What do you do when you can no longer do valve adjustments?

[gsJack]

Was thinking about this today so went out to the barn to get a bucket and down to the basement to get shims to look at, my stuff is all over since last years move.     Smallest shim I had was a 230 so got pictures of bucket with and without shims.  There is a nice groove around the bottom of the shim c'bore in the bucket so shims ground flat would not need a chamfer or radius with ground side down.  The 230 shim sticks up about .012" above the bucket so it figures a 200 shim would be flush with bucket top.

If my 97 hadn't been totalled I would have gone down to a 200 shim for a fix before grinding the valve stem.  If it was already down to a 200 like Yoda is on one exhaust valve think I would have gone ahead with grinding the valve stem right off.   Think I'd call it quits at 200 on how far I'd go.    I was thinking of grinding it in place without pulling the head, if it didn't work out could then pull head and lap in new exhaust valves.

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[Yoda]

I think grinding a 200 shim is too much of a gamble for me, so that option is off the table.

I'm still considering grinding the stems, but I've got an opportunity to get my hands on a used head this weekend. Depending on the condition of that head my problem *might* be solved. (fingers crossed).

Hopefully I can simply swap out the head and then spend some time repairing the old one after the bike is running.

[W201028]

Cool deal jack, thanks for looking into that. While we might in theory be able to grind it down below the bucket, and still have the cam clear the lips, I dont think I would risk it either. Once it gets too thin, one could imagine the shim deforming under high rpm impact.
Yoda, you might be on the right track getting a spare head. Its alot easier to do a good job on a motor when you arent in a rush to get it together and go ride! Let us know how it looks, and dont be afraid to bring a straight edge and feeler guages to check the head for flatness. Even if its in spec, you can tell the seller its not and you would need to have it resurfaced, but you would be happy to give them half the asking price 

[Yoda]

The new head didn't cost me anything, drnickriviera sold his GS and was getting rid of spare parts. He said the guy that he got the head from said that it was off a running engine. Anything in particular I should check before I try putting it in my bike?

All but one of the buckets can be rotated by hand, I need to figure out why the last one is stuck (I assumed they only stuck when pressing too tightly on the cam).

[The Buddha]

I've been thinking about this. I'm pretty sure we could get a machinist to make 200-300 shims if we ordered 5-10 of each size. They should be speced to the old hardness and have numbers written on em, but otherwise its not that big a deal.
If someone has contacts - try em, I will see if I can find a couple I know around here.
Cool.
Buddha.

[Yoda]

One of the buckets in the new head was stuck. Took a bit of time + WD-40 to get it out. Not really sure why it was stuck yet.   

I checked all the shim sizes, two of them where marked 265 and the the etching was gone on the last two so I measured with a micrometer (265 and 270). One of them doesn't look like a stock suzuki shim (missing the little bevel), but I think I have another 265 around here somewhere that is stock, so no big deal.

3 of the valves look good but the left exhaust valve looks a bit burnt. Gotta take my current head off and see what mine look like.

If I have a good exhaust valve in my old head would be be completely idiotic to just swap it with the burnt valve in the new head? (obviously it would have to be ground to to seal in the new head... but I can do that with valve grinding compound and a power drill  )

[W201028]

Probably could, we would need to know the specific grade of steel too. I know from experience these are not very magnetic, but I would be guessing at the metallurgy. My shop wouldnt take on a small job like that, but Ill ask around to see if any of the older guys know what type to use. Theres on old man in the shop that made his own two stroke motor, and I mean everything. He has some con rods and pistons he made in his toolbox!

Edit; looks like we posted at the same time. As long as the valve is in good shape and straight, I see no reason you cant swap them if needed.

[Yoda]

I gotta check the condition of my valves first, but I'm definitely leaning towards that option.

I've never had any trouble finding shims (last time I needed some I just talked to one of the guys out in the shop at my local dealer, he gave me 4 shims for like $9).

If y'all really want to get new shims made I'll ask around. I've got some contacts through work that might do it (or at least know who would).

Anyone know what these shims are made of and what hardness they are?

[The Buddha]

Theres on old man in the shop that made his own two stroke motor, and I mean everything. He has some con rods and pistons he made in his toolbox!

Old man = the best machinist. LOL. My favorite guy (made the case covers, braces, and kat stems - died a few yrs ago) Wasn't ever able to find another.

Cool.
Buddha.

[Yoda]

Tried to get my cylinder head off last night but it's pulling the cylinder up with it (can't get both out of the frame at the same time, so that's a problem). I can't get the dang thing un-stuck  and it's driving me nuts. I've undone the nuts on the 8 studs and the little upside down bolt in the front that holds the two together. Any ideas what else could be holding the two together?

I'm thinking about re-doing my piston rings and re-honing the cylinders while I'm in there... but this all hinges on being able to get it out of the bike in the first place. 

[cWj]

[W201028]

Be careful; do NOT pry on the fins, this can result in damage that will affect cooling. Use a rubber mallet and a piece of wood to tap upwards on the head, while holding the block down. Get help from a friend if needed. Its not worth the damage to pry on a fin or gasket surface.

[noworries]

Good old fashioned  Aussie engineering....the A$ is down in the cellar.......overseas post at $33 for 500g.....give 'em a try....

http://www.precisionshims.com.au

[The Buddha]

Good old fashioned  Aussie engineering....the A$ is down in the cellar.......overseas post at $33 for 500g.....give 'em a try....

http://www.precisionshims.com.au

They stock 29.5 mm dia shims in .05mm increments.

I submitted an order for - 2mm - 3 mm in .02 mm - which may be overkill. But its 50 sizes and I asked for 10 of each.
I dunno if its wise to exceed the 2.15-2.85 mm range Suzuki has ?? Atleast, I could drop those outsized ones and go to .05mm and maybe same me some $$$.

Cool.
Buddha.

[Yoda]

Finally got the head off. I went with a mallet + a block of wood + a little help from my brother-in-law. just need another pair of hands to hold the cylinder down while I smacked it.

The valves in my old head look very burnt so I wont be scavenging any of those for the new head.

I'm trying to decide if I want to replace the valve seals and re-seat them or if I just want to leave them alone. I filled the new head with WD-40 to see if it holds or leaks out.

Before I put it all back together I think I'm gonna replace my Piston rings and re-hone the cylinders. Anything else I should do while it's opened up?

[The Buddha]

Here is the reply from the Australian site posted by noworries -

I have these shims, looks like there is 21 thicknesses x 10 each so that's 210 shims, that's a lot of shims.

For this many I'll do a good price for you at $6.50 each plus postage as below.


So - 
AU $6.50 - X 210 - maybe I was over eager to ask for 10 each in .02 mm increments. Over AUD 1400 - what's that is real $$$ Someone

Factory sizes are .05mm apart and 2.15 to 2.85.

Anyway, It looks like there is an option. We now just bite the bullet and do a group buy ...

Cool.
Buddha.

[The Buddha]

I've been thinking - 210 shims are a drop in the bucket compared to our yearly need for shims as a group.
However I don't have $1400 lying around.

I'd be in for 2-3 of all sizes 250-280 ... about 30-35 shims.
Maybe the vast majority of shims in our bikes are 250-280 (assumption - cos every gs I ever opened up had nothing 250-280) ...

Maybe I should collect up a list ...

Anyway Australian $$$ is running 75c to USD, shipping is $33 ...

I'll open up a thread but I'll take orders ... look in your bikes and order 1-2 sizes out from the thinnest and thickest ... 1-2 each ...

So then I'll round and total ...

Now would an aussie take the lead on this make sure their shims wont break etc and work with them and have it made right

Cool.
Buddha,

[The Buddha]

They added this -

Yes the Chinese shims are just rubbish from the start, ie wrong material , not even close, wrong hardness not even close, but they are cheap.

The more people can know that Chinese ones are just rubbish the better, on the other hand some people just don't learn. !

I'll stand by for your order.

Thanks.
Srinath.

[noworries]

More nice GS500 bits from an Oz supplier......dollar's down and some of this kit could get the GS's mass down...

http://www.probolt-australia.com/vaf/product/list/?Manufacturer=83&Model=1571&Type=8&Year=1574&category=%3F&p=1&x=25&y=12