Am I spending too much???

[The Buddha]

Or like I say of my $1000 Mitsubishi diamante that I spent 4k on - I'll drive it for 250K more (it has rebuilt engine and design problem fixed transmission) and sell it for $1000 in 25 yrs.
Cool.
Buddha.

[J_Walker]

Did I answer the questions. check.
Did I do anything else besides call the GS500 a turd? nope.

how many confirmed people have over 100,000k miles on a GS500? like 5?, out of how many sold worldwide? Okay, knowing that information now, look at the common issues on the GS500's platform, I'd hardly call it "bullet proof" platform. Good luck finding a GS500 over 30k miles without some sort of electrical issue... R/Rs going out, the coils just dying without warning, the signal generator, the starter relay, the generator itself, not even just the coil failing but the whole damn thing exploding into pieces because of failed epoxy?

And that's just electrical issues.. mechanical includes, later model GS500s have needles in the tach and speedo that just brake into pieces. the speedo sensor/piece that connects to the front wheel there's a little plastic piece in there that always is broken.. I haven't pulled one off that wasn't. although broken they mostly still work.. but broken never the least. Valve shims needing constant attention. Crank case transmission halves leaking oil. Oil filter studs being crap tastic. most bolts in the bike being made of cheese... The starter clutch gear failing, The suspension on the bike doesn't last very long before getting soft and needing replacing or as most do upgrading. the wearing and failing of the carb diaphragms.. the crappy stock jetting in most bikes.

All these issues seem like a pretty easy deal to have fixed by 1999.... but suzuki just didn't want too. as they commonly do. so that's what make's these bikes turds.. kinda a big deal.. considering most of them keep the bike from starting and running...

I know, but I am wrong...

[Toner]

Do pick up some JIS screwdriver bits for all the screws. 
They look like Philips but Philips strip them. 
That's one thing I didn't know. 
Neither did the previous owner....

[gamdon24]

I simply pointed out what the GS was, and answered your question as to if you restoring it is gonna actually turn a profit, truthfully.

I didn't think you'd get hot buns over me calling the GS500 A TURD. Act like I kicked your dog or something...

I DID ask for opinions, and you certainly expressed one, albeit one that obviously met with some disapproval.    

That's Ok, everyone has their own opinion.  Some are EDUCATED by EXPERIENCE,  and some are just flippant observations.

I am aware there are pro's and con's to ALL vehicle brands.       

It is my intention to "engineer" out the known faults with this bike to the best of my abilities, I find the problem solving therapeutic. 

Call it what you want, I'm just enjoying having something to work on again. 

Maybe it won't ever turn a profit, but I'll certainly enjoy restoring and riding it as long as it will allow.

Perhaps once I've gotten my hands dirty on this bike long enough, I'll feel like I am ready to progress to restoring cars & trucks once again. 

It's a safe bet I'm going to benefit from learning how to overcome the obstacles this project will throw my way , that in itself is worth whatever amount my final tally manages to achieve.

Then maybe I'll just find some eager youngster interested in learning to ride and pass the GS on for them to enjoy or develop a distaste for, whichever the case may be.... 

J_Walker, "ALL OPINIONS MATTER"   

[mr72]

... look at the common issues on the GS500's platform, I'd hardly call it "bullet proof" platform. Good luck finding a GS500 over 30k miles without some sort of electrical issue... R/Rs going out, the coils just dying without warning, the signal generator, the starter relay, the generator itself, not even just the coil failing but the whole damn thing exploding into pieces because of failed epoxy?

AFAIK those issues are pretty common not only among Suzukis but also many other Japanese bikes.

Valve shims needing constant attention. Crank case transmission halves leaking oil. Oil filter studs being crap tastic. most bolts in the bike being made of cheese... The starter clutch gear failing, The suspension on the bike doesn't last very long before getting soft and needing replacing or as most do upgrading. the wearing and failing of the carb diaphragms.. the crappy stock jetting in most bikes.

Again a host of issues also common to numerous (maybe most) other motorcycles particularly of the era.

I'm not suggesting that these are not annoying issues just that they are not so unique among GS500s that it qualifies them as some kind of junk.

I would note that some of these issues are identical on KTM or BMWs which share the identical carburetors. The electrical parts are common (or nearly identical) to those on many other Japanese motorcycles of the era. This is par for the course. It's very difficult to find any all-original functional 90s motorcycle with 100K miles on it. Maybe impossible.

It's just that if you have a BMW or Triumph or Ducati, you are more than likely going to dump money into it rapidly when it wears. But with a "cheap" GS500, particularly one serviced and owned by "beginners", they get neglected and problems are left to mature from minor annoyances to debilitating. That is hardly a reflection of the quality of the motorcycle.

BTW one thing I'll point out you are dead wrong on: the GS500 suspension doesn't "get soft". It started that way. Springs don't wear like that. That's a pretty common myth. Certainly the dampers get worn or the fork oil needs changing. I call that maintenance. I think anyone reasonable would. My 2015 Jeep has about the same mileage as my GS500 and the shocks are shot. That's not because it's junk, it's because those parts wear.

All these issues seem like a pretty easy deal to have fixed by 1999.... but suzuki just didn't want too.

Why would they address things that didn't impact sales?

I make this same complaint about all of the horrific engineering and quality on my Jeep, but demand is high so they don't fix it.

[J_Walker]

I think my point was that these issues are happening at the around the 30k mark. I've seen bone stock civics molested to all get-out, with 250k miles on them.. Is kinda my point. What's it with motorcycle manufacturers and the crappy electronics? Now I haven't owned anything past 2005 so my experience is that. I have worked on stuff past 2005 however.

and don't get me wrong, I know the issue is across the board.. CBR F4is having the famous cam chain tensioner issues... [though the cam chain tensioner FAILED on my GS500.] SV650s and their R/R's and such.

I think the only thing suzuki did right on the gs500, was add that cool little oil drain plug on the right side of the bike, where the clutch plates live, to drain the bike down enough to take that side cover off, and check your clutch plates, or replace them, without having to drain everything...  Good job suzuki.

[sledge]

I have to agree with the above. In fact I agree with everything said so far. There is not and never was anything special or unique or noteworthy about the GS5, apart from its price..........and it shows.

My guess is that its low manufacturing costs are the main reason for its longevity.

[mr72]

I think my point was that these issues are happening at the around the 30k mark. I've seen bone stock civics molested to all get-out, with 250k miles on them.. Is kinda my point. What's it with motorcycle manufacturers and the crappy electronics? Now I haven't owned anything past 2005 so my experience is that. I have worked on stuff past 2005 however.

Well my dad has a 2006 Honda Shadow with less than 3K miles on it and it needed similar work to what my far older and higher-mileage GS500 needed in order to get it to work reliably. I anticipate fuel injected motorcycles are far more reliable at least while having low mileage (under 50K).

But this is apples and oranges. A Civic or any other car does not leave the engine and all electronics exposed to the elements the way a motorcycle does during use. Plus the big kicker is how highly stressed the engine is in a motorcycle compared with a car. A car engine that redlines at >7K rpm is a rarity and even among the owners of cars like this, it's very rare for drivers to actually rev them over 4-5K. Most MC riders who are not riding thumpers or Harleys will cruise at 5K and regularly rev over 9K rpms before shifting. Plus to go highway speeds on a typical motorcycle (we're not talking 100+hp sport bikes...) requires more than half or sometimes nearly all of the power the engine can make so routine cruising on the highway puts the engine in nearly maximum strain while a typical car is operating with 1/4 or less of its power and very low stress at highway speeds where it racks up the majority of its mileage. So you can't really compare them. If my Jeep's 22K miles had happened with it cruising on the highway with 3/4 throttle in the top gear at 5K rpm and if it was revved to 6500 rpm between each gear shift every single time and I ran it with the hood and fenders off then my guess is it would similarly need a valve job and have a ton of stuff falling apart. Likewise if my GS500 ran its 22K miles never being revved over 6K rpm, never cruising on the highway with more than 1/4 throttle or at more than 3K rpm and not exceeding 35mph then my guess it would be in nearly mint mechanical condition regardless of age and mileage.

Now, one important point is about the electronics and that's due to the design of the charging system. The regulator/rectifier is a gigantic weak spot in this whole thing and if it fails then it can cause the rest of the system to be dramatically over-stressed and all hell breaks loose. This is a fundamental design flaw common to virtually all motorcycles but they seem to be sort of forced into it due to space and weight constraints. You can't put a car-style alternator on a motorcycle because of packaging. But again, this is not like it's a GS500 or even just a Suzuki problem. A $30K BMW is going to have the same issues. Only difference is the owner of the $30K BMW just outside of warranty who has a minor annoying little tiny electrical niggle show up which is an early indicator of R/R that will eventually fail is going to trailer that bike to the BMW dealer and spend more than the value of a decent GS500 to get this minor problem repaired preemptively. A GS500 owner is going to ride that bike until the $100 part goes all the way out and takes a couple more $20-100 parts with it and gets stranded, and then get all ticked off about how it costs $350 to get it fixed when they only paid $1100 for the bike. And then someone's going to tell us about how much higher quality the BMW is.

and don't get me wrong, I know the issue is across the board..

Then why call it out the way you did? Particularly on this forum? I mean, here you have a mixture including many beginners and new motorcycle owners and you come right out and bash a GS500 as if it is unique in poor quality or reliability among the rest when it's just simply not true. If your complaint is with the motorcycle industry (which I won't disagree with) then make that case but IMHO it's entirely unfair and misleading to single out the GS500 this way.

[cbrfxr67]

" most bolts in the bike being made of cheese...

too funny

[qcbaker]

This thread is a goddamn trainwreck.

All of you are getting too far into a discussion of the merits of the GS500, rather than addressing the original question: is the OP spending too much. Obviously, the answer to that question depends on a few factors: how much money they have invested, what the OP plans to do with the bike, and (if their intention is to sell the bike) the market value of the bike. The merits/flaws of the GS500 are entirely irrelevant.

The OP originally addresses the above factors thusly:

So far without listing EVERYTHING separately, I have invested over $2,200 in the restoration.

...

Once I have purchased all the parts I want/need for this restoration I will probably have invested closer to $3,500, NOT TO MENTION all the TIME I have spent ensuring everything is in working order and looks good.

My thought is this, I know this little bike isn't highly sought after, and my original plan was to restore it to a decent running and appearance then sell it for at least what I invested (Time & Money)

Ok if you've read this far let me know what you think...

KBB value on a 1992 GS500EN in "excellent" condition is ~$1100 from a dealer. The OP has already invested about double that amount and plans to invest more. Their original plan was to restore it and sell it for what they invested. Being that 1.) their intention was to sell the bike and at least break even and 2.) the market value for their bike is much less than their current investment, the answer is simple: Yes, the OP has spent too much on this bike.

However, later in this thread, the OP said this:

It is my intention to "engineer" out the known faults with this bike to the best of my abilities, I find the problem solving therapeutic.

Call it what you want, I'm just enjoying having something to work on again. 

Maybe it won't ever turn a profit, but I'll certainly enjoy restoring and riding it as long as it will allow.

Perhaps once I've gotten my hands dirty on this bike long enough, I'll feel like I am ready to progress to restoring cars & trucks once again. 

It's a safe bet I'm going to benefit from learning how to overcome the obstacles this project will throw my way , that in itself is worth whatever amount my final tally manages to achieve.

If the OP is restoring the bike as a hobby/leisure project and money is secondary to the "zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance" type of experience, then the answer is much more subjective. In that situation, if it makes the OP happy, they should spend as much as they feel comfortable. What I think about it is irrelevant at that point.

However, I feel I should point out that if this is how the OP feels, what was the point of making this thread? If you already know it's "worth it" regardless of money spent because of the therapeutic nature of restoration projects, then why even ask us?

Additionally, if you're just gonna dismiss opinions you disagree with, why even ask for opinions in the first place? I find it a little ridiculous that this was originally posed as a monetary question that the OP basically asked for opinions on, and when J_Walker gave his, it was dismissed because it wasn't the answer the OP wanted. If you're simply seeking validation, why even reply to comments you disagree with? And why even pose this as a question in the first place? Seems to me that you already had your "answer," and now you're just hoping everyone agrees with it. If that's the case, why not simply share your story as it is? Most people love a story about how working on your bike makes you feel at peace regardless of money. I know I can relate to that.

[mr72]

This thread is a goddamn trainwreck.

good points qcbaker

KBB value on a 1992 GS500EN in "excellent" condition is ~$1100 from a dealer. The OP has already invested about double that amount and plans to invest more. Their original plan was to restore it and sell it for what they invested. Being that 1.) their intention was to sell the bike and at least break even and 2.) the market value for their bike is much less than their current investment, the answer is simple: Yes, the OP has spent too much on this bike.

I would agree with this totally. OTOH, I think $1100 is not even close to the real world market value of a '92 GS500E in excellent condition. I don't know where KBB would get this number but in my area it would get at least double that. But in the case of the OP, yes likely you've overspent if you ever want to get anything close to your money back.

As to the side discussion of why the value is whatever it is, I guess that's off-topic.

However, later in this thread, the OP said this:

It is my intention to "engineer" out the known faults with this bike to the best of my abilities, I find the problem solving therapeutic.

Call it what you want, I'm just enjoying having something to work on again. 

Maybe it won't ever turn a profit, but I'll certainly enjoy restoring and riding it as long as it will allow.

Perhaps once I've gotten my hands dirty on this bike long enough, I'll feel like I am ready to progress to restoring cars & trucks once again. 

It's a safe bet I'm going to benefit from learning how to overcome the obstacles this project will throw my way , that in itself is worth whatever amount my final tally manages to achieve.

If the OP is restoring the bike as a hobby/leisure project and money is secondary to the "zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance" type of experience, then the answer is much more subjective. In that situation, if it makes the OP happy, they should spend as much as they feel comfortable. What I think about it is irrelevant at that point.

However, I feel I should point out that if this is how the OP feels, what was the point of making this thread? If you already know it's "worth it" regardless of money spent because of the therapeutic nature of restoration projects, then why even ask us?

Additionally, if you're just gonna dismiss opinions you disagree with, why even ask for opinions in the first place? I find it a little ridiculous that this was originally posed as a monetary question that the OP basically asked for opinions on, and when J_Walker gave his, it was dismissed because it wasn't the answer the OP wanted. If you're simply seeking validation, why even reply to comments you disagree with? And why even pose this as a question in the first place? Seems to me that you already had your "answer," and now you're just hoping everyone agrees with it. If that's the case, why not simply share your story as it is? Most people love a story about how working on your bike makes you feel at peace regardless of money. I know I can relate to that.
[/quote]

[The Buddha]

I can accept all the 30K and later problems. However with this bike, over 1/2 of them leave the factory using about 1/2 qt between oil changes.
And by 5k they are closer to 1qt and you don't pay attention to the oil level between changes and you'd seize the thing.
Bikes built in the mid 80's and earlier were not that way. They got sloppy.
Cool.
Buddha.

[qcbaker]

I would agree with this totally. OTOH, I think $1100 is not even close to the real world market value of a '92 GS500E in excellent condition. I don't know where KBB would get this number but in my area it would get at least double that. But in the case of the OP, yes likely you've overspent if you ever want to get anything close to your money back.

As to the side discussion of why the value is whatever it is, I guess that's off-topic.

Debating what the value of the bike is in a monetary sense wouldn't be off topic. If you're saying the monetary value of the bike is closer to $2200, then you can argue that spending around that amount (or even a bit more) can be considered worth it because of the learning experience of the restoration. That experience + close to breaking even = maybe worth it.

However I will say that, in my opinion, paying $2200 for a '92 GS500E is ridiculous, regardless of condition. Even if it were mint, why spend that much on a 25 year old bike that isn't really "collectible" in any meaningful way? Maybe if it had intact factory TCP fairings or something... Pretty much any early 90's japanese standard under 750cc is a $1500 or less bike, unless its really rare to find an unmolested one.

[sledge]

Again.....I agree with the above. Another classic case of someone thinking the GS5 is something special and desirable!

Bikes are only worth what someone will pay for them....end of!

As many know I am not in a part of the world where the $ is the currency and I accept that markets differ.

Over here its the £ and today 2200 of your $ is worth 1738.52 of our £

Moving on......the notion that someone would pay £1738.52 for a 25 yr old GS5 is........amusing to say the least, regardless of which country it was actually in. Unless of course it was 22ct gold plated!

If I had that sort of money I would go for this 13 yr old example....AND expect a discount for no PX AND a min 3 month warranty AND 12 months MOT!!
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201703303865495?model=GS500&make=SUZUKI&sort=sponsored&postcode=m252rs&advertising-location=at_bikes&radius=1501&page=1

BTW.....if someone really does want a 25yr old GS5......send me £1738.52 via PayPal. I will find you one here in the UK AND pay for shipping AND still turn a decent profit 

[The Buddha]

You can ride it till it has 50k and still sell it for 600 (complete with mismatched body work and dented tank).
That's where you get the value from this and most other bikes.
I also don't think any bike can be turned for a profit really. Even wrecked bikes sell for their end value - the cost of parts to fix it.
Cool.
Buddha.

[J_Walker]

Again.....I agree with the above. Another classic case of someone thinking the GS5 is something special and desirable!

Bikes are only worth what someone will pay for them....end of!

As many know I am not in a part of the world where the $ is the currency and I accept that markets differ.

Over here its the £ and today 2200 of your $ is worth 1738.52 of our £

Moving on......the notion that someone would pay £1738.52 for a 25 yr old GS5 is........amusing to say the least, regardless of which country it was actually in. Unless of course it was 22ct gold plated!

If I had that sort of money I would go for this 13 yr old example....AND expect a discount for no PX AND a min 3 month warranty AND 12 months MOT!!
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201703303865495?model=GS500&make=SUZUKI&sort=sponsored&postcode=m252rs&advertising-location=at_bikes&radius=1501&page=1

BTW.....if someone really does want a 25yr old GS5......send me £1738.52 via PayPal. I will find you one here in the UK AND pay for shipping AND still turn a decent profit 

you want a giggle, spend 20 minutes here.

https://orlando.craigslist.org/search/mcy 

[sledge]

Let's get this thread back on track.

"Am I spending to much???"

Assuming you want to make something at the end....yes!
In fact you have already blown it and are now so far in the red you wont claw anything back. Unless of course someone comes along who DOES think the GS5 is something special and desirable. If you are experienced in restoration for profit I am surprised you
have allowed yourself to reach this position but.....well that's something else.

Assuming you are doing it for kicks....no!
Of course not, its your money and you can spend it how you like. If you went professional with the paint and cosmetics, an engine rebuild, all new OEM parts, top of the range tyres etc you would be will into 4 figures.. The real question is how much am I prepared to loose?..........although restorers prefer the term 'pay for the experience'

[gamdon24]

Perhaps I SHOULD HAVE Picked a different subject for this post.  All I was looking for was an objective opinion on how much is too much to spend on a project,  YES I am VERY aware of the low re-sale value on this particular bike.  I have learned that restoring ANY sort of vehicle RARELY nets you much of a profit if that is what you are looking for.  YES I am very much enjoying the process of getting back into restorations again.  I never thought I would be able to get back into it like I was. 

I believe all my effort with this has greatly increased my mental abilities beyond what I ever expected them to achieve since my injury.

Let's just agree that what I asked at the very least sparked a good bit of discussion both ON AND OFF TOPIC!   I guess i'll be sure to select a better subject for my posts in the future! 

Thanks to all of you who actually did provide some objective opinions on the original question.  "we would now like to return you to the original program"

[mr72]

haha.

Let me say this about "restoring" a "cheap" bike like this, I have found without question if you like restoring and tinkering on a vehicle as a hobby a GS500 sure is a cheap way to do it, comparatively.

You pretty much throw your money away restoring any vehicle. It has to be a labor of love, or the journey you are paying for rather than the destination, something like that.