So what are the really bad motorcycles out there?

[Endopotential]

Every bike mag or web post is nearly breathless in their review of just about every bike out there.  No doubt in part because they have to pay homage to their ad sponsors.

And forums are biased because most folks there obviously like their bikes.  Heck, even though we grumble about the cheesium nuts and bolts on our GS, most of us still love the utility and dependability of our humble bikes.

So wondering what are the really bad bike models out there, based on your personal experience.  What's the Yugo or Gremlin equivalent in the motorcycle world?

[Kookas]

Every bike mag or web post is nearly breathless in their review of just about every bike out there.  No doubt in part because they have to pay homage to their ad sponsors.

And forums are biased because most folks there obviously like their bikes.  Heck, even though we grumble about the cheesium nuts and bolts on our GS, most of us still love the utility and dependability of our humble bikes.

So wondering what are the really bad bike models out there, based on your personal experience.  What's the Yugo or Gremlin equivalent in the motorcycle world?

I mean, pretty much anything Chinese is a good start, although I've heard good about some Lexmotos.

[qcbaker]

The GS500, for sure. Man, what a garbage bike...

On a serious note, the Buell Blast is a pretty near-universally hated bike. Even Erik Buell himself detests that bike. I own one and I personally don't hate it as much as everyone else seems to, but its an easy choice between it and my GS lol. I originally bought it for my girlfriend and initially she seemed to like it, but after getting to ride a Grom at our BRC session, she's realized that the Blast isn't really what she's looking for. I'll probably sell it next spring.

[Endopotential]

What was wrong with the Blast?

I have a Buell XB9 Lightning which I mostly like.  The rumble of a V-twin is awesome, and the low end torque is a hoot.  The suspension is really nice; that front ZTL perimeter brake is super strong.  The clunky transmission sucks though.  Also feels much more top heavy than our GS.

The "Trilogy of Tech" on the newer Buells is really cool - gas inside the frame; oil inside the swingarm; that awesome ZTL brake.  Plus bulletproof belt drive.
https://www.adandp.media/articles/buell-motorcycle-engineering-innovation-and-dedication

[MaxD]

What surprises me is how the best vehicle brands can sometimes make bad mistakes.  Honda's new CB500 line are universally acclaimed and loved by their owners, but in the introductory year of 2013 a lot of owners reported really excessive oil burn for a new engine, which Honda tried for a long time to defend as "normal".  I don't know if they ever owned up to it.  The Harley Evolution engine saved the company, but it has been reported to have a real problem with (I believe) its valve cam system that can ruin the engine.  My 2007 Toyota Camry has a poor piston lubrication problem such that instead of going 200,000 miles like Toyotas normally do, it is good for about 120,000 miles (mine has been burning a lot of oil starting at about 70k miles).  I prefer gently used vehicles a few years old because you can get them for less than half price (I paid $2k for my GS500 with 1600 miles on it, and $7k for a $21k new Miata with 16k miles on it), and there has been time for the problems to become known. 

[The Buddha]

Bad - as in dumbass poor design/implementation - sadly each bike/make has its ups and downs.
GS - IMHO - sheietty quality of steel parts, and that retarded clutch push rod running across the motor as well as a few other brain fart moments.
The vulcan 750 - alternator/regulator combo that blew up and you had to take the motor out of the frame to get the alternator out. Nightmare carbs too, but awesome neutral steering and shaft dr and hydraulic valves.
Savage 650 - nightmare steering - yea for such a small bike it steered like a wheel barrow. But super light and everything is easy to work on. Oh yea stupid cam chain tensioner.
My SCR950/bolt - nightmare to get the battery out, and heavy as a mofo and rather gutless inspite of 950 cc. However belt drive and million $$$ looks (SCR not bolt).
The list goes on and on and on.
Cool.
Buddha.

[Sarasi]

The ER5N feels like the frame is made from spaghetti, according to my boyfriend, and he'll definitely come out and say he thinks it's a dangerous bike. 

For me, I dislike all the tech that gets put in the newer bikes. I did a trip with a guy with an R6 once, who ended up along the side of the road with a "no fuel" message. He had plenty of fuel, but the sensor was faulty and registered empty, thus the bike wouldn't start up. I'd quickly be done with that sort of stuff to be honest.

[J_Walker]

I've owned a lot of Suzukis, and I hate to say most Suzukis.

The problem I have with Suzuki, is more on the electrical side of things - they just have REALLY crappy ideas as to what good electrical is. They're still using OEM electrical tape on 2018s! the routing is really garbage. the connectors are garbage. the gauge sizes are garbage. and it seems to be the actual electrical boards aren't meant for the environments they're gonna be put in. hot + wet.

I get what Suzuki does. Cheap and fast. good in that respect, but for any length of time they really suffer. And I understand the crappy electrical is pretty universal across many brands of bike.. but Suzuki just takes it to a whole new "cheap" level.

also Suzuki never makes recalls.

[cbrfxr67]

cbrf2!  What an annoying turd!

[J_Walker]

cbrf2!  What an annoying turd!

You don't like your cam chain tensioner failing randomly? lol

[MaxD]

Here's a link with a detailed explanation of the engine destroying Harley twin-cam problem:
http://blog.jpcycles.com/i-love-harley-davidson-but-you-must-know-this/

From this page: "The problem is the design of the cam chain system.  It uses plastic "shoes" riding on the cam chains that can (and do) wear out. Harley has made some changes in later model bikes, but even with the new hydraulic tensioning system, it is not a true fix.  What is the problem?  The shoes rub against the two chains and the plastic shoes wear out.  When they wear in extreme cases, there will be metal to metal contact and this grinding creates metal shavings that can result in a catastrophic engine failure. If not caught soon enough, this can be so bad that the entire engine can be destroyed; cams, pistons, crankshaft and even engine cases broken.  It is a wickedly serious possible engine problem.  Be aware... it can fail as soon 15,000 miles (in extreme cases).  Even the newer hydraulic system can fail at 50,000 miles or less."

My dentist has a custom Harley with over $30k in it.  Hate to make that kind of investment in a bike and then have this happen. 

[The Buddha]

BTW ninja 500 and its predecessor motors (the KZ440 etc) as well as my rather over built in all the wrong ways Yamaha bolt has the cam chain tensioner on the wrong side. The tension side ... Dumba$$$ idea.
Cool.
Buddha.

[J_Walker]

My dentist has a custom Harley with over $30k in it.  Hate to make that kind of investment in a bike and then have this happen.

it's easy to have 30k into a harley, Exhaust, Seat, Headlights, airbrush paint job with skulls or naked girls...... and 2 oil changes a year. that's your 30k.

[philward]

My brother bought a new Hyosung from a dealership.  As a first time rider I think he got caught up in the idea of having something from new with no previous history of abuse.

I bought a low-mileage GS for considerably less. (about 2/3 the price)

On his bike within a year there was rust all over the place.  Even under the chromed parts.  The quality of the steel must have been pretty bad.

OTOH I rode my GS for 3 years then sold it for the price I bought it for.  So I think a few lessons were learned there: the obvious economics of new vs second hand; Korean vs Japanese.

Other than that when I bought my new bike (CBF1000) the first service was 'free' and included the use of a loan bike while it was in the shop.  They handed me a CBF250 and I have to say it was an awful, cheap feeling bike.  It really didn't feel good at all tipping into a corner.  And I've ridden some very cheap old bikes (ct110, 80s trials bikes, scooters) and this was the only one that felt truly terrible.

[J_Walker]

Hyosung

Thing with hyosung, is its buying a harbor freight motor, instead of a honda. its basically a copy of other motors for a fraction of its price, the 650 is pretty much an SV650 engine. and it's one of those. "just take everything apart and loctite all the bolts" quality. it can be made good, by time you got it there however you could of bought the real thing.

but we all got to start somewhere.. Frankly I didn't have a good opinion on Kia until recently.

[Endopotential]

This is entertaining and educational!  What else can you ask for? 

Keep it coming!

[Watcher]

The problem I have with Suzuki, is more on the electrical side of things.

I order more stators for GSXRs than all other makes combined.
Chew on that for a minute.

I'm also really surprised in Suzuki when it comes to the GSX250R.  When they teased it I was like "300s are the norm, now, this is too little too late, but I'll humor them."  Having been around them, they're junk.  They use some really oddball tire sizes, the engine is lifted from a GW250 and makes crap power even for a 250, and it just seems really cheaply put together.
It's obvious they aren't selling, either, as Suzuki is offering a factory incentive graphics kit of your choice and I hear reports of dealerships selling them for like $2000 under MSRP, which is nearly 50% off!

[mr72]

I order more stators for GSXRs than all other makes combined.
Chew on that for a minute.

I have nothing really meaningful to add to this thread so I'm reading it with interest. But one thing I will point out here is about probabilities and statistics. GSXRs have to be the most common sport bikes out there, even though I am too lazy to look up the statistics. And I would speculate that due to price and abundance on the used market (supply>demand) they are more often owned by beginners and "squids" than others. So it may be a combination of ubiquity and probability of abuse leading to at least a high exposure rate of a weak part.

I remember after I sold my 240Z there were a few years there that 240Zs had the reputation of being always broken rustbuckets but once their rarity priced them out of the reach of high school kids suddenly they became reliable vintage GT cars akin to 911s. Point is, sometimes the owners are responsible for reputation of quality. Someone who spends $20K on a BMW motorcycle is more likely to have money to take care of it, someone who buys a $4K NEW Honda and has to get a loan to pay for it likely can't stay on top of maintenance or might not even know what to look for. So when they are each 10 years old the Honda is going to be "junk" due to neglect while the BMW is going to be nice due to fastidious maintenance. That says nothing about quality.

I'm also really surprised in Suzuki when it comes to the GSX250R.  When they teased it I was like "300s are the norm, now, this is too little too late, but I'll humor them."  Having been around them, they're junk.  They use some really oddball tire sizes, the engine is lifted from a GW250 and makes crap power even for a 250, and it just seems really cheaply put together.
It's obvious they aren't selling, either, as Suzuki is offering a factory incentive graphics kit of your choice and I hear reports of dealerships selling them for like $2000 under MSRP, which is nearly 50% off!

Yet, I wonder if we'll come back here in 10 years and find that the "junk" Suzukis wind up being bulletproof and beloved by type of people who dig our GS500s and the R3s and Ninja 300s wind up being clapped out high maintenance beaters by then. Again, who buys these cheap bikes? I kind of figure if someone is going to pick the fastest or fastest-looking one then maybe the slower or more pedestrian ones will get less abuse over time... kind of like how Volvos in the 80s and 90s had a reputation of durability... nobody who bought them new would dare to rev them over 4K or put the pedal on the floor.

Anyway, I'm not interested in that Suzuki and I'm sure they're a lot of no-fun to ride and old tech but maybe Suzuki's experience with the GS500 actually predicts they know what they are doing here.

I will agree on my GS500 most of the annoying problems have been with electrical parts. I've replaced them, when necessary, with non-Suzuki parts with requisite mods. I guess I don't trust their electrics either.

[qcbaker]

What was wrong with the Blast?

Personally, I think its kinda uncomfortable to ride. The seat (admittedly, its the lower seat so that may have something to do with it) is thin and doesn't really provide much support, which wouldn't be too much of an issue, but the riding position is basically straight upright so all your weight is on your butt rather than your legs. That seat, combined with how much the bike vibrates (a 500cc single likes to thump lol), makes it a pretty rough ride for anything longer than like 45 minutes. And this may be just because the tires on mine are basically shot, but there's a lot of resistance when turning. I can feel the handlebars pushing back when I countersteer into a turn. No other bike I've ridden has felt like that. Lastly, the transmission is CLUNKY. And the shift lever is made for someone with feet 3 times the size of a normal human. Its so long that in order to use it, I basically have to have my heel on the peg. I can shift my GS with the ball of my foot on the peg and my toe hits the shift lever. I adjusted the Blast's lever as much as I could but its still not ideal. I feel like the Blast is a bike that nobody on the design team really wanted to build. It feels built by commitee rather than a product of novel design, like other Buells.

But, overall it does handle pretty well for what it is. And the single cylinder/carb makes it really easy to work on. Plus, the auto-enricher is nice since you don't have to mess with a choke. Its not that bad of a bike, but there are much better machines out there.

I have a Buell XB9 Lightning which I mostly like.  The rumble of a V-twin is awesome, and the low end torque is a hoot.  The suspension is really nice; that front ZTL perimeter brake is super strong.  The clunky transmission sucks though.  Also feels much more top heavy than our GS.

The "Trilogy of Tech" on the newer Buells is really cool - gas inside the frame; oil inside the swingarm; that awesome ZTL brake.  Plus bulletproof belt drive.
https://www.adandp.media/articles/buell-motorcycle-engineering-innovation-and-dedication

Yeah, the XB series are really cool. Buells in general are very cool bikes, and most of them are great to ride, I've heard. The Blast is just the odd one out.

[qcbaker]

I order more stators for GSXRs than all other makes combined.
Chew on that for a minute.

I have nothing really meaningful to add to this thread so I'm reading it with interest. But one thing I will point out here is about probabilities and statistics. GSXRs have to be the most common sport bikes out there, even though I am too lazy to look up the statistics. And I would speculate that due to price and abundance on the used market (supply>demand) they are more often owned by beginners and "squids" than others. So it may be a combination of ubiquity and probability of abuse leading to at least a high exposure rate of a weak part.

I remember after I sold my 240Z there were a few years there that 240Zs had the reputation of being always broken rustbuckets but once their rarity priced them out of the reach of high school kids suddenly they became reliable vintage GT cars akin to 911s. Point is, sometimes the owners are responsible for reputation of quality. Someone who spends $20K on a BMW motorcycle is more likely to have money to take care of it, someone who buys a $4K NEW Honda and has to get a loan to pay for it likely can't stay on top of maintenance or might not even know what to look for. So when they are each 10 years old the Honda is going to be "junk" due to neglect while the BMW is going to be nice due to fastidious maintenance. That says nothing about quality.

You may be on to something, I'll be sure to let you guys know how the electrical system holds up when I get my GSX-R lol.