Bad shim stock from some chinese suppliers ?

[deniskin]

This year June i have same problem with broken valve shim
during regular valves clearance checking two original shims 2.60 was replaced on aftermarket 2.55
after  ~1500 km one intake vlv shim broken on aprox ~7k rpm.
i stop engine immediately
was replaced one intake valve tappet, intake cam and instalend SGP shims)

defective aftermarket shims was purchaced here

http://www.ebay.com/itm/29-5mm-Diameter-Valve-Shim-Size-2-55-SUZUKI-GS550-GS650-GS750-GS850-GS1000-etc-/161304495465?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item258e7f4569&vxp=mtr

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Big Rich]

Do we have any metallurgists here? I work in a machine shop and have access to a Niton Alloy Analyzer (determines the percentage of different metals like cadmium, nickel, etc) in a piece of metal. I also have access to a Brinell hardness tester (or Rockwell hardness tester). If somebody wants to donate a couple shims I can have them tested and check the differences. New, used, OEM, cheap aftermarket, etc.

I do want to say: the hardness test will destroy the shim though.

[The_Paragon]

As you know, Amkluttz and I both had the same problem, broken valve shims.

He contacted me to see if I'd sent him a new bucket since he was able to repair his engine (mine had to be replaced). To make a long story short, i grabbed a bucket, removed it and decided I'd keep the shim that was in it (even though its a replaced K&L shim)
Grabbed a flat pick and went to pop the shim out barely touched the shim.

The next 1000 words can be seen below

[attachment deleted by admin]

[The_Paragon]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/29-5mm-Diameter-Valve-Shim-Size-2-55-SUZUKI-GS550-GS650-GS750-GS850-GS1000-etc-/161304495465?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item258e7f4569&vxp=mtr

^ I looked at the ebay page. Its a K&L supply shim

[bombsquad83]

When I did my valve check 4000 miles ago, I used shims from here:
http://www.newmotorcycleparts.com/motor_parts/valve_shims.html
I'm hoping they don't use the same supplier.  I will be ordering OEM shims next time!  I'm surprised to hear that dealerships are ordering and using aftermarket shims on customer's bikes.  I would think this would be against policy, as the OEM would want them to use parts that are under their own quality standards.

[HPP8140]

Wow! I've always swapped shims with my local dealers.

[The_Paragon]

When I did my valve check 4000 miles ago, I used shims from here:
http://www.newmotorcycleparts.com/motor_parts/valve_shims.html
I'm hoping they don't use the same supplier.  I will be ordering OEM shims next time!  I'm surprised to hear that dealerships are ordering and using aftermarket shims on customer's bikes.  I would think this would be against policy, as the OEM would want them to use parts that are under their own quality standards.

If I were wearing your shoes right now, I'd pull the valve cover and replace them with suzuki shims, especially if they're K&L's (which is seeming to be the faulty shims). It might cost you $80 or something for 4 shims.. but its better than trying to find a motor for $800 or trying to fix the current one, if its at all savageable at all.

[bombsquad83]

Wow! I've always swapped shims with my local dealers.

There's a scary thought.  These shims will be on the market and swapped into dealers stock for a while.  Who knows what you are getting. 

Is there any way to gaurentee that you get them directly from suzuki?  I guess I would look when I got them and see if they are in a sealed suzuki bag with the part number.

[The_Paragon]

Is there any way to gaurentee that you get them directly from suzuki?  I guess I would look when I got them and see if they are in a sealed suzuki bag with the part number.

It looks like the K&L shims are labled 2-55 or 2-50.

Each mfg has a little differet font or way to etch the # into the shim.

If you compare the fonts it shouldnt be too hard to pick out a suzuki shim.

[bombsquad83]

Good point.  I don't believe mine were labeled in this way.

[HPP8140]

Wow! I've always swapped shims with my local dealers.

There's a scary thought.  These shims will be on the market and swapped into dealers stock for a while.  Who knows what you are getting. 

Is there any way to gaurentee that you get them directly from suzuki?  I guess I would look when I got them and see if they are in a sealed suzuki bag with the part number.

Yeah, haven't had issues in over 70k miles. My dealer is nice enough to bring out a box and let me swap shims...think it's an oem box.

[HPP8140]

Good point.  I don't believe mine were labeled in this way.

yeah I haven't seen one with a dash

[The_Paragon]

Well, after i take a few pics, K&L is going to get a nice heartfelt letter from me. I dont expect that they'll do anything about it, let alone even reply to me, but Its worth a shot. And if anything it brings some attention to the faulty product that they're supplying.

I've had luck with contacting other companies about their products. Hi-flo sent me a replacement filter that worked much better on the GS than the one they reccomend, Cramp buster replaced a broken cramp buster, Ruger fixed a handgun of mine, no charge and sent me a bunch of swag besides! Its always worth a shot, right!

[The Buddha]

OMFG .... Looks like crapalloy form china has been upgraded to potato chipalloy.
Cool.
Buddha.

[bombsquad83]

I wasn't impressed with K&L carb rebuild kit quality vs OEM either.  Ending up needing to get OEM needle valve sets.

[twocool]

It is starting to look like the common thread here is the K&L brand!

Is there any other common thread?  Like wide clearances?  or high rpm?

I think I remember reading somewhere that K&L shims were made of a harder material than stock, and that this was bad because it would wear the cam rather than the shim....

In my experience..."hardness" usually means"brittleness"...hmmmm this whole deal is disconcerting to me!


Cookie

[The Buddha]

I would think shims are like cams - they are parkerized - its not quite hardened.
And hardening isn't always going to render the metal brittle. It depends on the base alloy. I have some tools - in fact they are chinese, that are not brittle at al, but yet they are hard as glass. The composition of the metal that is hardened determines what it ends up like.
Cool.
Buddha.

[twocool]

Interesting info....metallurgy is some crazy science....It seems to me there a lot of easy ways to get it wrong...and only one way to get it right!

The shims which are breaking and shattering are "hard" and "brittle"...not good...

seems like we want hard, but not too hard, and not too brittle...

so is it K&L that is the problem?

Should we stick with OEM Suzuki shims?


Cookie

I would think shims are like cams - they are parkerized - its not quite hardened.
And hardening isn't always going to render the metal brittle. It depends on the base alloy. I have some tools - in fact they are chinese, that are not brittle at al, but yet they are hard as glass. The composition of the metal that is hardened determines what it ends up like.
Cool.
Buddha.

[The Buddha]

If you can make sure they are suzuki shims ? Heck who knows, maybe the later suzuki stuff is junk too.
Our shim kits have been around since 2004-5, probably have had many mixed in from all sorts of vintages.
There is a few people I know who can analyze and make shims - but we need to be prepared to order a 1000 lot with no more than say 10 sizes, like 100 per size, and they cant number each one, you're gonna have to measure it and use it.
Cool.
Buddha.

[The_Paragon]

Well I sent K&L an email. With lots of pics, explainations and expectations on what I want to come of the situation.
I got a reply from Anthony of the R&D department. They're filing a claim with wherever they get the shims from. I'll have get some receipts and etc for them and they might want whats left of the shims to check them out.

Thats about the only info I have at the moment.