Horrendous "clacking" during startup and idle

[FreshGroundPepper]

Wouldn't I just need a spacer then? And use the already existing crankshaft bolt to push it down while I remove the assembly.
I just don't understand why you would need an entirely separate bolt that has the same threading and size (not length) as the crankshaft bolt.

In any event, I can feel the pieces are loose and I've already ordered the 3 bolts that hold it together. Hopefully it won't take too long for those to arrive.

Thanks again for everybodys help!

[gsJack]

No, the 14mm threaded hole in the rotor bore provides a clearance hole for the smaller (12X40) bolt that holds the rotor to the crankshaft.  The 14mm threaded hole in the rotor is there to accomodate a puller for rotor removal. 

[FreshGroundPepper]

Ah I understand now! Thanks for clearing that up.

Lucky for me, the wheel bolts to my car are just that size, so I just need to find something to cut a spacer out of and wait for the parts.

[FreshGroundPepper]

Welp I may have just turned my working bike into a parts bike.

I made a 36mm spacer out of a bolt, took my m14x1.5 lug bolt, sent the spacer down the middle of the magnet assembly, and put the lug bolt after it. After a while the wheel started to spin so I put a block between it and the swingarm and kept going. Finally it started to get real tough and the lug bolt would no longer go further and something inside the engine was spinning. As if it was turning the crankshaft but slipping at the wheel/chain. I then pulled the m14x1.5 bolt out and the spacer was still in there, obviously unable to be removed because it was 2 inches down.


Before I scratch the VIN off and send it over the nearest cliff, any other ideas on getting off the starter clutch assembly?

[gsJack]

When the wheel is blocked in gear and the crankshaft turns it's the clutch slipping.  I had that too using a 18" breaker bar and finally broke it loose by pulling it right to the slip point and then giving it a big jerk.  Should be easy with an impact wrench but I was working in a non electric garage.

[FreshGroundPepper]

You're saying it's JUST about to pop off? And I can probably get it by, like you say, getting it to the slip point and jamming it quick?

I don't have a breaker bar sadly.

[gsJack]

Worked for me.  Maybe you can get it by blocking gears like Addy did in his vid.

http://youtu.be/GxS5yZ44AHU

[FreshGroundPepper]

Just a quick PSA to anybody who does this: Make sure you use the correct diameter of the spacer. I was under the impression THAT wasn't so important. It is.





Even if I COULD drill that out, I'm pretty sure the threads for the crankshaft bolt would be f%&ked too.

[Bluesmudge]

uh oh

I don't know what comes next for you, but in the interest of helping the next guy could you tell us what size spacer you used?

When I replaced my rotor and starter clutch I used a 3/8" spacer as discussed in this thread:
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=42350.0

Ace Hardware sells spacers made out of a nice hard steel, so you don't have to go making one if you don't want to.

I found that a combination of a strap wrench and Addy's 'allen wrench in the gears' method works great for all the different things that want to spin.

[FreshGroundPepper]

To be honest, I'm not really sure on the diameter of the spacer I used. Ill have to get it out and measure. It would have to have been JUST less than 3/8" because it seems like that's what everybody is using and it works fine for them. I would assume if you have a 3/8 spacer you should be okay, but don't quote me on that, obviously I'm not a pro at this.

Tonight I'm going to try drilling it out and re-tapping the hole. If I get far enough to tap the hole I'll call it a success.

I checked online for a replacement crankshaft and it was in the $650 range, and obviously that requires completely removing the crankcase, etc. etc. I don't exactly have a local scrap yard to get parts from but I figured there's probably plenty of totaled gs's out there with a perfect crankshaft.

[gsJack]

...................Can somebody confirm it is indeed just a M14 x 1.5 bolt plus a 33mm spacer? Also, if that's the case, if I found (unlikely, just curious) an M14 x 1.5 bolt that was an extra 33mm long would that work too?

It's a 14mmx1.5x45mm bolt needed to pull the rotor off and I made my 36mm spacer by sawing a piece of the smooth shank from a 3/8" carriage bolt.  The length of the spacer is more important than the length of the bolt, it fits down into the threaded hole in the end of the crankshaft so the M14 bolt can press on it to pull the rotor without messing up the thread in the end of the crank.

Wow, you have a mess there now FreshGroundPepper.  I mention I used a 3/8" dia spacer above, guess I better stress the diameter's importance next time.  I made sure my spacer was bottomed in the tapped hole in the crank before starting the M14 puller bolt, I should have mentioned that too. 

[FreshGroundPepper]

Yeah you mentioned it but in a few other places I looked on how to do this nobody really mentioned it. Or if they did, they didn't stress it was important, they just sorta said that was the size they found spare around their house and used.

Also the spacer I used was definitely bottomed out before I put the m14x1.5 bolt in. As in, I couldn't push it any farther with my finger. Who knows, maybe my spacer was just made out of lead or something.

Regardless, I really hope I can drill it out and everything will be good. I've been pretty damn unlucky with this fix so far so I'm hoping by bad luck has run dry.

[FreshGroundPepper]

well i'm relieved



Threads look fine. And it took all of 5 minutes to get out with a bolt extractor.

and to answer the size of the spacer: I'll be honest, both ends are pretty messed up, but it looks damn close to 3/8". Given the state of this repair though it must NOT be, my guess is 8mm. It is bent though. I believe the bending is what caused it to seize in the crankshaft and stop the m14x1.5 bolt from continually moving in and finally push the magnet assembly off.

Anyhow, i'm going to clean up everything and put the new clutch bolts on (which came in the mail today). I also have a 12x1.25 tap for the crankshaft I'll use just to clean up anything. Id rather be safe than sorry. With all that, I hope to have everything back together and oiled up mid next week.

[gsJack]

 

[Bluesmudge]

Congrats on getting that spacer out of there, I thought you would be shopping for a new engine.

[FreshGroundPepper]

Well everyone will be happy to hear the bike started up and ran just fine!*

I didn't go on a very long trip, just a few miles to run an errand, but there was 0 "clacking" during the ride.

I believe the videos in my OP are two different things, the first being a bad battery trying - and failing - to start it, the second of course being the loose starter clutch.

To anybody that comes across this thread I have two suggestions:

First get a nice, big, leather, strap wrench for tightening and loosening the crankshaft bolt. Here's the exact one I ordered. The board-in-wheel, or high-gear-with-foot-on-rear-break methods all do work, but I struggled quite a bit and spent quite some time trying to perfect them when I could have just ordered that tool. If you're not in the mood to spend $20 though, it completely understandable.

Secondly, make sure you DO use the right sized spacer in both width and length (smooth, 3/8" width, 36mm length). Obviously I didn't think the width was so important and it got me into a mess. Thankfully a basic bolt extractor was all that was needed and it came out QUITE easily so I had some luck.

Also, not really a suggestion but if anybody is looking for an m14x1.5 bolt, it's a very common lug bolt for german cars, e.g. Audi, BMW, etc. If you've got a neighbor or somebody you can take a bolt from and borrow it for 20 minutes to do this, you won't have to buy one.

And one last thought: could a single m14x1.5 bolt with no spacer do the trick? I know I've been told a thousand times the spacer needs to go in. The only reason I ask is if you look at my picture where the spacer is stuck down the crankshaft, it's deeper that the m14x1.5 bolt could go which makes me think I just cranked the m14 bolt down - while pushing the spacer in - until the m14 bolt finally made contact and pushed the whole assembly off. I only had a 27mm m14 bolt so I would think anything that size or larger could work if somebody wants to test.

In any event, thanks a ton to everybody who helped! I'm glad I got it figured out. I'll add a note to the videos I posted to anybody that comes across them.

*Now there's an odd sound coming completely randomly as I coast or decelerate. It's the sound of a loose strap banging the side of the frame or tank... I don't think that's it because I'd see it, but that's EXACTLY what it sounds like. I'm 99% sure that sound and the things I just got done fixing aren't related but I'll look into it and start a new thread if I need help.

[Bluesmudge]

First get a nice, big, leather, strap wrench for tightening and loosening the crankshaft bolt. Here's the exact one I ordered. The board-in-wheel, or high-gear-with-foot-on-rear-break methods all do work, but I struggled quite a bit and spent quite some time trying to perfect them when I could have just ordered that tool. If you're not in the mood to spend $20 though, it completely understandable.

This.

The $5 strap wrench from Harbor Freight will not work when it comes time to tighten the rotor bolt to spec. The cashier even warned me that it was crap. I was able to use it to undo the bolts, but it broke before reaching the specified torque when putting everything back together. I just put an allen wrench in the gears, like in Addys video, but that could cause damage.

[FreshGroundPepper]

First get a nice, big, leather, strap wrench for tightening and loosening the crankshaft bolt. Here's the exact one I ordered. The board-in-wheel, or high-gear-with-foot-on-rear-break methods all do work, but I struggled quite a bit and spent quite some time trying to perfect them when I could have just ordered that tool. If you're not in the mood to spend $20 though, it completely understandable.

This.

The $5 strap wrench from Harbor Freight will not work when it comes time to tighten the rotor bolt to spec. The cashier even warned me that it was crap. I was able to use it to undo the bolts, but it broke before reaching the specified torque when putting everything back together. I just put an allen wrench in the gears, like in Addys video, but that could cause damage.

Yep I did addys allen wrench trick as well here and there, but I too was nervous it could damage something.