PSA for florida riders! Learn from my pain.

[Toogoofy317]

There was SPACE IN FRONT of me, that's what I'm saying,

OK, I stand corrected. I didn't catch that from your initial description.

Just check my summary: A driver two cars ahead of you was doing a U-turn. The driver in front of you was "on their phone" and still managed to safely avoid hitting the U-turning driver. You, in the back, lost control and crashed trying to avoid hitting the car directly in front of you. Is that right?

Regardless of all of the posturing and bluster, if this is accurate above, then the reality has to be that either a) you were following too closely for you to be able to make a safe stop without losing control (because hard evidence suggests you couldn't make a safe stop without losing control) or b) you are unable to make a safe stop at any distance. I think b) is very unlikely, so I suggested a).

I think your definition of tailgating is off.

I didn't say 'tailgating', you did.

so a hard brake was the correct call, now the reason why the tire ducked out from under the bike in a lock up + straight line is beyond me at this point.

For whatever reason, combination of state of repair of the motorcycle, your reaction time and skills, etc., you couldn't make a safe stop without losing control. I see you want to first blame the other driver for having the gall to not keep moving, then you want to blame the motorcycle for not reacting as you wanted it to when you got hard on the front brake. But the simple truth is that if you had allowed more following distance then you wouldn't have had to pull enough brake to lock the tire in order to keep from hitting the U-turning driver.

You are right, attempting to stop was the right call. The tire "ducked" is because you have no fork brace. It would have tried to turn right in a hard stop no matter what, especially if you hadn't locked. Attempting to ride the bike on public roads with no fork brace was probably part of what made this change from a scary skid-to-stop where you remained upright to a crash.

Now go ahead and argue the fact that 450 feet at 45MPH is tailgating, I'd love to hear this.

Pretty sure I didn't use the word 'tailgating'. And I agree that this should have been plenty of stopping distance if you were truly 450 feet behind the next car while moving. I don't believe you were actually 450 feet behind the car in front of you.

The fact you decide to say "not a personal attack" but go around saying "YUP ITS ALL YOUR FAULT" is comical.

No, this wasn't personal, it was just plainly factual. But I sensed that you may not be able to take it as such which is why I qualified. My guess is the LEO didn't cite you because your actions didn't harm another driver or property. If you had hit a sign or another car etc. then you probably would have gotten a ticket.

in this case the lady making a U-turn is what started the motion of events that lead me up to dumping my bike,

Seriously? Do they not have right-of-way laws in FL?

What started the events that led to your crash was:
1) You pulled too much brake and locked the tire. There are numerous things that contribute to the potential of locking the tire but the plain reality is that the only variable under any human's control is how hard you pulled the lever, and without ABS it is possible to pull it hard enough to lock and that will not only extend the braking distance greatly but also increase the potential to lose control.
2) You are riding with no fork brace. This is why when you locked the tire it tried to steer right.
3) You lost control while trying to stop, due to the condition of the motorcycle (fork brace, tires, etc.?) and locking the tire.

The other driver's actions had nothing to do with it, because it's an ordinary and expected part of driving that you will have to be able to stop the vehicle in response to ordinary things in the road: driver making a left turn or U-turn, an animal or pedestrian moves into your path, etc. And then there's the range of "defensive driving" where other drivers will do wrong things (run a stop sign, change lanes without looking, etc.) and you need to be able to react safely to save yourself from a wreck that is someone else's fault.

In this case, no matter how you slice it, or how bad you feel about it, the reality is that everything that led to this accident was on you. I agree if you had 450 feet of following distance (which would be truly extraordinary) then I was wrong about following distance being the main problem. If you can't stop from 45 mph in 450 feet then something else is seriously wrong. So it's hard to believe you were actually 450 feet behind the car you were following (I mean, they had to stop too, right? they had some stopping distance too from when you saw the brake light).

You saw the brake light in front of you, that car was stopping hard so they slowed while you reacted some quantity of time before you began to slow. So let's say they slowed from 45-25 before you even touched the brake. By this time your following distance had been partly consumed enough that your reaction was to pull a LOT of brake to avoid hitting that stopped car, and it was enough to lock the front tire and that's when you lost control for various reasons. But the truth is, a little bit more following distance might have changed this entirely.

for anyone with an ounce of common sense could tell you the accident was caused by the person who was making the U-turn.

You are wrong, plain and simple.

But I'm sure you can find others to agree with you, and they will also be wrong. This happens to be a very dangerous opinion. Next time this happens to you, if the bike skids in a straight line rather than folding over then you may wind up skidding flat into the car in front of you.

Motorcycles have generally longer stopping distances than cars. 25-year-old motorcycles with no ABS have far longer stopping distances than modern ABS-equipped cars. For this reason alone you need to have much greater following distances when riding a GS500 vs. what would be safe in a car. Added to that is the risk to your person if you err on the side of following too close. That's why, for me, I choose to leave huge following distances. I don't trust my ability to keep the bike from doing just what yours did in an emergency stop, and I don't want to test it.

And I am truly sorry you got hurt, and I sincerely hope you heal up quickly and get everything back on the road again. I also hope you learn whatever you can from this. And I'm going to add you to my ignore list, and that is personal.

you're just being a subtle troll at this point.
There's criticism, then there's word play, then there's picking every last damn thing apart. And you did the latter here. you're arguing this just to argue it, for what reason? Because you weren't there, and you weren't in my shoes at the time. You believe all you want, but for you to argue that my "skill" wasn't enough was beyond insulting.

I ride EVERY GOD DAMN DAY. FOR THE PAST 7 YEARS! COLD, HOT, RAIN OR SHINE. DOESN'T MATTER. I have 500 mile days, over 300 hours of 2up riding, Drag racing on two wheels and track experience on two wheels, I've taken the advance riding courses. and one beginner off-road dirt biking course.

So piss off. The fact you defend and justify the retard making a u-turn literally makes you no better, so go break YOUR face on a guard rail too.

edit: my bike is OEM, because the stock fork brace sucks, THAT's My fault right? Not the engineers over at Suzuki? you're just adding words here to pad your argument, you could of simply said, like @user11235813 did, and I would of never even responded to you as I read what he had to say and choose to listen to it or not.

I concur, as a driver and rider in Central Florida that happens all the time if that was outlawed traffic would be a complete standstill around the theme parks. My moto is "What's the worst possible thing that can happen and in Orlando it will happen." I'm not very sure how you were able to maintain 450ft space in front of you because traffic seriously does not allow it. If you're on a bike they will literally come into your lane with you in it. So, that's impressive.

What I'm still not understanding is how the first car was your problem. The second one that stopped quickly yes. I'm also thinking since you didn't add the second tires screeching that they were able to safely pull off the stop and didn't hit the first car? You are quite lucky as you should have been ticketed had you hit the white car or someone was injured. You hit someone from behind it's ALWAYS your fault. But, since we are a no fault state it will likely increase your insurance rates at the very least.

Heal up soon

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[qcbaker]

Do me a favor, and take a picture of yourself moving some goal post.

At this rate your post is just making me laugh.

Everything bolded is wrong, I'm not going to tell you how its wrong, but clearly your reading comprehension is lacking. because all of it has be addressed already.

You write like an internet troll for sure. Just writing broad assuming statements that roughly fall inline with the topic at hand, but at the same time none of it is relevant to the topic, you throw just enough subtle low key insults to piss someone off while saying "Not to make you mad or anything" to deflect the focus off yourself. acting like you're the one being nice or the bigger man, while focusing the attention on the person you've pissed off to make it seem like they're acting irrational.

Use a straw man. Find or create a seeming element of your opponent's argument which you can easily knock down to make yourself look good and the opponent to look bad. Either make up an issue you may safely imply exists based on your interpretation of the opponent/opponent arguments/situation, or select the weakest aspect of the weakest charges. Amplify their significance and destroy them in a way which appears to debunk all the charges, real and fabricated alike, while actually avoiding discussion of the real issues.

Lol, how is literally anything I said a strawman? I didn't misrepresent your argument in any way. And moving the goalposts? That was my first reply to you. How can I move the goalposts if we never established any in the first place?

I'm not trying to troll you, I'm not trying to insult you, I'm trying to have a conversation with you about the factors that could have contributed to your crash so that you, and everyone who reads this thread, can avoid this type of crash in the future. If you think I'm wrong about something, either explain your point or quote the part of the thread where you said it previously.

And if you don't want to have this conversation, that's fine. But if that's the case, just don't reply.

[mr72]

I'm trying to have a conversation with you about the factors that could have contributed to your crash so that you, and everyone who reads this thread, can avoid this type of crash in the future.

This is the key point here in bold. The subject line says "PSA...". This forum attracts beginners, and the forum shows a responsibility to encourage beginning riders, especially on how to stay safe. A big rant about how U-turns should be illegal doesn't help keep new riders safe; a fair analysis of what caused a wreck and what the rider could do to prevent it does.

[Kiwingenuity]

Wrecking a bike and getting seriously hurt sucks for anyone - and I still think of the instructors words.. "assume you're invisible, and they are all out to get you".. definitely hoping you get better soon.

There are some grade A muppets out there - and the unpredictability of other road users knows no bounds.. I have had stacks of room in front of me and it runs out fast - especially on a bike with no ABS..

It's a learning curve staying safe out there - and for anyone who wants to get a feel for unpredictable drivers out there to possibly improve some defensive driving observational skills - I highly recommend dashcams Australia for some enlightening entertainment and gratuitous use of the F word.. 

Edit - best one I have found so far.. - go to about 00:43.. priceless..

[user11235813]

This thread is a learning experience...in more ways than one.

It's like the old days of the interwebs, circa 20 years ago. Sort of goes with our retro GS!

[Endopotential]

There are some grade A muppets out there - and the unpredictability of other road users knows no bounds.. I have had stacks of room in front of me and it runs out fast - especially on a bike with no ABS..

Yeah, there's definitely something wrong on that video.  Everyone's driving on the wrong side of the road!