Insurance Facts from a Professional

[GatorTrae]

First of all, your mileage *WILL* vary. 
Second, there are Always exceptions to the rules.
Third,  this information is specific to one company and one state. It's similar across most states though.

A little back ground, I am an insurance underwriter for a major P&C company. We work in 20+ states in central USA.
I'm not naming names... I like my job.

There are MANY factors to figure into your insurance rates. Some of them are listed below:
Age, Credit Score, Driving record, Prior Insurance, Claim History, City etc.

Then there are factors related to your bike:
Age, Value, CC, Type (standard, cruiser, SS, Touring)

Of these factors, there are only a few of them you have control over.   Your best bet is to listen to what your mother told you about driving.  STOP SPEEDING and TAILGATING.   With these two things under control, you will be well on your way to a clean 36 or 60 month driving record. If you have that and no or few claims (two or less) you have shot at a preferred market company.  NOT Progressive or The General or ESurance.   There are plenty of good insurance companies out there, if you don't have one of preference, find an independent agent and have them shop for you.

Back to Bikes - Standard bikes are the where the rates are based. Touring bikes get 33% discount off that. SS bikes get a 50% surcharge added.    The E's are easy to class as standard. The F's though we need to be clear that these are not SS bikes. They will argue the difference is in the damage to the plastics during a crash.  We all know the plastics are not worth a 50% surcharge.

The base rates for CC is 501-750, under that for a discount and over it for a surcharge. ranges are 0-100 / 101-200 / 201-350 / 351-500 / 501-750 / 751-900 / 901-1050 / 1051-1150 / 1151+ . Interestingly the rates for 751+ are about the same even though the company separates them.

Back to YOU - Age - if you're under 24 the factor is 3.56 over the base rates.  24-29 its 1.77 the base. 30-49 you are the base rates, then 50-59 its only 0.80, for 60-69 is 0.76, then for 70+ its back up to 0.82.   
As you can see, if you're under 24, put the bike on your dad's insurance and don't crash it.  Heck pay him double the rate he gets and be happy you're saving 150%. 

Prior Insurance and Claim History:
Get insurance and keep if continuous. Don't have gaps in coverage dates.  Don't let it lapse for non-payment.  We are more strict than your credit company. We don't have to keep your policy if you don't pay us.  I tell agents no every day for people that don't pay me on time.
If you have a real claim, turn it in. If you hit your own mailbox, fix it yourself. You'll pay less in the long run.

Deductibles and Comprehensive/Collision:  I chose a low deductible. I mean the bike is worth 500 to 4000 depending on age, miles etc.  Really don't want to have to come up with another $1,000 to replace it if (when) I crash it.  If you can get a quote for $250 ded. consider it.
My policy provides Comp/Coll on a stated value, this means the MAX they would pay me if it's crashed or stolen.  I said $3000 even though I bought it for $1900.  Thing is, you don't know when you will be shopping for a replacement (if its winter and prices are down or summer and they're up)  I saw plenty for sale at $2500-3500 when I was searching for mine. It took a long time before I found the right one.  If mine is trashed or stolen, I want it replaced right now and will buy what's on the market and not look for six months.  The extra premium was just a few dollars.

Well, that's it for now. See you in the Comments.   

[Old Mechanic]

I carry no collision on any of my vehicles. The wife carries $1k deductible on her Sorento, which is worth about 48 times the money I paid for the 23 year old Sentra. Been with State Farm for almst 50 years. Bike insurance is $100 a year, car is $260. I carry comprehensive and towing on a 23 year old car.

Since I can fix most mechanical and body repair myself, and both current operating vehicles cost me $950 total purchase price, I carry insurance to cover situations like the one serious accident I had 28 years ago.

The wife got into an accident a few years ago and my buddy saved her the deductible by repairing a couple of parts instead of replacing them. We have not owed money on a vehicle in close to 25 years.

regards
mech

[Dr.McNinja]

I carry no collision on any of my vehicles. The wife carries $1k deductible on her Sorento, which is worth about 48 times the money I paid for the 23 year old Sentra. Been with State Farm for almst 50 years. Bike insurance is $100 a year, car is $260. I carry comprehensive and towing on a 23 year old car.

Since I can fix most mechanical and body repair myself, and both current operating vehicles cost me $950 total purchase price, I carry insurance to cover situations like the one serious accident I had 28 years ago.

The wife got into an accident a few years ago and my buddy saved her the deductible by repairing a couple of parts instead of replacing them. We have not owed money on a vehicle in close to 25 years.

regards
mech

My family has been financially pillaged by state farm. They are literally the worst company I have ever dealt with, and will go out of my way to tell everyone I know to stay the f%$k away from them. I'm a safe driver, I bought my motorcycle and they wanted to charge me $120 for full coverage on a GS500F. For the record, I can get full coverage on a 636 from progressive for just shy of $90.

Then, when I tried to get my car off of the insurance, they insisted because I lived with my parents that I be put under a car at the house "for legal reasons" (theres no substance to this) even though the DMV has record of at least one vehicle insured under my name.

Then, just as things couldn't get any worse with state farm I got into a fender bender as a kid that caused no damage (it was essentially a low speed love tap in a parking lot, there wasn't even a dent or paint ding). The person who drove the car complained to state farm because I did the honest thing and gave that person my insurance information, and state farm said "there was no damage", but still charged me 50%+ more until I turned 20-something.

State farm is literally the worst company I've ever dealt with. I've met thugs nicer than them.




In regards to the rest of the topic, I never fully cover anything unless there's a loan involved and it's a part of the agreement. Plastics are cheap, repairs are cheap, so you mostly just need state minimum coverage on everything but uninsured since as a motorcycle you cannot possibly do enough damage to a car to justify more. If you could, you'd be dead and it wouldn't matter anyway. The real rule is - if the bike is fun to be on the insurance companies will charge you more.

Deductible wise, unless your bike is brand new off the lot there's no point in having a low deductible. If you wreck your bike completely you may as well just buy a new one. I would carry this mentality all the way up to around $8000 value before I'd even consider decreasing my deductible.


Of course obligatory I'm not an insurance agent and this isn't advice.

[J_Walker]

insurance is a scam, and honestly should be regulated by the government to an extreme extent.

You have a policy where you PAY EXTRA. where if your vehicle is towed to a repair place, because it broke down, your insurance company drops you like a bad habit.

no offense. but I don't care how "friendly" you are, or want to pretend to be.

I hate insurance company's almost as much as I hate towing "company's" SCAM. WHEN THEY CAN DROP YOU WHEN EVER THE F*** They want, for no reason other then you got into an accident ON A MOTORCYCLE. AND THAT INSURANCE COMPANY DOESN'T EVEN COVER YOUR MOTORCYCLE, ANOTHER COMPANY DOES.

Inb4 you tell me, or someone tells me not to get mad at this dude for doing his job. HES APART OF THE PROBLEM. /rant/

[Dr.McNinja]

insurance is a scam, and honestly should be regulated by the government to an extreme extent.

You have a policy where you PAY EXTRA. where if your vehicle is towed to a repair place, because it broke down, your insurance company drops you like a bad habit.

no offense. but I don't care how "friendly" you are, or want to pretend to be.

I hate insurance company's almost as much as I hate towing "company's" SCAM. WHEN THEY CAN DROP YOU WHEN EVER THE F*** They want, for no reason other then you got into an accident ON A MOTORCYCLE. AND THAT INSURANCE COMPANY DOESN'T EVEN COVER YOUR MOTORCYCLE, ANOTHER COMPANY DOES.

Inb4 you tell me, or someone tells me not to get mad at this dude for doing his job. HES APART OF THE PROBLEM. /rant/

Nope you're pretty much spot on. Much like healthcare, the government really needs to step in and cap out their earnings. They're incentivized to fill the risk pool with only people who aren't risky - which makes them a ponzi scheme and not insuring against anything. But I've never heard of an insurance company dropping you before payout. IANAL, but you'd probably have a decent contract case against them if they did that. I've been with progressive for 4 years now and had my bike towed a few times, and it never cost me anything.

[MeeLee]

Are we talking about car, or motorcycle insurance?
Motorcycle insurance in Florida is not required by law.
PIP for bikes under 700 something cc's, is like $75 per year, with a collateral damage of upto $10k (your bike is not covered), and insurance of the person you're hitting of under $50k.

That being said, I think I should get it. I've been saving my money for a few years, never had a collision, thank God, but I think I'll pay the PIP for next year (after may that is for me).

[twocool]

You have to be very careful with this concept of "over-insuring".  It doesn't work the way you may think.

Let's say you bought your bike for $1900.  But you insure it for $3000 with at $250 deductible.

Well you figure if you total that bike you're gonna get a check from the INS CO. for $2750...right?

Wrong!   

They're gonna write a check for  the MARKET value of that bike...

So let's say you did well when you bought that bike, and although you paid $1900, the MARKET value is say $2200....

So when you total that bike, the INS CO is gonna look a similar bikes for sale...the sale price , not the asking price, and determine that the market value for your bike is $2200.  So they will send you a check for $1950.....

They will happily take the overpaid premium...but they are not gonna pay out more than the market value minus the deductible.

So over-insuring is a looser in the long run.

Always insure your stuff for the market value...

Under-insuring has its problems too....so don't do that either...

If over insuring actually worked, I would quickly parley my GS 500 into a Ferrari....LOL

Cookie

First of all, your mileage *WILL* vary. 
Second, there are Always exceptions to the rules.
Third,  this information is specific to one company and one state. It's similar across most states though.

A little back ground, I am an insurance underwriter for a major P&C company. We work in 20+ states in central USA.
I'm not naming names... I like my job.

There are MANY factors to figure into your insurance rates. Some of them are listed below:
Age, Credit Score, Driving record, Prior Insurance, Claim History, City etc.

Then there are factors related to your bike:
Age, Value, CC, Type (standard, cruiser, SS, Touring)

Of these factors, there are only a few of them you have control over.   Your best bet is to listen to what your mother told you about driving.  STOP SPEEDING and TAILGATING.   With these two things under control, you will be well on your way to a clean 36 or 60 month driving record. If you have that and no or few claims (two or less) you have shot at a preferred market company.  NOT Progressive or The General or ESurance.   There are plenty of good insurance companies out there, if you don't have one of preference, find an independent agent and have them shop for you.

Back to Bikes - Standard bikes are the where the rates are based. Touring bikes get 33% discount off that. SS bikes get a 50% surcharge added.    The E's are easy to class as standard. The F's though we need to be clear that these are not SS bikes. They will argue the difference is in the damage to the plastics during a crash.  We all know the plastics are not worth a 50% surcharge.

The base rates for CC is 501-750, under that for a discount and over it for a surcharge. ranges are 0-100 / 101-200 / 201-350 / 351-500 / 501-750 / 751-900 / 901-1050 / 1051-1150 / 1151+ . Interestingly the rates for 751+ are about the same even though the company separates them.

Back to YOU - Age - if you're under 24 the factor is 3.56 over the base rates.  24-29 its 1.77 the base. 30-49 you are the base rates, then 50-59 its only 0.80, for 60-69 is 0.76, then for 70+ its back up to 0.82.   
As you can see, if you're under 24, put the bike on your dad's insurance and don't crash it.  Heck pay him double the rate he gets and be happy you're saving 150%. 

Prior Insurance and Claim History:
Get insurance and keep if continuous. Don't have gaps in coverage dates.  Don't let it lapse for non-payment.  We are more strict than your credit company. We don't have to keep your policy if you don't pay us.  I tell agents no every day for people that don't pay me on time.
If you have a real claim, turn it in. If you hit your own mailbox, fix it yourself. You'll pay less in the long run.

Deductibles and Comprehensive/Collision:  I chose a low deductible. I mean the bike is worth 500 to 4000 depending on age, miles etc.  Really don't want to have to come up with another $1,000 to replace it if (when) I crash it.  If you can get a quote for $250 ded. consider it.
My policy provides Comp/Coll on a stated value, this means the MAX they would pay me if it's crashed or stolen.  I said $3000 even though I bought it for $1900.  Thing is, you don't know when you will be shopping for a replacement (if its winter and prices are down or summer and they're up)  I saw plenty for sale at $2500-3500 when I was searching for mine. It took a long time before I found the right one.  If mine is trashed or stolen, I want it replaced right now and will buy what's on the market and not look for six months.  The extra premium was just a few dollars.

Well, that's it for now. See you in the Comments.   

[Dr.McNinja]

Are we talking about car, or motorcycle insurance?
Motorcycle insurance in Florida is not required by law.
PIP for bikes under 700 something cc's, is like $75 per year, with a collateral damage of upto $10k (your bike is not covered), and insurance of the person you're hitting of under $50k.

That being said, I think I should get it. I've been saving my money for a few years, never had a collision, thank God, but I think I'll pay the PIP for next year (after may that is for me).

It's smart to have insurance to protect against theft at the very least. It's so easy to steal a motorcycle, and many insurance companies will give you a solid discount if you lojack your bike.

[floatingLomas]

insurance is a scam, and honestly should be regulated by the government to an extreme extent.

Move to BC, Canada.  Then you can get your inusrance through the Insurance Corporation of British Columbia - a Crown Corporation - and you'll have just what you want.

Just be aware, as an example:

If you move here as a 61-year-old with 35 years of safe motorcycling experience but can't prove claims-free status, and you insure your Goldwing, you WILL be paying WAY more than the 16-year-old on his GSX-R750 - he'll be paying about 1,500, and I think you'd be somewhere above 2k for the year (ish) - because BC only cares about the displacement of a bike and how long you've been driving (any/everything) without claims.

I have < 6 months motorcycling experience, but my 10+ years safe driving gives me a 43% discount on my GS500, so I only pay ~$875/yr for mine.  If i were able to make a (600cc) Moto2 bike road-legal for BC, I would pay the same insurance for that as I do for my GS500 - which is also the same as what I'd pay for a GSX-R750, or a Rebel 450.

[twocool]

WTF!!!!!!!!!!

$875 a year...WITH a 40% discount?   On a bike worth $2K  ?

WTF?


My GS cost $110 per year...NJ...USA...


Cookie

insurance is a scam, and honestly should be regulated by the government to an extreme extent.

Move to BC, Canada.  Then you can get your inusrance through the Insurance Corporation of British Columbia - a Crown Corporation - and you'll have just what you want.

Just be aware, as an example:

If you move here as a 61-year-old with 35 years of safe motorcycling experience but can't prove claims-free status, and you insure your Goldwing, you WILL be paying WAY more than the 16-year-old on his GSX-R750 - he'll be paying about 1,500, and I think you'd be somewhere above 2k for the year (ish) - because BC only cares about the displacement of a bike and how long you've been driving (any/everything) without claims.

I have < 6 months motorcycling experience, but my 10+ years safe driving gives me a 43% discount on my GS500, so I only pay ~$875/yr for mine.  If i were able to make a (600cc) Moto2 bike road-legal for BC, I would pay the same insurance for that as I do for my GS500 - which is also the same as what I'd pay for a GSX-R750, or a Rebel 450.

[GatorTrae]

Two Cool - seriously the difference in premium from 1900 to 2500 to 3000 was small , like $15-20 per year.  I agree the amount paid is specific to the market value. In summer there are no cheap bikes.  I know I could get less than $3k. I'm ok with that. I just want it replaced and not have to come up with another $400-1400 because I was too cheap to pay $20/ year.

Also there are several ways to settle a claim. Stated Amount, Replacement Cost and Actual Cash Value (RC- depreciation).

[twocool]

Overpaying premium...even if it is only $20...is still overpaying...and in no way guarantees that you're gonna get the value YOU think you should get.

If this was true...I would insure my gs for $10K and have an "accident"...

Then I'd buy another GS for $2K and pocket the $8K....

You might convince the insurance company your $1900 bike is worth $3K..but I doubt it.

You can buy GS500 all over the place for $2500 and under, in good condition with low miles...

You think the insurance company doesn't know this?

Cookie

Two Cool - seriously the difference in premium from 1900 to 2500 to 3000 was small , like $15-20 per year.  I agree the amount paid is specific to the market value. In summer there are no cheap bikes.  I know I could get less than $3k. I'm ok with that. I just want it replaced and not have to come up with another $400-1400 because I was too cheap to pay $20/ year.

Also there are several ways to settle a claim. Stated Amount, Replacement Cost and Actual Cash Value (RC- depreciation).

[GatorTrae]

To those who read this or post about insurance companies or healthcare or education and want to rage against the machine....
Please know most of the people in these industries are just normal people trying to make a living and get home to their families each night just like you and me.

Because I see the policies we write and the claims we settle I know I'm doing a good thing and helping people.   I'm sure there are some insurance agents on here too.  We are all there for you when disaster strikes. 

I wanted to keep this to insurance FACTS and not get into a b*tch fest about who got screwed by what company....

Also I forgot to post a little last night.

Discounts!!!

MSF class 10% off
Alarm system 5% comp
Multi-car 10% - (car+bike maybe not bike+bike)
Multi-policy - varies by other lines of business.


See you in the comments
Trae

[GatorTrae]

Two cool  - Yes they do know that. the companies use the same search and value sources we use to determine the amount of the loss. 
I agree I'm not going to pocket the difference. I'm not trying to as that's fraud! and I am not going to bite the hand that feeds me.
I don't feel I'm over insuring or over paying.  I had to list a stated amount or a MAX value for the bike. 

[twocool]

Well, you are valuing a $1900 bike for $3000....

That's 58% over.....

I could see  plus or minus 5% but not 58%..

Hey...if your happy...

Just let me know when you total the bike what they pay you...

BTW.....I have only liability insurance on my stuff....

I figure my GS (with 48,000 miles) is only worth $1000...so if I wreck it, I'll either fix it, or junk it, and move on...now way am I gonna pay insurance on such a little value...



Cookie

Two cool  - Yes they do know that. the companies use the same search and value sources we use to determine the amount of the loss. 
I agree I'm not going to pocket the difference. I'm not trying to as that's fraud! and I am not going to bite the hand that feeds me.
I don't feel I'm over insuring or over paying.  I had to list a stated amount or a MAX value for the bike.

[twocool]

https://www.lelandwest.com/stated-value-vs-agreed-value-classic-car-insurance.cfm


Gator...which kind of insurance do you have? 

Cookie

[twocool]

http://lifehacker.com/research-the-value-of-your-totaled-car-before-accepting-5994640

Here's an example of how insurance companies are not nice...

Unfortunately you must not trust them and know how to protect yourself.

Cookie

[MeeLee]

Are we talking about car, or motorcycle insurance?
Motorcycle insurance in Florida is not required by law.
PIP for bikes under 700 something cc's, is like $75 per year, with a collateral damage of upto $10k (your bike is not covered), and insurance of the person you're hitting of under $50k.

That being said, I think I should get it. I've been saving my money for a few years, never had a collision, thank God, but I think I'll pay the PIP for next year (after may that is for me).

It's smart to have insurance to protect against theft at the very least. It's so easy to steal a motorcycle, and many insurance companies will give you a solid discount if you lojack your bike.

Ok,
My bike was $2k, $3k with all the mods and work I did on it (just for fun and experimenting, and tools and oil/filter changes, tag transfer, etc...

If my annual PIP will be $75, how much will be a theft insurance, with lojack per year?
If they steal a bike, they usually steal a sportsbike, not a worn out 2004 500cc $2k bike...

Theft insurance only makes sense if you don't have property to put your bike on (parked on the streets), and your bike is relatively new, and $5k up in second hand value...

I don't think it does any good insuring sub 500cc bikes... At least not where I live...

[Dr.McNinja]

Are we talking about car, or motorcycle insurance?
Motorcycle insurance in Florida is not required by law.
PIP for bikes under 700 something cc's, is like $75 per year, with a collateral damage of upto $10k (your bike is not covered), and insurance of the person you're hitting of under $50k.

That being said, I think I should get it. I've been saving my money for a few years, never had a collision, thank God, but I think I'll pay the PIP for next year (after may that is for me).

It's smart to have insurance to protect against theft at the very least. It's so easy to steal a motorcycle, and many insurance companies will give you a solid discount if you lojack your bike.

Ok,
My bike was $2k, $3k with all the mods and work I did on it (just for fun and experimenting, and tools and oil/filter changes, tag transfer, etc...

If my annual PIP will be $75, how much will be a theft insurance, with lojack per year?
If they steal a bike, they usually steal a sportsbike, not a worn out 2004 500cc $2k bike...

Theft insurance only makes sense if you don't have property to put your bike on (parked on the streets), and your bike is relatively new, and $5k up in second hand value...

I don't think it does any good insuring sub 500cc bikes... At least not where I live...

Mods don't tend to add value, the more you mod your bike, the less equity you actually have in it. For example, an unmodded GS500F will fetch $2800 here, a tastefully modded one (exhaust/jets/filters) might fetch $2500, with a custom paint job + a bunch of other stuff fetching well under $1500. You also vastly underestimate criminals. They will steal anything that isn't locked down. To answer your question directly though, if your bike is worth less than $3500 street value (not personal-feelings-and-mods value), lojacking it probably isn't worth it.

That goes the same for insurance. Unless you have accessory coverage it doesn't matter if your bike is gold plated, the insurance company will give you fair market value.

Also at $75/yr. you would be a fool to not have insurance. I pay $300/yr. with mins and theft on my bike and I consider that extremely reasonable.

[MeeLee]

So, if I would be paying $225 a year just for theft, would it be worth it?
even if the bike is worth only $2000, they probably only give $1500 back for it.
That's 6 years and the insurance money I paid extra, would have paid itself back.
So, unless you plan on getting a bike stolen every 6 years, I would say it's not needed...