'07 GS Starting Problems -- 330 Miles from Home

[narwhal]

Hey all,

Last Thursday I rode up on my '07 GS500 from Los Angeles to the Bay Area, with my way point in Palo Alto on the way to San Rafael.  Friday morning I had a little bit of a hard crank, but I assumed that it was due to the cold(er) weather.

Driving up Hwy 1 north of SF I stopped to take some pictures, and the bike would not start up again.  A fellow rider stopped and helped me bump start it, which got me to the hotel in San Rafael.  I charged the battery overnight and the next day, held the clutch, and all I hear is a high(ish) pitched "ZZZZZZZZZZ".  This is the original battery on the bike, so went and picked up a new one, filled it, charged it up overnight.  Installed it next day, and still same "ZZZZZZZZ" sound.  Absolutely no problems on the way up before this.

Weighed the cost of staying in the hotel for what has equaled 2 more nights already, I got the bike towed to my aunts down in Palo Alto.  Aunt's friend came to the house and advised it could be a problem with the starter clutch or motor, but he wasn't sure.  He rides european bikes so could not recommend a shop to go.

Before the trip I had gotten new tires, chain/sprocket, rear brakes.  Earlier this year replaced the stator. 

Been reading all about goats and stalwarts for the past year or so, and every time I mention it to my mechanic they laugh it off (because I am a novice).  I have no idea even where to start.

I'm really just asking for some friendly advice; being so far from home should I get it towed to a pro or try and open the starter side and see if anything is loose?  I will post video in a little while.

I'm on a bay area specific forum to see if anyone can recommend a mechanic in the area, but this is my first time with a problem being so far away from someone I can trust.

Any help and wisdom will be greatly appreciated!!


Namit

[The Buddha]

Is it a  TRRRRRRR from the right side just nehind the battery - a series of T sounds or is it a ZZZZZ from the battery ...
TRRRRR = starter relay clicking on and off rapidly = bad battery.
ZZZZZ = No clue. But battery supposed to make current and voltage ... not noise.
Oh a bad regulator can overheat if the battery and fry it - make sure its not doing that.

Cool.
Buddha.

[Kiwingenuity]

is the spline of the starter motor engaging the crank? a 'zzzzz' sound could be a stripped spline - or a broken spring on the starter motor clutch assembly.

Can you bump start?

Edit:
Is the starter motor brushed? is you get a build up of crud on the commutator you would could get a partial short circuit which could stop the starter from working.

[aaronmact]

if its a zzzz! sound like from a drill its probably your starter motor. If it sounds like a buzz from the right side near the battery it might be the starter relay or even a bad ground. That is what is was with mine. 

[narwhal]

Thanks, guys.

I was able to get a 'mobile mechanic' from another forum to come over and check it out with me.  I wish LA had the same kind of rider community/camaraderie that I've seen so far up here.

Seems that the starter clutch is worn, but oddly enough he got it to start after about 10 minutes without a bump.  He recommended getting a starter clutch set, and it was probably in a certain position and worn when I couldn't get it to start.  Is the starter clutch something that can be rebuilt or cleaned vs. replacement?  I've been trying to add some pics but my connection is crawling right now.

Additionally, and this is something we discovered only after he started and rode around the block, but the little circle window on the front master cylinder was cracked and leaking fluid.  I think I'll need a whole new assembly.

I called a local shop for a quote, and they said that it would be about $410 (@#$%*@!!) just for the parts, plus three hours of labor at $100/hr.  This is a lot more than I can afford right now.

Considering the work I did before I left, I think the best option is for me to rent a truck and strap it in the back and get back to where I'm local.  This way I can avoid any issues on the long ride back, and give me a buffer of time to get the money for the repair. 

I really appreciate your help and input so far. 

I'm gonna try and research these issues a bit now...

[Kiwingenuity]

Starter clutches can be fiddly little mongrels, but not too difficult to strip and clean. I had an Isuzu 4x4 that had a vertically mounted starter that had a similar issue with a worn gear and very soft spring slipping in a certain spot. Managed to swap the spring out with not too much difficulty.

I would keep an eye out for a scrapped later model starter (they must be similar to other Suzuki models since starters are usually not model specific). Got to be a lot cheaper than a dealer new one...

Maybe someone else here may know if any other model Suzis have the same type of starter to give you wider search options.

[adidasguy]

I posted a solution but seems it was deleted.
Starter clutches rarely wear out but the starter assembly/magneto can come loose.
See this video....

[Kiwingenuity]

Thanks for the video Adidas - very informative and I will squirrel away the trick with the centre bolt spacer...

I haven't had to pull my starter assembly apart but can see that it is a bit different to how I had imagined (compared to a typical car or outboard assembly).  I can certainly see how that bolt would be prone to slipping - do they normally have thread locker on them ex. factory?

[sledge]

I have seen far more worn clutches than slipping flywheels 

Flywheels tend to come loose after they have been removed and the correct procedures for refitting have not been followed. people tend to overtighten the bolt in the belief its a case of the tighter the better when in fact its the tapers that's provide the interface. Up shot is the bolt stretches and becomes ineffective.

Overhaul kits for the starter clutch are available........... and it sounds like you need one. Someone in the sates will sell them somewhere 

http://www.wemoto.com/bikes/suzuki/gs_500_et/96/picture/starter_clutch_repair_kit/

....oh and if the flywheel is slipping the best option is to re-lap it to the crank, like this and replace the bolt which will most likely have stretched. The tapers depend on maxiumum surface contact to be effective.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bezP0s0NtLc

Ok so its a Lambretta but the theory is the same 

Of course you could always kludge it by sandpapering sandpaper the tapers if you believe that's the answer........... but that's up to you 

[The Buddha]

The GS starter clutch is a total POS ... you look @ it and you'll want to spit. Its got 3 rollers, 3 pins and 3 springs that can be upgraded by a spring out of a bic ball point pen.

Having said all that, I have almost never seen a starter clutch go on a bike with under 22k miles. That bike almost for sure had a defective pin, I think that made the spring wear out in 1 spot and break.

The thing costs like $30 or so, its freaking highway robbery. But it does not break that often.

You want a better starter clutch - there is this guy (by adidasguy's place) called l&l extreme. They will make you the bloody thing out of a hardened donut and a 9 roller dual spring setup that will knock your socks off. GS dont need it quite ... unless you're all about "never" opening the left side and hammering out the rotor with the all powerful "sliding hammer" ...

Anyway Its an OK design, you want to get something better check out L&L extreme on ebay.

Cool.
Buddha.

[adidasguy]

Thanks for the video Adidas - very informative and I will squirrel away the trick with the centre bolt spacer...

I haven't had to pull my starter assembly apart but can see that it is a bit different to how I had imagined (compared to a typical car or outboard assembly).  I can certainly see how that bolt would be prone to slipping - do they normally have thread locker on them ex. factory?

The key is that EVERYTHING must be spotless when you re-assemble it. It is a friction fit of the magneto onto the crank shaft. No oil. No thread lock. NOTHING on those surfaces. Then tighten the bolt bad ass tight to spec and then I hit it with the impact wrench for good measure.

When you use a cut off bolt as a spacer to remove it, use a strong bolt. Not the soft chinese stuff from the hardware store. I cut off an extra axle or swing arm bolt. Hard steel that won't squish in there as you screw in the bolt to remove the assembly.

Then, if the assembly is spinning on the shaft, just taking out the bolt then it all comes off.

Remove the starter gear with the magneto. Most likely if your sound is like my video, things just came loose.