Front end swap???,

[Knuttzz]

So I've come to the conclusion I'm gonna do a front end swap on my GS.

I want to go with a USD front end. I want the full adjustability and to put it bluntly an USD unit just looks cool.

So I'm wondering which front end would be the easiest to do? I know I'll have to do some work and maybe some fab or machine work for the steering stem but which one is the easiest to make work?

[The Buddha]

Couple things to consider, and make a road trip over here.
USD FE's are cool, but gross over kill.
They don't give you a good way to mount headlights, gauges etc etc.

Kat600 89-95 is also overkill, but only slightly so, and with some nifty mods/hacks and strategic modding of parts let you run stock GS gauges and headlights and T/S. Really makes it look factory. Which IMHO, has to be so for a good FE swap.

Cool.
Buddha.

[RichDesmond]

Keep in mind that a sport bike front end is likely to have a different triple clamp offset and be a different length. Both of those can have significant impacts on handling and stability. It helps to understand all the impacts rather than just blindly swapping parts.

[dgyver]

I had a 99 GSXR750 on mine for a while before I moved it to my SV. Not too tough to install. Turned the GSXR stem down to fit the GS. Used larger diameter fork clamps for the headlight mount, from Aztex I believe. Steering stops may need to be modified and steering lock may not work due to alignment of the ignition switch. You will need a front brake master cylinder to handle the brakes on the donor f/e. The stock GS cannot handle it. I may still have the drawing of the stem modification. I have sold my modified stem. Also, I should still have the fork clamps, I believe they are 50mm but would need to confirm.

[The Buddha]

Kat FE leaves the same geometry as stock. Its offsets are almost identical to a stock.
The GSXR gets it more aggressive it has a good bit less offset in the forks. However they all handle awesomely well, in fact you switch to a kat fe bike, you'd wonder how you managed with the ponderously slow and wobbly stock.

GSXR FE will let you do stoppies ... I rode with werase643 and @ every stop sign he was stoppie-ing it ... the show off. Kat FE, much harder IMHO, still possible if you put the right tar on it.

Cool.
Buddha.

[Knuttzz]

Thanks for the replies guys...

Yeah I kinda figured the offset would change thus affecting the handling. I'm looking to firm up the front and give it better braking plus the USD look is what I'm going after. Like I mentioned in an earlier post , the little GS is more a play thing for me to cut up and modify so experimenting and having to fab or machine parts is no big deal.

I'm gonna make a road trip of to Charlotte sooner later Buddha, when I do I'll shoot you a PM.

[The Buddha]

The offset etc etc is no big deal. But IMHO for the bike to look right, kat 600 89-95 is it. Its not upside down, but all the rest look and work right with that FE.

Cool.
Buddha.

[RichDesmond]

...The GSXR gets it more aggressive it has a good bit less offset in the forks....

It's the other way around, more offset = less trail, which is the more aggressive direction.

Does anyone know what the triple offset is on the GS500?

[The Buddha]

GSXR triple has the steering neck to the center of the fork legs distance less than katana and GS. Thought that was offset.

However it makes very little difference in the handling - till you hit the brakes hard, or go through turns hard enough to flex the FE. Where GSXR FE flexes less than kat6 which is less than GS.

Its been done by lots of people. Old GSXR, new GSXR, old Kat, new kat ... all of it is an improvement - without question.

Cool.
Buddha.

[RichDesmond]

GSXR triple has the steering neck to the center of the fork legs distance less than katana and GS. Thought that was offset.

However it makes very little difference in the handling - till you hit the brakes hard, or go through turns hard enough to flex the FE. Where GSXR FE flexes less than kat6 which is less than GS.

Its been done by lots of people. Old GSXR, new GSXR, old Kat, new kat ... all of it is an improvement - without question.

Cool.
Buddha.

That is offset. Less offset = more trail. Sketch out a side view on a piece of graph paper, you'll see.

I haven't seen or ridden a GS500 with a swap, but in the SV650 world a GSXR fork swap often makes the bike handle worse. Hence my concern here. I know the numbers on the various GSXR forks, but don't have the GS500 numbers.

[The Buddha]

There is hordes of people with SV's and GSXR forks. I have a 1000 I have been contemplating it on.
Where do you see it as handling worse ? And is it worse than the GSXR it came from ?
Worse as in - twitchy, - steers so quick you cant control it ? That's' weird, cos the SV1000 triple has nearly the same offset as the GSXR triple.

Also one time when I did a dirt bike fork on a savage, it handled horrible with the fork fitted with the axle leading as it is on the kx500 I pulled the forks from. I flipped it and - far far better. It was better than a stock savage - that with a 12 degree angle in the triples and a extra foot length of fork not to mention a 21" wheel.

These numbers I actually dont know or really try to engineer or calculate. I would run it and feel it out. We've done 100's if not 1000's of GS'es with GSXR and Kat6. As swaps they work out very very well on a GS.

Cool.
Buddha.

[RichDesmond]

There is hordes of people with SV's and GSXR forks. I have a 1000 I have been contemplating it on.
Where do you see it as handling worse ? And is it worse than the GSXR it came from ?
Worse as in - twitchy, - steers so quick you cant control it ? That's' weird, cos the SV1000 triple has nearly the same offset as the GSXR triple.

Also one time when I did a dirt bike fork on a savage, it handled horrible with the fork fitted with the axle leading as it is on the kx500 I pulled the forks from. I flipped it and - far far better. It was better than a stock savage - that with a 12 degree angle in the triples and a extra foot length of fork not to mention a 21" wheel.

These numbers I actually dont know or really try to engineer or calculate. I would run it and feel it out. We've done 100's if not 1000's of GS'es with GSXR and Kat6. As swaps they work out very very well on a GS.

Cool.
Buddha.

Compared to the SV650 (the SV1000 is a different story) the GSXR forks are shorter and have more offset. Both of those reduce trail. That reduces stability somewhat, but the real downside is that it robs the front end of feel. You just can't tell what's going on at the front contact patch. For racing this is a big deal. GSXR front ends on SVs tend to feel numb, and when you can't feel the front end you don't have any confidence in it, and without that confidence you can't go fast. If you know what your doing you get some of that feel back, and it really helps to start with the right GSXR donor model. (They are not all the same, geometry-wise)
The stock SV650 fork can be made to work very, very well. The GS500 fork is not as good, so there's more room for improvement. I'm not saying that the GSXR fork swaps are necessarily a bad idea, just that I'd want to know what the geometry changes were going to be so I can be prepared to adjust the rest of the setup if needed.

[The Buddha]

The SV1000, then the 650 then the GS all put the power to the pavement in more discrete bursts than a GSXR. Possibly making what works on a GSXR not work on a SV.
Cool.
Buddha.

[RichDesmond]

The SV1000, then the 650 then the GS all put the power to the pavement in more discrete bursts than a GSXR. Possibly making what works on a GSXR not work on a SV.
Cool.
Buddha.

The twin vs. four power pulse difference doesn't have any real effect. What does matter a little is that I-4s tend to have a bit more of a front end weight bias than V-twins. But that really doesn't affect the geometry changes that a front end swap might entail.

[The Buddha]

A tank slapper seems to follow engine pulses, and of course that is if you keep a cool head and remember to stay on the throttle instead of shut it ...
Anyway the GSXR FE swap onto an sv makes it twitchy and prone to that right ?
Cool.
Srinath.

[RichDesmond]

A tank slapper seems to follow engine pulses, and of course that is if you keep a cool head and remember to stay on the throttle instead of shut it ...
Anyway the GSXR FE swap onto an sv makes it twitchy and prone to that right ?
Cool.
Srinath.

a tank slapper, even a very rapid one, is a lot lower frequency than engine power pulses.

A GSXR front end on an SV can make it twitchy and slapper prone, or it might not. It depends on a lot of factors. If you still have the stock shock on it, probably not. If you have an aftermarket shock with the proper (longer) length dialed in, then it might, depending on your total setup and which GSXR front end it is.
Most of the time they're not twitchy, just very numb feeling, sometimes with a tendency to tuck the front end.

[The Buddha]

That is ... well ... so SV. One of those oh yea, they screwed us ... again.

The Naked SV and the 1/4 fairing SV both had slightly different off set's in the triples, and the guage cluster mounts into it. So you cant simply take a top triple from a naked and slap that on.

Lots of other crap ... alternator rotor's that come apart, the crank drive gear nut that comes loose, ignition lock cyl wire to wiring harness that disconnects itself ... it makes a GS feel well built.

Cool.
Buddha.

[RichDesmond]

That is ... well ... so SV. One of those oh yea, they screwed us ... again.

The Naked SV and the 1/4 fairing SV both had slightly different off set's in the triples, and the guage cluster mounts into it. So you cant simply take a top triple from a naked and slap that on.

Lots of other crap ... alternator rotor's that come apart, the crank drive gear nut that comes loose, ignition lock cyl wire to wiring harness that disconnects itself ... it makes a GS feel well built.

Cool.
Buddha.

Only the second gen had different triple offsets between naked and S models. First gen was the same. Not sure why that's a big deal though?
As for the rest of your list, those are all very rare failures. I've had four SV's, raced them for 12 years, built and maintained a bunch of other SV race and street bikes, and have never personally seen any of them.