinBboy · July 17, 2012, 11:43:18 AM

Check your wires to the neutral light. One of these connects the ground and can give you starting troubles if it is an intermittent short... and if you are continually trying to start the bike it will drain the battery and you won't get anything from it eventually, especially if it was already low.

- Bboy

adidasguy · July 17, 2012, 11:45:57 AM

#5079

When you blew the fuse, you may have taken out the voltage regulator.

You ran your bike for a while just on the battery. It wasn't charging because the voltage regulator was taken out (my guess).

Charge up the battery. Measure the voltage with your meter. Should be close to 13v. Start the bike. Measure voltage. It should be in the area of 13.5v. If lower, it is not charging.

Do a complete check over on the bike for any other shorts.

If any light comes on, the fuse is not blown.

NEUTRAL WIRE: That is a connection to ground. Grounding it allows the bike to run with the side stand down, as it is a sensor for neutral. That is its only purpose - a safety switch. Bike runs if in neutral and side stand down, or any gear with side stand up. Side stand down and in gear kills the bike (but lights still work).

msforever · July 17, 2012, 12:20:38 PM

Thanks a lot for all the help...

-adidasguy
Could you please tell me a little more about the voltage regulator? What does it look like?

adidasguy · July 17, 2012, 01:24:17 PM

#5084

The black finned thingy in the lower left. Yours might be silver or a little more squarish.
Left to right: Voltage regulator; side stand relay; flasher relay; starter relay and fuse (that red/green/bkack thingy)

msforever · July 19, 2012, 12:40:14 PM

Had been working too much these days did not have time to spend with the bike, today is time...Anyway, I did charge the battery with a tender before, turned the key all lights work except NEUTRAL light, bike still wont start. I am thinking maybe a short on the neutral wire and drained the battery before? Going to check if the battery is being charged too. Just wonder where should I start while checking the neutral wire? Do I need to take off all of the plastics...

?

Thanks a lot guys!
-Sen

adidasguy · July 19, 2012, 02:39:19 PM

#5107

Remember: If NOT in neutral and side stand is down, bike will not run.

Therefore, if the neutral switch or wire is broken, you MUST have the side stand UP for the bike to run. So sit on the bike with side stand up or put bike on center stand with side stand up. It will now run if the neutral wire/switch is broken.

On the center stand, in a quite place or with your ear near the side stand relay (next to regulator), listen for the relay clicking as you raise and lower the side stand. If it clicks, then the relay is working. That is the relay that kills the bike.

If it doesn't click:
1. You are in neutral and neutral is OK except uyour neutral light is burnt out
2. OR the relay is bad
3. OR the dual diode is bad
4. OR the relay simply is not plugged in (unplug and re-plug a couple times in case the contacts are dirty)
5. OR the side stand switch or wires are broken.

NOTE: The neutral wire/switch is a simple connection to ground. If that wire is shorted to the frame, bike will always think in neutral... the light will be on... and the bike will run.
IF the wire or switch is broken, it will not know bike is in neutral. Light will never come on. Bike will never run with the side stand down.

NOTE NOTE: The side stand switch also completes a circuit to ground. It closes the switch with the side stand UP. If the switch is broken or wire broken, bike will never run except in neutral (and only if the neutral wires are working).

NOTE NOTE NOTE: When working on electricals, take off the tail plastics so you have easy access to all that wiring.

Amazon · July 21, 2012, 05:28:32 AM

This has been all well and good, but I have a similar problem that doesn't seem to be electrical. (Thanks for posting all this trouble-shooting, btw. I got my first bike last summer, and I'm learning a ton just reading all this.)

About three weeks ago, I had the same issue - riding home from work, bike worked fine getting there, perhaps idling funny, but other than that, fine. On my way home (sat for 9 hours or so in parking lot), shifting from 3rd to 4th, bike does not respond to throttle, and dies....lights on. Gas, battery, oil, electrics work fine. Took it to the shop, they told me that the jets were plugged up and they cleaned them out. It's worked fine and I've ridden it almost every day since. This morning when I left for work, it seemed to idle fine, and I got about 2 kms (maybe a mile) and it died again. Electrics work, checked oil, gas fine, battery topped. It would start up again, but after shifting from 2nd to 3rd, it would die after a few hundred meters. After a few times of the happening, it wouldn't start unless I let it sit for a minute or two. Again, electrics working fine. Limped it home. Now I have no motivation to go to work! Any suggestions?

bombsquad83 · July 21, 2012, 05:01:04 PM

If it was clogged jets the first time, then it might be again. Is your tank rusted at all?

mister · July 22, 2012, 02:38:23 AM

Engine dies then works after a minute or two then dies again = carbs running out of fuel, then filling up slowly while you wait, then emptying again as you ride and use the fuel quicker than it enters the carbs.

By any chance do you have an added fuel filter in the line somewhere between the tank and the carbs?
Have you tried running it on res or prime when this happens? A pinched fuel line will have less fuel flow - so if your main is pinched it will not feed the carbs fast enough.

Michael

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Bike died while riding, wont start any more...