Kicked out of MST class for being "unsafe"??

[Bluesmudge]

Sounds normal to me. I took my MSF class in Washington State. Any 2 serious mess ups in the class portion and you are out. ANY mess up in the actual tested portion (even touching a painted line) and you are out. Nobody in my class who dropped their bike at any point passed the class. We saw ~50% pass rate.

I think its fine that they are that strict. Some people have to take the class two or three times. Some people find out they are not cut out of the coordination required on a motorcycle.
That said, its pretty simple stuff. My wife passed the class on her first go without ever having ridden a motorcycle or driven a manual transmission car.

[mr72]

Agree with Bluesmudge here. In my class, two people elected not to continue the class after the first day on the range, but nobody got kicked out. Some folks are intimidated and stress out trying to learn to ride a motorcycle, and frankly it's best for them to stand down either voluntarily or not before they wind up hurting themselves.

The libertarian in me is opposed entirely to the legal requirement in TX to take this class, rather than simply qualifying by taking a test. But it's valuable for beginners for sure. If you get booted out of the MSF class, then you are endangering yourself and others by getting on a motorcycle on public roads. The more alarming thing though is an arrogant attitude that rejects entirely the concept of learning like seems to be shown here. Everyone begins as inexperienced and unskilled, but you choose whether you can be taught.

[qcbaker]

The thing that really worried me about my class is that even though basically everyone passed, there were only a couple people in the class who I thought looked actually ready to ride on the street. And there's the extra worry that those people who looked like they just barely passed were talking about how now they could go get/ride the Harley they wanted. I don't really think that the BRC adequately prepared them to ride a 1750cc Road King after watching them struggle to maintain control of a 125cc Kawasaki Eliminator...

[mr72]

The thing that really worried me about my class is that even though basically everyone passed, there were only a couple people in the class who I thought looked actually ready to ride on the street. ... I don't really think that the BRC adequately prepared them to ride a 1750cc Road King after watching them struggle to maintain control of a 125cc Kawasaki Eliminator...

I agree absolutely! That's why I said, if you get booted from the BRC, you are likely a real danger riding on the road. But passing the BRC doesn't necessarily ensure you are ready, but at least you have had *some* instruction. Certainly failing to achieve that level of competence is a sure sign that the road is not for you.

What's terrifying is the number of people who ride on the road without even considering taking a BRC class or any kind of rider education at all. My daughter lives in College Station which is pretty much 75% or more Texas A&M students and the number of 19 year old morons riding motorcycles with no helmets and no regard for safety or the law is nuts. Couple this with the tens of thousands of unskilled drivers of cars and to me it's shocking that anyone can survive four years driving there. And don't get me started about the bicycles...

[Kilted1]

Thinking back about my class.  Everyone passed.  There was one guy who maybe shouldn't have.  A retired doctor, by far the oldest in the class and the only one who rode his own (scooter) instead of using the provided Yamaha 250s.  This was a level 2 class for folks with at least some experience rather than the basic "I've never been on a motorcycle but want to".  I don't know what his issue was, hard of hearing maybe?  Had a hard time following instructions and didn't seem to be fully in control of his little Honda.  But they passed him anyway.   

[Watcher]

The thing that really worried me about my class is that even though basically everyone passed, there were only a couple people in the class who I thought looked actually ready to ride on the street. ... I don't really think that the BRC adequately prepared them to ride a 1750cc Road King after watching them struggle to maintain control of a 125cc Kawasaki Eliminator...

I agree absolutely! That's why I said, if you get booted from the BRC, you are likely a real danger riding on the road. But passing the BRC doesn't necessarily ensure you are ready, but at least you have had *some* instruction. Certainly failing to achieve that level of competence is a sure sign that the road is not for you.

I think a better system would see the BRC as issuing a permit and then return for a BRC2 for an endorsement.  Or better yet, return for an ARC for the license.
And for this very reason.
I've passed students who, for the sake of not making this an essay, got "lucky" during the exam.  Some of these kids talked about getting superbikes and could barely not kill themselves on a 250.
Rather than straight up call them out on incompetence in front of the whole class, in our end of day debreif we very highly recommend coming back for a BRC2/ARC and even go as far as suggesting if they want some extra practice to come back and "range aid" (toss cones around and schlep bikes in return for saddle time during the exercises) or to simply call us and talk to us if they want extra help.

Europe by far has a better licensing system IMHO, but I think it'll never happen here in the US purely for political reasons.

[barry905]

The thing that really worried me about my class is that even though basically everyone passed, there were only a couple people in the class who I thought looked actually ready to ride on the street. And there's the extra worry that those people who looked like they just barely passed were talking about how now they could go get/ride the Harley they wanted. I don't really think that the BRC adequately prepared them to ride a 1750cc Road King after watching them struggle to maintain control of a 125cc Kawasaki Eliminator...

+1 to that.

I started riding back in the '60 in the UK. There was no basic training then, but there was a limit on the size of bike you could ride of 250cc. Also you needed to put "L" plates on to let other drivers know that you weren't experienced. That way until you demonstrated a level of competence (by passing a test) you could not get on a more powerful bike. There was no rider training available (that I was aware of). When I moved to Ontario I only had to take the test, but by then I was an experienced (?) rider.

I don't know these free courses that you are talking about, but if they are anything like the MSF courses here then they are definitely a good thing. The people running them are doing it for the benefit of the students and are not on some power trip or just out to make money.

[Watcher]

I don't know these free courses that you are talking about, but if they are anything like the MSF courses here then they are definitely a good thing. The people running them are doing it for the benefit of the students and are not on some power trip or just out to make money.

That they are.

Unless you're high "up the chain" and in administrative positions you can't even make a living being an MSF instructor.

To put it in numbers I make about $250 a weekend I teach.  On average I work about 16 hours that weekend, and it's all time spent schlepping bikes, tossing and collecting cones, "herding cats," occasionally dealing with frustrated (and/or frustrating) students, all while having gotten up at the ass-crack of dawn for travel allotment, being out all day in usually less than ideal weather conditions, and frequently forfeiting my lunch.

Some other interesting aspects, the class to get certified is 80-hours long, you need to coach regularly in order to maintain your certification, and you also need to personally develop your skills to maintain the certification (in other words, you need to take MSF classes to be an MSF coach).  It's really not worth the time and effort to be an MSF RiderCoach unless you're specifically interested in the mentorship aspect of it.

[cbrfxr67]

"It's really not worth the time and effort to be an MSF RiderCoach,..."

I considered that while watching my instructor sweating balls trying to direct a lady on her scooter for the forgot how many times,... He had God bless-ed patience for sure. 

[spitty]

The thing that really worried me about my class is that even though basically everyone passed, there were only a couple people in the class who I thought looked actually ready to ride on the street. ... I don't really think that the BRC adequately prepared them to ride a 1750cc Road King after watching them struggle to maintain control of a 125cc Kawasaki Eliminator...

I felt the same about my own abilities after passing the MSF course on the second try. When I bought my GS500F the previous owner was nice enough to trailer the bike over to my place with a full tank. I ended up just riding the thing around the block in my neighborhood for several hours before even trying the main streets. There was no way I would have been able to safely ride the bike from his place on the highway, over the bridge across the bay and back to my home.

Of course, now I can ride anywhere I want no problems. I just needed the extra saddle time to prepare myself.