Blank Slate GS500 ( if Suzuki were listening)

[mr72]

I suspect someone was asleep at the wheel when they pulled the plug on the GS in 09, after all they had enough left over to keep them selling till 2012 right ?

I think they just considered the cost of updating the engine to meet smog standards and found it would be too expensive to be worth it.

Anyway they should sort of revert to the stuff they used to already make for the most part.

I totally agree. I think they should bring back the GS500 engine as-is and just fit it with the EFI from the SV650. A little bit of programming and a manifold design is all it needs. They would have to work out where to put a catalytic converter and ignition timing control. Not much engineering. For that matter like you say they could bring back the same frame they always used and recycle fork/brakes/shock from SV. Viola. GS500 comes back.

Since it's an "old" design they should do like Ducati did and make it look somewhat retro. Naked, round headlight, very compact gauges, no side plastics, maybe even make the tank a little more rounded/classic style and add some retro Suzuki graphics. IMHO. Target the Ducati Scrambler buyer.

I personally think the Honda and kawi look rather tacky plasticky.

Agreed 100%. There is no room in the market for another 300-500cc liquid cooled plastic-clad commuter. Suzuki needs to make something out of the GS500 parts bin to compete with the Ducati Scrambler [/Sixty2], eventually the Yamaha XSR700, etc.

Or for that matter if they could put the GS500 motor into a TU250X that might make a decent GS500 replacement or a good option to compete for the Triumph/MotoGuzzi buyer.

[J_Walker]

I suspect someone was asleep at the wheel when they pulled the plug on the GS in 09, after all they had enough left over to keep them selling till 2012 right ?

I think they just considered the cost of updating the engine to meet smog standards and found it would be too expensive to be worth it.

Anyway they should sort of revert to the stuff they used to already make for the most part.

I totally agree. I think they should bring back the GS500 engine as-is and just fit it with the EFI from the SV650. A little bit of programming and a manifold design is all it needs. They would have to work out where to put a catalytic converter and ignition timing control. Not much engineering. For that matter like you say they could bring back the same frame they always used and recycle fork/brakes/shock from SV. Viola. GS500 comes back.

Since it's an "old" design they should do like Ducati did and make it look somewhat retro. Naked, round headlight, very compact gauges, no side plastics, maybe even make the tank a little more rounded/classic style and add some retro Suzuki graphics. IMHO. Target the Ducati Scrambler buyer. Steal the Ducati scrambler buyer. Fixed. 

I personally think the Honda and kawi look rather tacky plasticky.

Agreed 100%. There is no room in the market for another 300-500cc liquid cooled plastic-clad commuter. Suzuki needs to make something out of the GS500 parts bin to compete with the Ducati Scrambler [/Sixty2], eventually the Yamaha XSR700, etc.

Or for that matter if they could put the GS500 motor into a TU250X that might make a decent GS500 replacement or a good option to compete for the Triumph/MotoGuzzi buyer.

If we get another GS500. I want to see at least 75HP RWHP, and 65 FT/LB of torque, of course the GS500* probably wouldn't be "500" any more. unless we got a 3rd or 4th cylinder.. I'd be cool with an i3 GS500. GS500 i3 Edition.

[myersg11]

I'll wind up sounding like a bike snob - but who cares 

Suzuki needs to focus on what made the bike great to begin with...
- relatively indestructible (10k is the normal shifting point, right?)
- utilitarian (bungee straps + grab bars = no need for a pickup truck).
- slightly anemic (translation: I don't die in rain storms)
- air cooled, no ABS, no traction control, no LMNOP..., no nothing... (KISS method)
- conservative geometry (i.e. predictable behavior for unpredictable situations)
- good fuel economy
- better than average ergonomics
- a good fairing that makes the bike feel bigger than it is.
Improvements
- Fuel/Fool injection (but not a ton of extra power)
- adjustable rear shock
- better charging system

I have ridden for 17 years now, 7 years of which have been year-round.  Ice on the road is my deal-breaker.  I "stepped down" to 2007 GS500F after buying into the bigger is better BS with my first new bike.  Multiple, multiple 300+ mile days with tank-to-tank runs.  Have 60k and climbing on three GS's (2F + 1E) and I am desperately searching for an alternative until Suzuki wakes up.   Have an SV650S, about to sell a Bandit 1250 and about to buy a V-Strom 1000.  To this day, I still get more compliments on my GSs and nobody believes they are 500's.  Sadly, the V-Strom is the first bike I have ridden that gives me "more" of what I love about riding that my GSs.

... but then again, nobody from Suzuki asked me.

[gregjet]

Watcher. Apologies I wrote the metric weight.   That's not lbs it's kg. It's reasonably light .
The 07 is not a sports nor a street fighter ( though you could make it one). The bike is cammed for mid range. The power drops off at the top like the Gs500. It 's definitely a commuter/ torque bike. It is very similar to the GS500 around town just feels lighter , a bit more nimble and a bit more power. Same rubbish suspension as stock as the Suzuki. The 07 suffers from a rear weight bias so the Suzuki actually feels a bit more planted.

You could buy the CBR500, if that was what you were in the market for, but that doesn't make you sales if you are Suzuki. As pointed out , they have dropped the ball.

ABS. It will have to have ABS if they want to sell it in Europe. Requirement.

Aircooling. That also will have to go as aircooled motors struggle to meet emissions , particularly nitrogen oxides. With the new stds to get any power it will have to be water cooled/high comp to get any power out of the 500cc lean fuel mix.

myersg11: you seem to have hit a few nails on the head with the good points of the bike. See the ABS and air cooled comments above though. I think that's what most of us like about the bike. Simple, capable, utilitarian. Better fuel economy would help as well. That is usually a by product of current EFI , especially when reflashed to decent specs.  Most motors that convert to EFI end up with more mid/low torque, rather than more power, as it is more accurate mix where carbs struggle. The SV650 is a good example. You might has a look at the new tracer700 when it turns up. Most of the problems on the 07 are fixed on it , but it weighs more unfortunately.

If the motor gets watercooling and a new design, it would probably be lower so  a cat could easily fit underneath. Of course as Akra pointed out, a motorcycle does not need a cat the size of a small planet to work efficiently. According to him you can achieve proper cat conversion on a motorcycle engine with a cat not much bigger than a fist. And with less restriction.

The Al frame of the SV650 is the sort of thing I had in mind as well, but updated and lightened. It's not a bad frame design at all.

Gauges would depend on the style of the model. I am a fan of electronic gauges ( my GS has an Acewell), but a "cafe racer" style gould have retro gauges. Or a base commuter a simple speedo only ( with included indicator lights).

[J_Walker]

Gauges would depend on the style of the model. I am a fan of electronic gauges ( my GS has an Acewell), but a "cafe racer" style gould have retro gauges. Or a base commuter a simple speedo only ( with included indicator lights).

all I want on my gauges is a clock to know what time it is... the wrist watch strapped to the handlebars gets old. lol

and are the SUPER TÉNÉRÉ ES and "Tracer" you mentioned the same bike? URGH WHY NAME CHANGES ACROSS THE POND!? FOR THE SAME THINGS!


hmmmm, looked at yamaha's sport tourers [never thought too tbh never heard much about them..] butttt this FJR1300A.. is shaft drive?! hmmmm this really threw a wrench into my Suzuki VS Aprilia decisions.. maybe its neither and its yamaha... never thought of owning a yamaha ever tho.

[mr72]

ABS. It will have to have ABS if they want to sell it in Europe. Requirement.

And rightly it should be, it's an excellent safety feature for motorcycles. No brainer. I can't figure why it's not standard on all new bikes.

Aircooling. That also will have to go as aircooled motors struggle to meet emissions , particularly nitrogen oxides. With the new stds to get any power it will have to be water cooled/high comp to get any power out of the 500cc lean fuel mix.

I disagree completely here. I don't disagree that it's difficult to meet emissions standards with an air cooled engine, but disagree that it's an acceptable change to make for an updated GS500. Ducati can pull off air cooled for the 400/800 Scramblers, certainly Suzuki can make it happen. Air cooled is part of the appeal, part of the simplicity and halps keep the weight down.

[gregjet]

Super tenere and Tracer aren't the same bike. The Tenner is going to have a proper offroad chassis as far as I know, and the motor will be cammed differently at the very least.
Watercooling for the following reasons to meet noise and emmision regs. ( plus you can get better HP with little major changes).
Water cooling is MUCH quieter. The euro noise stds are getting tougher and tougher.
Water cooling allows better control of emmisions.
Water cooling allows a much narrower motor.
Water cooling allows higher compression ratios.
Water cooling allows better burn control of lower grade fuels.
Watercooling allows longer life of lubricating oil.
Water cooling allows the oil temp to remain better controled for the gearbox and clutch wear and action.
Other than that no need for water cooling. It is well proven and reliable on modern bikes.

[Random00]

Anything above 50HP would steal sales from the SV650 naked/V-Strom 650, especially in markets that have tiered licensing, so Suzuki won't do it.   

I'd like to see them update the GS with fuel injection and modern metallurgy/modern tech (abs) and make it a 2 sizes 300/500 like Honda.  They could then use that "updated" engine in a GS, a Rebel style small cruiser, and a "adventure" style baby wee-strom.  They could even try to match the RC390 with a sporty 'F' variant.

But it's all dreams.  Suzuki is still in "cost savings mode" since the 2008 collapse.  Hell, they let the GSXR flagships go 6+ years without major changes, they sure aren't going to throw cubic dollars at a the GS.  Not unless they can spread the cost over multiple models that will sell around the world with minimal changes, and small displacement bikes outsell "big" bikes in most of the world.  That also means we probably won't get a lightweight frame or cornering ABS, as the emerging markets won't support the price points they require.

[gregjet]

One thing most forget is that much of Suzuki was in the tsunami zone. They are struggling ( or at least that is what I was told), and only just getting it back together.

Random : some nice ideas in there and good points, especially about the competition with the SV, but a lot of the world has a 500cc limit still. No competition there.  Again same capacity applies to both difference in registrations and beginner sizing ( eg. Australian capacity/power to weight restrictions) . A unmodded 500 would be better than a choked 650, as there seems to a a buyer resistance to a LAMS bike that is chocked, as opposed to a single open model ( eg the SV650 LAMS and the GS500. easier to sell the 500 than the underpowered 650). Particularly in the second hand market. Emulating the Honda (true) , Kwaka and Yammaha mid capacity model approach would seem to make sense
Suzuki has just released a brand new GSXR , I believe. This market could shift a bit if the mooted changes come to Superbike etc racing at the global level.

[The Buddha]

They could put that savage 650 motor in a standard and a sportier standard - but likely will get bitted by epa there too cos it is a new model.
I cant understand how they can keep making the same S40 from 1986 basically and not have epa issues but not the GS of 89. Yea its an older motor, but the savage isn't any better either, even older tech. Rocker arms and what not.

A GS motor with the water cooling and EFI updates could replace the S40 in the cruiser and the endure style could replace the DR650. That's also a limp and dying arm of Suzuki.

Merge all those into 1 motor with 3-4 body styles. S40, DR6, GS-S (naked) and GS-R (fairing). All with belt drive and all with 15" rear wheels. I'd buy 1 of each.

Cool.
Buddha.

[J_Walker]

They could put that savage 650 motor in a standard and a sportier standard - but likely will get bitted by epa there too cos it is a new model.
I cant understand how they can keep making the same S40 from 1986 basically and not have epa issues but not the GS of 89. Yea its an older motor, but the savage isn't any better either, even older tech. Rocker arms and what not.

A GS motor with the water cooling and EFI updates could replace the S40 in the cruiser and the endure style could replace the DR650. That's also a limp and dying arm of Suzuki.

Merge all those into 1 motor with 3-4 body styles. S40, DR6, GS-S (naked) and GS-R (fairing). All with belt drive and all with 15" rear wheels. I'd buy 1 of each.

Cool.
Buddha.

15 inch wheels, yuck. no way on the dual sports...

[gregjet]

Interesting approach Buddah. Why 15" wheels? I am curious.

[The Buddha]

Interesting approach Buddah. Why 15" wheels? I am curious.

Inexpensive tars that will run 15k, like those cheng shin's I have on my savage.
The street and sport versions could have mag's, the cruiser with steel laced and dual sport with aluminum laced. They used to do it in the 80's. Now what's the problem.
Besides the DR 650, the RM450, savage etc etc will be under 1 umbrella.
Using the same drivetrain/wheel combo = they can control power and what not with just electronic mappings.
They wont have to gear these differently like the rebel/nighthawk 250 set which Honda got horribly wrong on the rebel.
Cool.
Buddha.

[RichDesmond]

There is a modern GS500, it's called the SV650.

[sledge]

There is an even more modern take.......the SFV650 Gladius.

It features and includes a lot of the things that, according to some posters in this thread Suzuki should have included in a revised version of the GS5.

FI
ABS
Digital instruments
Adjustable front and rear suspension
Twin discs








Unfortunately........hardly anyone bought one!!

[gregjet]

Actually the SV650 ( and all it iterations) is ALSO a very dated design. Like the GS they designed a bike somewhat ahead of it's time and stuck with it. But it also is suffering form "lardarsededness". Yes a vtwin is a better motorcycle config in my opinion. Especially in smaller and lower power motors, because it pushes less air ( smaller frontal area), especially in watercooled. Would be happy with a lighter weight Vtwin 350-500cc GS300/500 commuter oriented, rather than the large heavy SV more performance design. I am not sure, but I think the motor may be the base for the SV1000 as well ( hopefully someone will know the answer to that). That means it MUST be much bigger than it needs to be.
The trouble is a vtwin is a lot more complicated to design and build. I raced a VTR250 and it is insanely complicated for a twin ( it is however one of the best 250's ever made and totally under-rated) , especially to work on.
The 270 and 90 deg crank parallel twins are still narrow enough ( ie narrower than the rider so don't add to the functional width) and have similar motor characteristics to a v twin without the extra complexity ( and weight). They don't look as good as a vtwin though. They are also shorter and easier to get a good motorcycle fore/aft balance position. The vtwin design does allow you more space above and/orbelow  the motor

[Watcher]

There is an even more modern take.......the SFV650 Gladius.

Unfortunately........hardly anyone bought one!!

Unfortunately, Suzuki made it look like something out of Farscape.

If the Gladius never existed and they instead just went with the modern SV650 it would have done much better for them.

[The Buddha]

Actually the SV650 ( and all it iterations) is ALSO a very dated design. Like the GS they designed a bike somewhat ahead of it's time and stuck with it. But it also is suffering form "lardarsededness". Yes a vtwin is a better motorcycle config in my opinion. Especially in smaller and lower power motors, because it pushes less air ( smaller frontal area), especially in watercooled. Would be happy with a lighter weight Vtwin 350-500cc GS300/500 commuter oriented, rather than the large heavy SV more performance design. I am not sure, but I think the motor may be the base for the SV1000 as well ( hopefully someone will know the answer to that). That means it MUST be much bigger than it needs to be.
The trouble is a vtwin is a lot more complicated to design and build. I raced a VTR250 and it is insanely complicated for a twin ( it is however one of the best 250's ever made and totally under-rated) , especially to work on.
The 270 and 90 deg crank parallel twins are still narrow enough ( ie narrower than the rider so don't add to the functional width) and have similar motor characteristics to a v twin without the extra complexity ( and weight). They don't look as good as a vtwin though. They are also shorter and easier to get a good motorcycle fore/aft balance position. The vtwin design does allow you more space above and/orbelow  the motor

Noooooooo a V twin is crap. How does the ninja 650 manage to be skinnier than the sv and its shorter wheel base to boot.
I own an SV1000 I am partial in this game. Love the SV1K, but the Ninja 650 parallel twin kicks the Gheydius's butt.
VTR250's front brake set up was bad enough to make my head hurt looking at it.
Cool.
Buddha.

[J_Walker]

There is an even more modern take.......the SFV650 Gladius.

It features and includes a lot of the things that, according to some posters in this thread Suzuki should have included in a revised version of the GS5.

FI
ABS
Digital instruments
Adjustable front and rear suspension
Twin discs








Unfortunately........hardly anyone bought one!!

I didn't buy one, because NO DAMN CLOCK IN THE DASH!  how else am I suppose to know when to go faster because I'm running late like a mofo. 

really, big pet peve, not having a digital clock in your fancy digital dash. really jerks my chains.

oh and that ugly freakin "the flash" tier peg supports.. or idfk what to call them. that the rear and front pegs are attached too.. whats worse is Suzuki wanted to show it off. as its painted a different color from everything else. stylizing.. Glad was a fail. big one, like, some kid out of highschool graphics design class could of done better...

[Suzuki Stevo]

I'm just going to leave this here....