First gear clutch

[Kevin142001]

Is the bike supposed to roll as effortlessly in firstgear clutch as neutral? Are you supposed to while sitting the bike not warmed up be able to shift gears up and down with The engine off? Why do you bump start a bike in second and not first?

[Watcher]

Is the bike supposed to roll as effortlessly in firstgear clutch as neutral?

I'm guessing you mean in first gear with the clutch pulled in.  In this case, yes.  You might feel some resistance at first when you overcome the friction of the clutch plates in the transmission, but once it's rolling it should be rather easy to push around.
I always park in gear, and when moving the motorcycle in the garage I typically just clutch in and push rather than awkwardly shift it into N while standing off to the side...

Are you supposed to while sitting the bike not warmed up be able to shift gears up and down with The engine off?

Yes.  The transmission will shift regardless if the engine or rear wheel is turning.  You may experience a case where the transmission will NOT shift with the engine off and the motorcycle not moving.  This is merely a case where the gears that are trying to mesh are bumping teeth to teeth.  A slight rock forward or backward will turn one of the gears and allow them to mesh.

Why do you bump start a bike in second and not first?

It's all leverage.

In first gear it's easy for the engine to push the motorcycle because it's designed for the engine to spin quickly while turning the wheel slowly.
In sixth gear it's hard for the engine to push the motorcycle because it's designed for the engine to spin slowly while turning the wheel quickly.

When you are trying to push start the motorcycle these concepts are reversed, because rather than use the engine to turn the wheel you're using the wheel to turn the engine.

In sixth gear it's easy for the wheel to turn the engine because it's designed for the wheel to spin quickly while turning the engine slowly.
In first gear it's hard for the wheel to turn the engine because it's designed for the wheel to spin slowly while turning the engine quickly.

So when push starting, the higher your gear the more leverage you have to turn the engine.  But being in too high of a gear won't allow the engine to turn fast enough to start.
A good gear to offer easier leverage on the engine, while not insisting on a low RPM, is 2nd.

You CAN push start a bike in 1st, but you usually need to get it rolling at a higher speed than in 2nd.  It seems counter to what I just explained, but you need more momentum to start in 1st, otherwise the resistance from the engine is often enough to just bring the whole motorcycle to a stop.

[Kevin142001]

That makes sense and yeah i meant a bike sitting and off now shifting without moving it. That also makes sense with the teeth. Theres definitely resistance. In first with clutch pulled in much easier to run it in neutral then shift into second. Clutch pulled in the bike moves but its much more exhausting. Looks like i need to adjust my clutch.

Last question, has anyone found a legitimate use for the park mode other than frying batteries? (don't say for being parked on the side of the road at night so your visible) i am fsr more likely to fry my battery than to ever need to be visible on the side of the road at night so, perhaps I'll try to find a way to gut that part of the ignition or install a battery kill switch. A disconnect switch.

[Watcher]

Oh I see what you're getting at.

Yeah, running it in N, hopping on, then UPshifting and dropping the clutch definitely seems like the way to push start with the least amount of "work".


As far as not wanting Park mode...  Just don't put it in Park?

I never understood it either.  When I park along curbs I back in wheel to the curb so approaching traffic sees the profile of my motorcycle and catches all the light reflectors.
That works well enough for me.

Also, currently my Buell turns the HEADLIGHT and gauges on as well in P mode.  I think it's more of a "show" mode than a "park" mode.

[sledge]

In some european countries, mine included its a legal requirement to display parking lights when parked up kerbside at night on certain classes of road so the facilty has to be provided.

[Kevin142001]

I have to make a conscious effort not to put it in park mode, my ignition is a little worn, sometimes i have to play with the keys to get it to turn a certain way, and it turns so effortlessly from steering lock to park mode that  when i just put it in steering lock its in park mode. The click or bump you should feel when turning it between the two isn't very distinct.

Ill stop complaining, just making myself look like a dummy I had a friend tell me that first gear with clutch held in should feel as effortless as moving the bike in neutral. The two are definitely not the same, he suggest i have a clutch problem, but i feel that there is nothign wrong with my clutch. When im holding it in, the bike does not try to move forward for a second, theres not even the slightest tug, so as far as im concerned theres nothing wrong with my clutch or the cable.

So i was a bit curious as to is he right? Maybe on some bikes walking the bike in first with clutch held in is as effortless as neutral? Maybe mines supposed to be like that? I couldnt push start it, i only tried about 4 times, its pretty exhausting and im by no means out of shape, i work out. I ran the bike in neutral as fast as i could get it, upshifted and popped the clutch. The engine turned maybe 4 times (no ignition just the sound of it rotating) and the headlight came on. But that was the best i got. It was also cold, but this is florida so 50 degrees isnt really cold for most people. Attempt it with the choke on, and honestly it turned better with no choke, but that could be in my head. I could have tried more, but from hearing about other people doing it, it definitely should have push started. Probably would if it had less miles on it, or was in better shape.

The battery wasnt like too weak to start the bike, it was stone cold dead, you couldnt get a small motherboard LED to turn on with it. It sat for 7 hours in park mode. I dont know if that plays into anything with a push start. I know the stator basically runs the bike and charges the battery, when your operational, but i didnt know if having a little bit of juice in the bat helped with a push start. I know its all one circuit, but does the juice in the battery only flow into the plugs while the inigition start button is pressed or can it flow into the plugs while running if say the stator all of a sudden put out 0 amps for a minute?

Anyways thats my lame story, thanks for putting up with my questions. This is my first bike, always learning what i can.

[Watcher]

If the battery is flat dead you likely have a no start condition.  Spark is supplied via battery, and stator charges battery.  Stator won't supply spark directly and the amount of juice needed to charge the battery to supply sufficient spark won't be achieved in 4 cranks...

Push starting is more or less for a bad starter or a weak battery.  If your headlight won't even come on, she probably won't start from a push.

Get her on a charger or jump start it.  Word of caution, jumping off a car is ONLY done with the car off.  Alternators supply too much current and can cause issues with your bike's electrics, but jumping off the battery is fine.


1st gear won't be as effortless as in N.  There's is still some friction going on in the clutch since half of the plates are connected to an engine that isn't turning and half are connected to a transmission that IS.  Squeezing the clutch lever holds these apart but they are sticky and still rub together.
In N the whole clutch is disconnected from the transmission and thus isn't turning at all and offers zero resistance.


It's never a bad idea to do a 3-point clutch adjustment, especially if you feel like the clutch isn't completely disengaging.  It takes only a few minutes.

[Kevin142001]

Ok so a push start is really for the battery that cant get the starter motor turning but has enough juice to spark the plugs. Thanks for the pointers and the reply. I think my clutch is fine then. Its not like when i hold it in the bike tries to walk itself in first gear. It doesn't move at all when held in unless i walk it. Ill look over that though something good to know.